So what would the new expansion have?
Here are some of mine, and I'll add more good ones as you all present them
1. CAMPAIGN!!!
I have a few friends who haven't picked up Sins due to the lack of co-op campaign. I would love to have a campaign.... but I realize that it is a stretch.
Maybe a campaign that teaches the new players all the mechanics of the game better? Nothing too huge.
2. More empire building options.
A. Planet development
I love the design of Sins, but I wish that planets had more function to them. Maybe a research tree devoted just to planet upgrading and development. Right now the planet bonus system doesn't seem to give much to where it would be best. Maybe implement a system that you can research some planet bonuses for economic worlds, research worlds, culture worlds and production worlds
B. Black Market, resource trading depth.
Something should be done in this category to break the "I have more planets so my production is better" staleness. It shouldn't be just about the numbers, it should be the COUNTERS. That is the design I see in Sins, strategy and counter-strategy.
C. Planet variety.
The DS mod and others have introduced many new planet types, and I think they should be made a permanent part of the game. There is no reason to not add more variety.
D. New Logistic structure. (added by Darvin3)
As Darvin3 stated, logistics are only tactical at the start of the game, by the mid-late, it digresses into trade ports or refineries only..... Need some variety, something that has a bonus that stacks.
E. Embassy. (added by ZombieRus5)
Buildable by Envoys. Like a starbase but for diplomacy and economy, not defense
3. Optimize.
A. 2 GB limit.
If it is possible, can the engine be optimized to run on multicore?
B. Optimization project
The team for the optimization project has fixed some bugs, and optimized many meshes, textures and files. Maybe use their free work to help?
C. Ship movement. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Large fleets still take very wide arcs to maneuver. This is space, turning on a time is possible, and strategic.
D. Empire Tree (added by MindsEye)
Put transition ships at the BOTTOM! No more jumping trees please.
E. Auto Docking. (added by myfist0)
Strike craft stay docked unless an enemy is present. Or maybe add a condition that fighters only auto attack when X number of strikecraft/lrms are present, and bombers auto attack when there are very few enemy fighters left.
F. Zoom model reduction. (added by myfist0)
Zoom out and use lower level models. Zoom in, higher quality models. Simple no?
4. Multiplayer.
A. Smurfing. (added by Stant123)
Nobody seems to like it, and it harms newcomers. ID's should all be tied to a main account. Multiple users on one account can be used for friend purposes or new tactic strats, but seriously, no little blue men....
B. Lobbies. (added by Stant123)
The split lobby is very cumbersome, and should be reworked if possible.
C. Downloadables. (added by DirtySanchezz)
Custom maps should be able to be downloaded from the game lobby itself. Streamlining the multiplayer experience will get more people online.
D. Multiple Start options. (added by MindsEye)
Different quick start options, Yes! Also with more Pirate options to play with. Have a start with more than one planet, and one with a small fleet and colonizer. Trim some time off the game.
E. Multiple AI Start options. (added by ZippyIp)
Set pirate strength and AI surrender limits
5. Mechanics.
A. Fleeting down. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Fleeting down to gain resources is a good idea. Paying again for the upgrade will prevent abuse... I like it!
B. Invasions. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Invasions instead of bombings. Take longer, but retaining more of the planet infrastructure.... Thoughts on this one?
C. Adjustable fleet patterns.
Have more options to fleet design. Have a skirmisher fleet (LRMs in front instead of HC) an actual battle ball (Fleet centers around capital ships) and a wedge, cause everyone needs to be wedged from time to time...
D. Ship division. (added by ShotmanMaslo)
Have a button or hotkey for equally dividing fleets from one large one into 2 smaller ones. Have options for how to divide fleets, tying into the fleet patterns above
E. Captains. (added by many!)
Experience tied to a captain rather than a ship, with the captain being transferable. (I'm not so sure on this one...)
F. New Capital Ship research tree. (added by ZombisRus5)
Add more HP, damage, antimatter and abilities. upgrade targets per bank of weapons, and increase weapons
Possibly customize capital ships?
6. New material
A. New support cruiser. (added by Darvin3)
Each faction should get a new cruiser to aid in balance issues. Advent have no answer to shield mitigation; Tec have no mass disable options or capital ship protection measures; Vassari have no star base killing options other than strike craft, which limits fleet dimensionality.
B. New race. (added by many)
Simple, new race! space slugs or cybernetic robots anyone?
0. Ideas that probably will not work, but do deserve mention...
A. SuperCaps. (added by Qu4r)
The balance of the game is still a little off, and I don't think adding Super Capital ships will help. However, the Idea itself is very good.
B. Cloaking. (added by ShotmanMaslo, onomastikon)
Cloaking is a very popular mechanic that people want, but the way Sins does it is not practical. Ships simply phase out, but are still physically visible, just not attackable. That is not stealth, and shouldn't really be used extensively.
C. Full ship customization
Customize each individual ship, modular method. Not sure it is "Sins" material.
AND - lift the hard code limits for the modding community. Maybe let the AI be edited as well
- Give the AI more personalities to choose from. A heavy LRM spammer, or bomber spammer AI would be a challenge!
- Longer names for ships/stations/planets
More modding options....
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/399456/page/6/#2858981
So, what else?
Here's what else.... What we would want a SINS 2 to look like!
Sins 2
- Smoother Gameplay
More Z axis dimensionality
New players can join game in progress to take over AI
Download mod/map direct from game lobby
More personal Lobby, fleet and character.
- New Gameplay
Fighter pilot (YES!)
Weapons Control (turret shooter mode!)
Ground warfare (Conquer the planet)
CO-OP Missions
- Expanded Ship designs, Planet types and structures
Animated ship parts/weapons
Targetable ship parts/weapons for disable
More space buildings for Eco, Diplo, ect.
- Troop carriers
Used for ship/planet takeovers
- Expanded 4X dimension
Spies and Espionage/Sabotage
More exploration
- Original design (Major Stress and many others)
Orbiting systems, No phase lanes, but a moving universe. This would make timing very important.
Add a limited jump distance from friendly territory to balance it out. (Never liked the fact that one race could strike anywhere they wanted, while the others could not...)
More?
I'd like to see at least one additional race, preferably the race (or whatever) that caused Vasari's downfall. I would imagine a race of giant jellyfish like Gellarts who feed off antimatter. Something really different. The story could develp so that the TEC or whoever notice a weak point in these creatures' metabolism, allowing them to be damaged in this portion of the galaxy; they then share this knowledge with the Vasari and Advent for the sake of the game's balance. So the three traditional races, perhaps with the addition of one frigate or cruiser or such, and the addition of the space slug race.
The only other thing I'd like to see is an improvement to the AI, one that has a plan in researching.
Optimization would be awesome, and so would much stronger AI. Beyond that..economy?Right now economy is a planet's population+trade income, which has everything to do with the length of one single trade route, rather than, say, the network affect of choke points and nexuses. Where, for instance, a planet with three spurs of trade lines would likely earn profits as being an endpoint on three, currently it just takes the longest line, making each planet in the line equally important. A lot could be added to the strategy of positioning if positions mattered for trade. Soo...I'm obviously just imagining toward my own preferences, but what I'd love is an expansion, where the last two were Entrenchment and Diplomacy, another supplement to the actual battle, Support, or Logistics, or some such. Rework the way the trade works, in a manner that doesn't make it too extra complicated, but does actually have a greater impact on planet values. Because encouraging single line trade empires..what?
- Temporary cloaking for ships and anticloak technology (tiberian sun anyone?)- Could you add a button to divide fleet in two fleets with equal numbers of ships of every type? Dividing fleets for example into one attacking and one defending fleet is generally pain in the ass. I think this could be automatically done with some clever algorithm. Also, I would like to see something like fleet manager in Galactic Civilisations.
- a Bug: I have noticed that strikecraft can fly straight through a star or planet- I would really like the idea of being able to fleet down. If u loose a few planets and resources you can drop as many tech levels in fleet support as you want for some payment and time if you decide you cannot retake your lost planets... BUT to fleet back up you have to research all over again investing the resources (and time!) necessary to do so. This ensures that you cannot use it to quickly boost your economy and fleet up again, but if you get beaten from owning many planets to few, overtime you can adapt (revert to previous fleet infrastructure states) istead of wasting most of your small resource income on unneeded fleet supply- planetary invasions (they will take longer and cost some resources, but developed planets wont be absolutely destroyed after invasion, and maybe u could get slaves?)- At least minimal amount of flak for capital ships and starbases, its just totally unrealistic and not cool that there are no anti-fighter guns on such precious ships.- add planetary defenses located on planet surface(ground to orbit missiles, cannons, lasers....)-asteroid fields IN systems that have some tactical effects(only fighters/bombers and frigates can navigate them, caps and cruisers cannot)-Diffrent gas clouds alot like armarda, some that drop shields.. some that increase shield regen or interfere with diffrent kinds of weapons.-minor races like in GalCiv 2-space creatures(giant amoeba)-destroyable ship subsystems(weapons, engines, sensors...)-trading planets, ships, technologies and negotiating optionslike in GalCiv 2-capturable key resources like in GalCiv 2-capturing ships and stations-binary star systems, blackholes (include bodies from various mods in vanilla game..)- fix retarded ship movement issue (arcing turns) - https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/374505- get rid of shield mitigation (at least disable it when shields are down..)-spies like in galciv2- allow longer ship, station, planet names, allow players to name fleets
I hope it will be a Campaign in the new Expansion
Yes, I can't believe I forgot to say "cloaking". Cloaking. Not like there will be an expansion, but hey, talk is cheap.
There wont be? Why they posted a poll on the mainpage then? Almost all voters want an expansion.
There will always be doubters like there will always be believers. Its the nature of things.
Oh, and as for your SC bug with the planets and such, that was a deliberate thing.
Add supecaptial ship, converted from lv10 capital ship, or 2, with ql new features, fleet bonuses, ect ect.
such a ship could be something special, no 1-shoot entire fleet, but should have some skills for empire and for fleet, even diplo maybe. Variety of options is hudge. Suprise me
I'd like to see them enable auto-download for custom maps.
Also, they need to come up with some sort of a way to encourage the single player crowd to come online and play PvP (which is the real Sins game).
That's more of an issue with the community then the developers. I remember years ago just browsing on the forums and hearing people bitch that pros use alternate IDs to play against newbies and crush them. Maybe a solution is to link all IDs on the same account. If you score a win as one, the counter goes up on all of them so this practice cannot happen.
One person got so pissed off since they said they refused or couldn't put in the time to be on and playing like everyone else, that they were always having alliances formed against them even if it wasn't officially done in game by players who knew each other. They didn't want to be 'one of the guys' or couldn't be due to time constraints, and for all of his bitching the answer he got was, "just put in your time and pay your dues" which was exactly the point he was making about how difficult it was for new people to have an enjoyable experience. No one wants to be picked on for a hundred games before someone finally decides to help 'em out. Developer side remedies aren't really going to do much if the other players are dicks about it. Ultimately it falls on us to make that person feel good about their time online and want to come back rather then write it off forever. Reading the horror story experiences on the forums is what kept me away from online PvP for a while until I found a casual group who sucked as bad as me and just didn't care about it... But that came after 2 years of looking... Most people give up after a couple of weeks.
What the devs can do though is like I said, link wins and losses to all ID's on the same account. Then you can't hide with a new name.
Maybe bring all of the lobbies back together as one so no matter what version you have, you can chat with everyone in a main lobby, then let the players create game rooms outside of that to set up games as they do now. Put up a (E) or a (D) or some other icon next to the name of the person that signifies the difference between the versions based on which was used when a person logged on to ICO.
And probably most importantly, making games (and channels) discoverable. It's stupid to see 54 players online and 6 afk people sitting in the main lobby and that's all you know about. If you knew of the room that had 20 people in it, maybe you could join that and get in on some of the action.
Of course making it all a little more graphical couldn't hurt either. I frequently reference the old mPlayer service from the late 90's. Was it perfect? Of course not, but it was miles better then what ICO is now and that was 15 years ago. There's just no excuse for that. You take what worked and you do that. The main lobby everyone goes to no matter what version they have, the channel lists so you can see what's out there, the player counts in the channel so you know if that's where everyone is at, the type of game being displayed so others interested in that type knew where to go, the person who creates the channel is the mod and can lock it so griefers can't come in and piss everyone off... Simple things...
Another reference from the old mPlayer is the use of Wizards and Sages. Wizards were devs who jumped on and played the games. It was always fun to kill one in a match. >=] Then there were Sages, community members found worthy of having limited admin powers by being helpful and had the time to put in to settle disputes and set up ladder matches and whatever else arose. At this point the community is mostly devastated and non existent, and what's left doesn't need them, but future games might...
But again it still comes down to the players involved to either help or hurt the experience and we've got no one to blame but ourselves if someone decides never to play multiplayer again..
Some good ideas here. Updated posts to reflect many of them.
Some will not work, however, because this is Sins. We are not looking at changing the main game mechanics too much. It still is a game unique unto itself, So alot of the GalCiv 2 Ideas shall stay with Galactic Civilization.
Keep 'em coming!
IC should IMO go for broke on a new expansion. What i mean is they should take what we have been trying to tell them for the last 3 years, and implement it.
A SP campaign i would save for Sins 2 (if there will be a sins 2). The bad thing about SP campaigns is it would have to be scripted. Like the HW campaigns. For a game designed to be pure sandbox that will be very difficult to pull off. The SP campaign if implemented should be a re-hashing of the lore told in mission format from the point of view of all 3 (or 4) factions. As in a campaign for each faction like supreme commander with ultimately a similar victory, or defeat ending for all factions. Complete with cutscenes, and in game dialog.
The most important thing is the Bug Fixes, and Optimization which both go hand, and hand. Bug Fixing helps to optimize the game by eliminating things that would cause problems, and slowdowns. Improving existing things to work better is a big plus as TSOP proved. TSOP accomplished many bug fixes, and improvements. It brought a game that 2 gig crashed often down to a stable platform that never uses more than 1.7 gigs on max settings. With very little loss of detail.
IC can use this as a foundation for the next expansion. Along with updating the existing engine to use 64 bit code. Which in turn would make the iron engine able to use the extremely high end graphics without worrying about a 2 gig limit. The only worry should be if we have cpu, ram, and a video card that can handle it. Original sins set a benchmark on extreme hardware scaling. It looked, and ran great on low end systems as well as high end. It should keep that standard, and take it one step beyond with 64 bit code.
I Like Sins gameplay as it is now. I wouldnt change it too much for the next expansion. Improve the existing before you add on new stuff.
Glad to see you added some of my ideas to the list SivCorp Could also you add these two? Maybe under "Interface"? I have suggested them since vanilla sins, and think they would be very easy to implement, but devs always ignored me..
- add a button to divide fleet in two or more fleets with equal numbers of ships of every type? Dividing huge fleets (frigates and cruisers) for example into one attacking and one defending fleet is generally pain in the ass, especially in multiplayer. I think this could be automatically done with some clever algorithm. Also, I would like to see something like fleet manager in Galactic Civilisations.
- allow longer ship, station, planet names, allow players to name fleets
TSOP is a patch and NOT an expansion. I refuse to pay for what should be a patch.
Can add more star base types but AI will not build them.
Be able to add another research section in modding.
Add Z axis for placing planets and structures
Oh ya, not to be completely abandon after release. Update the Forge Tools and for Christ sake write a pinned post on placing maps and mods. The pinned post are ridiculously out dated and full of WRONG info. eg
A readme could be placed in the root galaxy folder explaining where maps actually go. I am sure a moderator can edit that section of the pinned post but I guess there is no money to be made doing so.
Already possible in sins... simply that there is not yet any mod using it... plan to have a ONI ship for the Halo mod using it...
Since some people will not believe me, best is to post some screenshot...
One of my first experiment... moving texture with a wave effect...
From there, have evolve it to a moving texture with light emitting... can be found on the Vorlon ship in the B5 mod... the light map from the da green can only illuminate the model itself, in these case it can illuminate nearby ship too... some modification in the code and cloak effect become possible
Work very on the usual black sky with star... no so good with colored skybox... but everything can be tune... in these example, i have make the rotating part of a B5 model ( Omega ) being partially transparent...
Principle if very simple... for a full ship cloak... a dummy mesh ( a cube so little that it will never be visible on screen ) with hardpoint... one of the hardpoint being for a particule effect... particule effect render the full ship and/or make it invisible...
Other thing possible is having gun turret track the target... the trick is to have the gun turret being part of the firing particle effect and not from the main mesh... but in case of ship with a lot of turret, it will hit the hardcode limit for particle effect hardpoint...
And i have a bunch of other untested crazy idea in store... like my dynamic mod system who will allow player to choose a max of 10 races between a virtually unlimited numbers of races ( only limit will be the size of your harddrive )... same if there is 10000 races in the dynamic mod system, only the races selected for the game will be loaded in the memory... bye bye the problem with the 2gb limit, it is somehow a "loadondemand" thing...
Point is that the actual sins engine have a lot of possibilities who are not yet discover or used...
In fact, i wish only two thing in sins... the removal of all hardcoded limit... it is the responsability of mod dev to not break down the game... and a AI who can be modded by example putting the rules in some xml file in place of having them in the core engine... some people have created very good abilities but these can be used only in multiplayer game since in single player game the AI don't use them...
I'll be honest. I'd rather see a new game or a sequel then an expansion. A lot of the stuff people really want isn't practical in an expansion, but IS practical if you're doing something new.
It would be cool to have an official alternate universe mod, using the ship models from the beta version! (and previous versions balances... so we could play the equivilent of (non-buggy) v1.00-1.18 if we wanted for some odd reason.
(but, what we really need is a sins2 with new engine, better physics (if engines go offline =/= break ON.. stricke caft dont fly through sun... turrets rotate, and have limited firing arc... destructible ships...) 64 bit/multithreading... better multiplayer...
I agree with MyFisto in that we should not have to "pay" for bug fixes, and optimization. The Optimization/Fix portion can be released as an all around patch for the 3 existing versions of Sins BEFORE the new expansion is released.
If a new faction is to be added the game MUST be optimized first, or else we will be back to square one with the 2 gig crashes (If sins remains 32 bit).
I also agree that lifting all hard code limits, and opening the AI for modding is a must for the modding community to continue. It is indeed the responsibility of the mod makers not the Dev's to prevent their mods from being over excessive to the point of being non playable.
I would pay for a expansion without even thinking if: 1) It included a big balance fix that included very clever people like Darvin in the Beta stages (fix culture, pirates, equality between the races and cap ships). 2) TSOP included with bug fixes.3) Some new mechanics to add some spice (Maybe something like the planetary invasions people have been talking about recently or a different trade system or something like that).I agree with some people here we shouldn't have to pay for bug fixes but if they were included with balancing rework and sweetened with some 'simple' new mechanics then I would be very keen. New mechanics wouldn't need to be much, I would be just as happy to see the balancing.
Lets not forget the empire tree.Make it stationary so you can pick stuff without it jumping every other second.This should be easy and I have no idea why it hasnt been fixed yet????
It 'jumps' to focus on whatever you have selected. It also 'jumps' as a result of pinned ships phase jumping. Unpinning your ships would prevent the latter half of that, and unpinning planets and starbases you no longer need to keep track of is not only better to keep your tree small and manageable, but helps reduce slowdowns to the game. Outside of pinned ships jumping, it's already stationary.
Yes eliminate the jump.When I click on something it moves.I like to have my other plantes on there thats the point of the tree.Whats the point if I have to unpin everything?Everytime something jumps in to a diff world the whole thing moves(friendlys or just my own ships moving) causeing me to miss the ship I was trying to click causing delays in my battle tactics.Easy fix is allow the top and bottom to expand while keeping the middle focused .I can adjust it to view what I want myself.Also in large battles when you have to do alot of scrolling down to find something sometimes I have to do it 3 or 4 times cause as soon as I get there it jumps back to the top of the list in the well.
One idea I am having to improve mp and maybe encourage new mp people is to make the mp games shorter.One way we could do this is modifying quickstart.Make it so everyone starts with their roid already colonized.Everyone always gets the roid first thing and I mean everyone thats experienced.So it would eliminate maybe 5-15 min off the game with eco and resources and allow quicker pace to mid game.Maybe everyone starts with 10 lf and colonizer already for quicker expansion.It could solve the bugged roid start too.Would bring games down to maybe 45 min which alot more people would accept.
Different quick starts is an excellent idea. Maybe 2 or 3 to pick from.
Also pirate strength options when starting.
Probes that allow you to see the grav well but the enemy cant see the probe unless at very close range to encourage patrols. These probes should be able to launch from another planet.
Auto dock strike craft option to reduce load on the system.
Updated with more ideas, thanks all!
I also added a brain drizzle I had -
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