So what would the new expansion have?
Here are some of mine, and I'll add more good ones as you all present them
1. CAMPAIGN!!!
I have a few friends who haven't picked up Sins due to the lack of co-op campaign. I would love to have a campaign.... but I realize that it is a stretch.
Maybe a campaign that teaches the new players all the mechanics of the game better? Nothing too huge.
2. More empire building options.
A. Planet development
I love the design of Sins, but I wish that planets had more function to them. Maybe a research tree devoted just to planet upgrading and development. Right now the planet bonus system doesn't seem to give much to where it would be best. Maybe implement a system that you can research some planet bonuses for economic worlds, research worlds, culture worlds and production worlds
B. Black Market, resource trading depth.
Something should be done in this category to break the "I have more planets so my production is better" staleness. It shouldn't be just about the numbers, it should be the COUNTERS. That is the design I see in Sins, strategy and counter-strategy.
C. Planet variety.
The DS mod and others have introduced many new planet types, and I think they should be made a permanent part of the game. There is no reason to not add more variety.
D. New Logistic structure. (added by Darvin3)
As Darvin3 stated, logistics are only tactical at the start of the game, by the mid-late, it digresses into trade ports or refineries only..... Need some variety, something that has a bonus that stacks.
E. Embassy. (added by ZombieRus5)
Buildable by Envoys. Like a starbase but for diplomacy and economy, not defense
3. Optimize.
A. 2 GB limit.
If it is possible, can the engine be optimized to run on multicore?
B. Optimization project
The team for the optimization project has fixed some bugs, and optimized many meshes, textures and files. Maybe use their free work to help?
C. Ship movement. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Large fleets still take very wide arcs to maneuver. This is space, turning on a time is possible, and strategic.
D. Empire Tree (added by MindsEye)
Put transition ships at the BOTTOM! No more jumping trees please.
E. Auto Docking. (added by myfist0)
Strike craft stay docked unless an enemy is present. Or maybe add a condition that fighters only auto attack when X number of strikecraft/lrms are present, and bombers auto attack when there are very few enemy fighters left.
F. Zoom model reduction. (added by myfist0)
Zoom out and use lower level models. Zoom in, higher quality models. Simple no?
4. Multiplayer.
A. Smurfing. (added by Stant123)
Nobody seems to like it, and it harms newcomers. ID's should all be tied to a main account. Multiple users on one account can be used for friend purposes or new tactic strats, but seriously, no little blue men....
B. Lobbies. (added by Stant123)
The split lobby is very cumbersome, and should be reworked if possible.
C. Downloadables. (added by DirtySanchezz)
Custom maps should be able to be downloaded from the game lobby itself. Streamlining the multiplayer experience will get more people online.
D. Multiple Start options. (added by MindsEye)
Different quick start options, Yes! Also with more Pirate options to play with. Have a start with more than one planet, and one with a small fleet and colonizer. Trim some time off the game.
E. Multiple AI Start options. (added by ZippyIp)
Set pirate strength and AI surrender limits
5. Mechanics.
A. Fleeting down. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Fleeting down to gain resources is a good idea. Paying again for the upgrade will prevent abuse... I like it!
B. Invasions. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Invasions instead of bombings. Take longer, but retaining more of the planet infrastructure.... Thoughts on this one?
C. Adjustable fleet patterns.
Have more options to fleet design. Have a skirmisher fleet (LRMs in front instead of HC) an actual battle ball (Fleet centers around capital ships) and a wedge, cause everyone needs to be wedged from time to time...
D. Ship division. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Have a button or hotkey for equally dividing fleets from one large one into 2 smaller ones. Have options for how to divide fleets, tying into the fleet patterns above
E. Captains. (added by many!)
Experience tied to a captain rather than a ship, with the captain being transferable. (I'm not so sure on this one...)
F. New Capital Ship research tree. (added by ZombisRus5)
Add more HP, damage, antimatter and abilities. upgrade targets per bank of weapons, and increase weapons
Possibly customize capital ships?
6. New material
A. New support cruiser. (added by Darvin3)
Each faction should get a new cruiser to aid in balance issues. Advent have no answer to shield mitigation; Tec have no mass disable options or capital ship protection measures; Vassari have no star base killing options other than strike craft, which limits fleet dimensionality.
B. New race. (added by many)
Simple, new race! space slugs or cybernetic robots anyone?
0. Ideas that probably will not work, but do deserve mention...
A. SuperCaps. (added by Qu4r)
The balance of the game is still a little off, and I don't think adding Super Capital ships will help. However, the Idea itself is very good.
B. Cloaking. (added by ShotmanMaslo, onomastikon)
Cloaking is a very popular mechanic that people want, but the way Sins does it is not practical. Ships simply phase out, but are still physically visible, just not attackable. That is not stealth, and shouldn't really be used extensively.
C. Full ship customization
Customize each individual ship, modular method. Not sure it is "Sins" material.
AND - lift the hard code limits for the modding community. Maybe let the AI be edited as well
- Give the AI more personalities to choose from. A heavy LRM spammer, or bomber spammer AI would be a challenge!
- Longer names for ships/stations/planets
More modding options....
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/399456/page/6/#2858981
So, what else?
Here's what else.... What we would want a SINS 2 to look like!
Sins 2
- Smoother Gameplay
More Z axis dimensionality
New players can join game in progress to take over AI
Download mod/map direct from game lobby
More personal Lobby, fleet and character.
- New Gameplay
Fighter pilot (YES!)
Weapons Control (turret shooter mode!)
Ground warfare (Conquer the planet)
CO-OP Missions
- Expanded Ship designs, Planet types and structures
Animated ship parts/weapons
Targetable ship parts/weapons for disable
More space buildings for Eco, Diplo, ect.
- Troop carriers
Used for ship/planet takeovers
- Expanded 4X dimension
Spies and Espionage/Sabotage
More exploration
- Original design (Major Stress and many others)
Orbiting systems, No phase lanes, but a moving universe. This would make timing very important.
Add a limited jump distance from friendly territory to balance it out. (Never liked the fact that one race could strike anywhere they wanted, while the others could not...)
More?
Binary Planets or moons, Binary Star systems. Better movement of ships like Soa2. Frigates or Corvettes use Fighter style movement (but slower).
Personal Emblems on Capital Ships?
To add races it could use a system like Empire Earth had where each race gets a number of points to start and each specialty costs points or choose a pre-made set.
Still like to see the Captain get experience instead of the ship and the captain can be moved to another ship or flee in an escape pod. Rank system up maybe. Have a really good Commander in a Cruiser, transfer him to a Capital.
Great work on the OP, keep it up.
What? Thats some powerful space fuel you've been downing there...
So what you claim is that the Vasari did their hazardous and doomed experiment in their lab- and an iguana popped out? I had expected either some form of sentient infection, or a dimensional rift. If it was a dimensional rift the monsters would probably be amoebas, not that they couldn't be any kind of monster but amoebas are traditional, there's something about dimensional rifts that make the ability to see the brain floating around inside the body almost compulsory. I just can't imagine a starship crew and an entire empire being scared of an iguana, even one that was nearly as big as the lab it was spawned in. I suppose it could be zombies, they're very popular, but they would count as an infection.
However what I don't get at all is why insects would fear reptiles in particular. Crocodiles don't eat insects, nor do many snakes. Giant anteaters and aardvarks are mammals. Insects might fear birds- or more especially spiders, I'd expect you to realise that- but I'm not convinced that reptiles make vast lunches off the insect population, so that they would be terrified of them. I suppose its difficult to ask an insect, and humans aren't scared of cars even though cars kill plenty of humans. But I'd like to know more, it doesn't seem an automatic kind of fear to me.
I would just abandon the existing backstory if there was a Sins 2. It never made any sense anyway and it handicaps the game rather than helping to rationalise it. The Vasari are ancient but are at approximately the same technological level as humans? The Advent were loathed into exile but no-one could be spared to check on what they were up to subsequently? One of the very few reasons why different humanoids would ever make first contact at approximately the same technological level is by the previous design of some incredibly powerful and ancient race, an honoured and serviceable backstory that has worked for as many aeons as the space-based rts has existed. A variant is where a powerful empire is dedicated to non-interference but other more aggressive factions gain their first space technology by trading with it. Either of those would work somewhat better.
real-time damage system so that the different weapon effects and types arent merely cosmetic
the sins damage system has always annoyed me, especially with the backloaded nonsense where it takes a ship what feels like forever to die
Yes, thats because of the shield mitigation thingy. Such artificial nonsense. I would completely remove shield mitigation, and increase HP and shields of all ships accordingly (+50% for all, +75% for starbases and capital ships, more for Advent). Much better and simpler, IMHO.
I like the current system with the shields and shield mitigation. Removing it would also essentially make phase missiles obsolete, or at least they'd have to be modified in some sort of a way. The shields/hull system is a core component of the game's strategy, actually.
Maybe someone could just make a mod or Ironclad could create an option to only have a hull, but it shouldn't be the default.
No, shields and shield mitigation are two distinct things, shield mitigation works even if shields are down. I am only advocating removing shield mitigation, not shields/hull system.
All SM does to phase missiles is effectively increasing their damage by cca 50%. Moving this from SM to actual damage value would have the same gameplay result.
Always like the idea of an admiral that had his own special ship( that gave fleet bonuses) that you had to hide or protect. He would be like a queen in chess, you can still win w/o one but it would be harder.
"IF" Sins 2 is to be coded in 64 bit (which it SHOULD be) Then the number of playable factions will not be an issue at all. Nor will any sort of "2 gig" limitation. The game will only be limited by your hardware. Which is what was intended for Sins, but over time failed, because of the jump from 32 to 64 bit machines. The age of 32 bit was starting to come to an end when Original Sins was released.
Most RTS's until now were limited to the 32 bit standards. So they were more or less limited to 3 factions due to hardware, and software limitations (with the exception of the dawn of war series). That is just speculation since Dawn of War proved you can have many different factions in one 32 bit game, and it still ran smooth. Granted those extra factions came from expansions.The models, and textures are pretty low res compared to sins as well.
I think the reality is there was not enough time. Time to create more factions for these games. Being a model, and texture artist myself i KNOW time is a game company, and artists worst enemy. Time to make concept art, then to model, texture, import in the games proprietary format, do voice overs, add music etc. etc. Then create a UI, and other finalization's of said factions. Then balancing, and play testing. This takes LOTS of time. Even with a large art department it may be time that the game developers just do not have. With the "next big thing" having a release deadline of yesterday thanks to greedy publishers looking to make a quick buck... Who cares if the game is good or not, or if it even works, or not. Making more than 3 factions may not be realistically possible in the limited time allocated to create a new game. That is just my thoughts on it.
While i like most of the ideas posted, It seems most want more RTS in Sins 2, or a new expansion than 4x. Making it more like Homeworld, or Homeworld 2 than Master of Orion 2.
I would like to see IC implement some of the original ideas they had for Sins, but couldnt do it because of limitations at the time.
Like multiple orbiting bodies (planets, moons, asteroids etc.) True Solar Systems with structures orbiting the planets, moons, stars instead of remaining stationary after construction. To add more strategy on decisions on when is the optimal time to strike. Also when would be a good time to dig in, and fortify.
Get rid of the phase lane system.. Originally Sins was supposed to be an "open" universe. The devs did away with it, because of a perceived "Whack a Mole" syndrome in the gameplay. If an open universe was implemented along with fuel usage (antimatter), and range limit from nearest 'friendly" planet/star base like in Gal Civ 2, It can be done, and this will add more strategy than take away. It will also add to the 4x element.
Better diplomacy (than even the diplomacy add on). Diplomacy IMO is still very limited compared to most other 4x games. Spys, and espionage similar to gal civ 2 would add a lot to Sins.
Ground Combat... it doesnt have to be complicated. Imperium Galactica 2, AND Gal Civ 2 had a simple yet effective ground combat system. With Sins 2 you shouldn't have total control of a planet until you send in the MARINES, and have a military garrison on the surface.
Add some more focus on Exploration, and Discovery. The current system doesnt really feel like i am exploring much of anything. Except what is on the other side of the phase lane.
More to say, but i am tired.
I like very much the troop/ground combat/planet structure from "Star War : Empire at war" ( along or not with "corruption" )... number of structure who can be build is related to the planet size... type or structure is related to research... garnison is used for defend planet along some structure... invasion fight happen on some cute mini map... garnison can be used for invade other planet... etc
In fact a lot of thing is possible... can perfectly imagine the RTS game switching to a FPS game during invasion for example...
what id like to see is less hardcoded parts so for example wanted to make my a campaign for a sins mod hardocoded cant change the ai or create scripted events
so basically drastically reduce the amount u cant actually change for example u can make a third person shooter in sc2 y cant i make a campaign in this awsome game
Some more good stuff here!
Though I think the shield mitigation is needed. If it were not implemented, there would be no need for cap ships, because they all would be dead. The mitigation system should, however, go down once the shields are down. Armor mitigation takes over here. I think that would work a bit better.
I'll put the Captain idea in the post, but I'm not so sure on it. Sure a captain brings much experience to the field, but if he is unfamiliar with a particular ship and its limits, he serves little good. I personally like the need to protect your assets that Sins make one try to do. A ship with a novice crew is less threatening than an experienced crew... regardless of captains.
Added accordingly. What else? I'm loving this game more and more!
There should be a new multiplayer user interface that better facilitates situational awareness.
Here is what I am talking about:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts11c1yi
This interface would make it so that you don't have to constantly switch back and forth between the lobby in and out of games in order to see how many people are online, what other games are being hosted, etc.
Also, on the right side of the screen, it should tell you the number of available slots in a game, i.c. 4/10 after the game name.
Advantages:
1. Be in a game and monitor the chat in both the main lobby and in your game room
2. See if any other games have been created while you are sitting in your game room waiting for people to join
3. You won't need to switch back and forth between multiple screens to gather information, everything is visible
Disadvantages:
I can't think of any real ones. People would need to learn a new interface, but that's not really a disadvantage.
The frigate and cruiser max mitigation is 57%, capship is 75%. So the same gameplay effect would be achieved simply by removing mitigation and increasing capship hp+shields by cca 25%. If the sole purpose of mitigation is to effectivelly add more hp and shields (damage resistance) to capships compared to frigates and cruisers to prevent them dying from focus fire, why not do it directly?
I'd like to see a way to allow better micromanagement during large battles. My problem is that I get into battles with over 200 ships and it becomes almost possible to order groups of ships to attack enemy ships, which I normally do from the Empire Tree. But when you have so many of your own units around, you can't even see the individual enemy ships on the tree and it bounces around. It's rather frustrating.
Is Sins dead?
I was thinking of getting this game.
Should I? Or should I wait?
I want space strategy w/ tactical. Is this it?
I was thinking of getting StarCraft II but I have a feeling it's like Star Craft I but only with nicer graphics.
-.-
Because that's not the way the mitigation system works. It's supposed to increase as a ship takes a lot of fire from a certain damage type, and drop back down and start to compensate again when the ship starts being pounded on by another damage type, meaning if all you're doing is pounding away with lasers, the shields will adapt to make lasers less effective forcing the attacker to bring in ships with different damage types like beam or missiles or gauss and keep enough variation involved to take out the ship easier.
Not completely.
Depends on what you think is going to happen if you wait. The cost isn't going to drop much if at all, there's not going to be a mass influx of people all of a sudden one day, I doubt there will ever be a single player campaign added, but who knows...
Sure.
It is.
The online multiplayer and PvP scene ("the real Sins game") is pretty dead. Almost all of the action on standard ("vanilla") Sins and the Entrenchment expansion are groups of friends playing comp stomps. You can still find 4v4 and 5v5 PvP action on the Diplomacy expansion during North American prime time (8 pm - Midnight U.S. Eastern Time), but you often have to wait for half an hour or longer, and waits of an hour are not uncommon. Generally, there are only enough players to populate one or two 4v4s or 5v5s at a time, so you have to wait for one to end before the next game can fill.
https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Mitigation
Thats not how mitigation works. It increases with damage dealt regardless of composition of damage types, and protects ship from ALL damage types equally. Variation is useless against mitigation, only higher damage/shot weapons work initially better (when SM is not yet maxed). It does not work like shield adaptation.
Shield mitigation works even when the shields are down, so again, its not shield adaptation. I would like to see shield adaptation to damage types implemented, though. Good idea
This is already ingame with damage modifiers.For example lf do 150% damge(I think is 150)To ships like carriers and flak.
This are damage types, not on the fly adaptation of shields to different damage types - something like mitigation, but specific to each damage type.
Most of what I would want is not really expansion material, but sequel or 'spiritual successor' material. The only expansion I can imagine, at this point, is one which introduces the Vasari's arch-nemeses.
Yet for Sins of a Solar Empire 2 or a spiritual successor, I have two broad wishes:
Must have fixes:
stationary turning, its space! Perhaps a penalty to turn speed while not having any forward momentum to provide an opportunity for a foe. An effective advent healing unit, at tech level 6 it better have some USE! Rebalancing advent's early game.
Additions:
1. Adding a new research tab for Capital Ships. Three sub trees would be something along the lines of Ability upgrades, offensive upgrades, and defensive upgrades. This would be an easy way to improve capital ships, give the developers flexibility with balance, and provide another area to focus resources, and make capital ships more viable in end game. Want fighter defenses on your caps? buy them at tech level 1 for a measly 400/500 creds. This would help rebalance carrier capitals without a nerf (aside from bomber spam on the vasari cap, that needs an increased antimatter cost/increased cooldown). I strongly assert that increasing capital ship utility will diversify the game play, increasing strategic options and overall increasing the fun!
2. Adding more planetary upgrade options, and more planet types. When scouted, a planet(not an asteroid) has a blind spot behind it that is unseen unless the scout actually drives around the planet. This would increase the difficulty that other players will have in scouting your entire empire. No need for cloak, just make them work for that sexy scan data!
3. Improve the Random maps that are used so often in multiplayer matches. Have less predictable phase lane placement, and less predictable homeworld locations. Reduce the occurrence of the "suicide spot" situation in 4v4 and 5v5, as it gets annoying.
4. Perhaps adding a few more upgrade slots to really max the starbases out? this could be a tech lvl 8 purchased defense upgrade, and lordy what a good one that would be! Also provide more health upgrades for advent/tec starbases to make them on par with the vasari SB. As it stands currently vasari have the inherent advantage when they siege a planet being able to pick and choose the precise location of battle. Considering fleets of even currency investment and similar tech level, Player skill should allow both players to fight for this advantage.
All starbases can move intrinsically or via upgrades. Using the vasari starbase as the top speed of 1, the advent starbase would be .75 and the terran starbase would be .5. Fleets should be able to easily avoid the red button of death with improved pathing. Fleets should be able to avoid the advent starbase with a little more difficulty since it is not as quite as devastating as the red button of death, but still very scary. The vasari would have the fastest starbase and would have a much less "guarenteed win" besieging a planet. Having slow moving terran starbase would allow terrans to reposition their "red button o death". Also a red button sneak would be pretty epic, you never know when those small fleet distractions sent into an enemies heartland will draw their attention!
This could be restated as FIX CHANNELED CASTING. The Advent's Subjugator would be a nice unit if they didn't all target and try to heal or disable the same unit. The problem stems from using ApplyTargettedBuffToSelf which can't distinguish that the targetted unit is already the target for the non-stacking DisableImmune ability of the Subjugator. Giving the ability a sub-buff to check on targetted units would be a nice way to filter which units can be targetted.
I'm not a fan of the existing shield mitigation system. The worst part about it is that it fails to encourage players to spread damage instead of focus fire. Its sole justification seems to be to protect the big ships that are introduced too early in the game (so tell me again why a faction can build carrier capitals and not carriers?), which it does until the middle game, which is when the complaints begin that the capitals aren't strong enough to take focus fire. The rationale for mitigation, especially the part about it retreating into the armour when the shield is down, is laughable. I could come up with six different game mechanics for shields and armour space-based combat that would be more convincing than that. Twelve. Once the shield is down, the phase missile impacts directly on the armour, bypassing the mitigation that is in the armour itself? Rubbish.
Turn-based games like Master of Orion limited focus fire by means of stacking limitations, independent shields and more limited ranges. I've repeatedly said that Sins would profit from an approach that moved away from penalising focus fire and rewarded spread fire more. One problem with the existing system of mitigation is that the threshold for mitigation to rise is set too low so that it affects spread fire rather more than focus fire. An entiirely different approach would have fire penalties when more than a couple of ships engage the same target, and also inflict fire penalties on any ship taking fire. There should also be a penalty for any ship switching target, so that instead of mitigation rising, fire output rose on any ship that maintained the same target over a period of time. That way the fire output of a fleet is maximised when it engages all or most of the enemy fleet at the same time- which is the way in which admirals have always engaged down the centuries. Sins also has no penalty for collisions, which further encourages formless mob focus fire. Would having four different shields take that much implementation? It might add considerably to the game.
I've never understood the constant calls for a Sins campaign, the scope of a game with multi-star maps doesn't seem right for one. Master of Orion never had a campaign, every game was a campaign? Set up a large enough map, maybe alter the research rates to prevent tech getting to heavy too quickly, there you have a co-op campaign? Perhaps more variation in the victory conditions would help?
This is definitely not realistic, but have you thought of the counter argument?
How fun would sins early game be for ALL races if you didn't have the fleet capability of a capital ship early on? Without early capital ships early fleets would be even more one dimensional then they already are. Capital ships provide the skill variable in the early game.
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