Hi, I love this game so far, I thought I would post some feedback. Maybe most or all of this has been mentioned before but I'll post it anyway incase its of some value. I don't know the history of this game, but I am a huge fan of HOMM5 and the Age of Wonders series. I bought this game based on my love of those basically. Anyway, here are my thoughts in no particular order.
1) First impression is that the game is brilliant, with masses of depth, way more than the two other previously mentioned games. There are more buildings to build, and more of everything. I was excited to see weapons for sale, but then really impressed when I saw just how many weapons you could get. I was a little disappointed that most of the weapons were the same though, just seemed to require different materials. It might be nice have some more variety, ones that trigger various effects randomly, like a flame sword, and an ice sword, and a sword that has a brief stun etc.
2) Overall the graphics are pretty good, it has some better detail and animations than AOW/AOW2. I loved zooming out through the clouds, and I love how it becomes a map when you zoom all the way out. Although some things I don't think look as good as those other games. Some of the 'places' of interest in the other games are generally nicer looking than in this. The little temples and gold mines looked ok, but some stuff just looked like a basic icon, compared to the other games where they have nice detailed little pictures.
3) Travelling around the map is a little less interesting than the other games. It gets better later in to the game when I start coming across the enemy players, and creatures eventually start spawning too. But in general it wasn't quite as fun. In the other games there are little clusters of mobs blocking narrow valleys, and protecting key locations like gold mines and stuff. It gives some flavour to the maps, it provides some good early experience to kick start the levelling up process, and it also slows the game down a bit and saves it from just being a mad rush straight to your opponent. I think this game could certainly use more creatures early in the game, preferably hand placed by the map designer, and maybe a few wanderers too.
4) I don't get all the love for CIV5 and CIV4. I was a big fan of the series as a kid and I used to play CIV2 quite a lot. But I found it always got boring fast, after one weekend of playing it, I wouldn't go back for several months. A major issue I have with the CIV games is that there is nothing to the combat. It's a game focused entirely around the cities and the research etc. The actual combat is little more than selecting your unit, and clicking on the unit you want to attack. There is no actual thought involved at all. It also never changes... So you start a game and click on your stone age warrior, and then click on your enemy's town and it attacks without you doing anything. 25 hours later in to the game, you warrior is now a cool modern tank, but the combat is still EXACTLY the same. You still just click it, and click it on the target. That's why I always preferred AOW and HOMM games, because they still have the strategy of building and maintaining cities, but the combat has more going on. This game is likely to be my new home for this kind of gameplay, and I wish everyone else was rushing out to buy this instead of the CIV5.
5) The music was really good, but there needs to be a lot more songs/tunes. AOW2 did a great job at this, it had an entire play list of music and you could just pick the ones you liked the most or randomise it. The music was all quite evocative too and moody, and fit perfectly with the game.
6) My second game, the game crashed with an out of memory message. Kind of worrying considering I have 4 gig and the map was tiny.
7) I would like to see a little bit of improvement, flavour, and customisation for the heroes that you can invite. They come with an ability like adding some movement speed or whatever, which is nice. But in AOW they had a lot more personality. In this game they all seem to just be melee characters basically. In AOW, you got to choose their stats the same, but there were various other things you could give them, like first strike, healing, forest walking, archery, spell casting, etc. So the heroes were more like classes, so you had Rangers and Bards, Druids, Necromancers etc. The heroes in this game could be like that too, if you gave them some extra points when they level up, and then give several more options. Archery, magic use, etc..
8) Bugs are bad and no doubt it was a lot worse before I joined, but I am really disappointed to see it get such bad reviews. I think reviewers should go easy on smaller companies, especially when they make a game that is this ambitious. In time, this could grow to be the best game of it's kind. Already I find it comparable to HOMM5 and AoW2:SM, but it wouldn't take much for me to like this more.
9) If you like the game, consider posting about how you like it on some general gaming forum you read. I visit a couple of other forums and I am planning on posting about the game and hopefully more people will check it out.
Good luck Stardock.
Very well written.
I too loved playing the Age of Wonders series and Master of Magic. True classics.
Elemental has enormous potential and so much room to grow.
Glad I'm on board.
If your disappointed with combat in the civ series, then you would definately like Civilisation call to power and call to power2! Both those games are superior to the civ series except that the AI is quite docile - which is naturally an unforgivable sin, and hence why civ series is on top today and not call to power.
I'm guessing you don't actually own Civ5 yet or you wouldn't have lumped Civ4 and Civ5 combat together. It changed combat to tactical, like AoW and HoMM, and you can really tell a difference. It just takes place on the main map instead of zoomed-in sub-maps. I get that you like the zoomed in sub-maps, but there you are just clicking on units and then clicking on a target to attack, so it's really just a matter of scale. Anyway - if you like tactical combat, then you will think combat in Civ5 is vastly improved over previous Civ versions.
Civ5 has major AI and economy problems, though - so I recommend waiting on it as well.
Yep I own Civ 5 (and 4 and 2). Wish I had tried call to power though!
I think you are right that Civ 5 is better and that the overland map works similar to the zoomed in sub maps. I disagree that it's the same though. With AOW, when you zoom in, you have city walls to smack down using a catapult. You then have various units with quite a bit of variety in how they work. Archers shooting you from a distance, Orc Warlords who like to get between your troops and spin in a circle attacking all of them, shadow knights that attack and drain life to recover their wounds, elven druids that use entanglement on your units so they cant move or act, goblins riding on a giant beetle, flying units etc. Then there is all the magic which offers lots of possibilities. Do you haste your warlord and help him to win the battle for you? Or do you focus your magic on their strongest hero and kill him, or do you use big area spells to do less damage but to everything? Or save your mana to heal your injured units so you don't lose anything? There are quite a lot of choices and it makes for some good tactical decisions and plays so well. Even Civ 5 can't compete with that. All it really has is long range units, and then units to rush in and fight toe to toe. There is no crowd control or healing or buffing/debuffing, no last minute teleports getting you out of a sticky situation, no big flying units like dragons which are untouchable by ground units but can get taken out by magic/arrows.
That's why I think these kinds of games are special. You still have to place your cities in good places, and then nurture them to be huge and producing lots of units and materials. You also have the grand strategy too, choosing whether to focus on magic or whatever. But there is also the tactics of real battles. I think that makes these games that bit better.
Elemental has lots of scope for this too. I just hope it can be added to a bit more, so there are more interesting units besides just a bunch of melee units and a bunch of archers. I would like to see ones with life draining, and circle attacks, first strike, healing, and all the good stuff that AOW had. If this game had all that stuff too with the units and heroes, it would be the ultimate TBS, in my opinion at least.
Having played all the Civs starting back in 1991, I can definitely say I do not like Civilization 5. The combat system definitely is improved but the problem is that the combat AI (and much of the rest of the AI) is so abysmal that it ruins it. Firaxis has a lot of work to do.
I quite like the Elemental combat system. It does need some more fleshing out and balancing but it's a very good base.
I also loved the way Age of Wonders handled combat.
Right on.
I just played another game now (of Elemental) and it's really fun. Reminds me a LOT of AOW. I do hope for some fleshing out though, and then I'll be really happy. At the moment it's nothing especially new. I think it does some things better than AOW but some things worse. With some updates though it could be the best. I hope that will come soon.
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