I posted this in another thread (one on City Spam) and then showed it to a couple friends who were online, and they goaded me into putting it into it's own thread in the "Idea" section, here.
So ... keep in mind, I am not a game developer, I am merely a professional-idea-person & professional BSer. Still, I welcome comments and discussion beyond "stfu" and/or "____ or GTFO".
I also will mention a couple other games in the post - this is not to say "Elemental should be like ____ " but more to just give those that have played other games an easier time envisioning what I have rattling around in my head.
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I've thought about this a little, and if I was a modder I'd probably try and design this system (if it was possible) just to see how it plays out, but ... here was my rough idea:
That, to me, makes the lore fit (Sov is very important to fixing the world again) and instead of city spam, you'd have a more gradual domino effect ... as first city ZOC grows, you place further cities to grab resources and push their ZOC, expanding your bubble outward. No more random pioneer "plops" all over the map to eat up space as fast as possible to deny the AI resources and remove monster spawns.
It also makes the mini-factions more important, since they come with a built city and ZOC. Capturing them gives you a new map area to expand from (if there was a way added to increase the ZOC from their outposts ... or maybe just by utilizing the Sov-push method above). They'd probably have to be beefed up to avoid people rushing them to expand faster, but that is another gameplay balance issue that is up in the air.
Taking over the big AI factions is also more important, as absorbing their ZOC gives you more to work with. <-- This also helps explain why enemy ZOC, cities, etc .. just "vanish" if their Sov dies. Without a Sovereign to keep the ZOC bubble going, the world collapses back in on itself and everything/everyone winks out of existence. By taking over their cities and ZOC you are basically protecting the resources/cities/people from inevitable nonexistence when you banish their Sovereign from the world.
All the sudden .. lore fits better .. game is less "crank out pioneers" and more "I'm pushing back the darkness and remaking the world in my image".
It'd have to balance well for game speed to be fun at all levels ... you wouldn't want to force players to sit in town for 10 turns doing nothing while the ZOC expands, for example, but it could be less exploitful' than the current system.
There's some really good ideas here, especially about the ZoC growth and how it limits city spam. It echos some of the exact points I brought up in the other thread and that were shared by others. Great work my friend, well done indeed.
To shard influence:
This could go out of whack quickly so it should be a really rare event with a random timer so you can't just keep reloading when finishing the "magical 10th turn".
And yes, zerg / creep expansion probably results in better pacing than the land rush.Still... what *I* would do is crank out pioneers like crazy and build chains of cities towards the resources I would previously directly send the pioneer to.All the intermediate cities get razed afterwards.
Yeah, adding random elements around the shards could bring all kinds of neat factors into the game. I mean, they ARE supposed to be these awesome sites of magic and wonder. Right now they're just a funny-looking tile with a bonus attached. The world should be influenced by the player and it should be influencing us back.
Maybe even just a bonus that adds minor elemental damage to the weapons made in towns linked to the shards or special weapons through research - Firebrand swords, vine whips (I choose you, Bulbasaur!), staves of living water, zephyr/air bows, earthen hammer things ... flavor weapons. If they add resistances it could be neat to make troops with expensive elemental-forged items to rock-paper-scissors the enemy's own magic enhanced armies.
As for the "crank out cities" you brought up. With a mechanic that limits how close to each other cities can be placed, it would stop people from daisy-chaining minor cities to reach resources. ZOC would have to expand "fairly quickly" so you could gobble up land and resources, but not "too quickly" to allow a tendril of level 1 outposts slapped down to take distant resources. Still, you can't factor out every possible system exploit people would use, but some balancing can go a long way.
I like where this is all going...
My twist on this idea is to make them all make minor elemental guardians on a random timer and on a separate random timer...
Water: Fertile Land(random with the different types)
Earth: Clay Pits or Old Growth Forests
Air: Library or Arcane Temple
Fire: Metal or Crystal mine (with another factor on if it would be one of the rarer metals)
Possibly have a random timer on if they'd all create Scenic Sites nearby since they should be sites to behold themselves
I agree with Sinful's idea for the elemental weapons for a city that influence over the shard.
Why should all such shard effects automatically be positive to the "owner"? Why would the shards... care?
Earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, floods...
Also cool ideas. .. more fodder to throw into the "Random Event" file that has a percentage chance of firing every once in a while.
"Wild Magic" events ... the shard just goes crazy with power and something negative (or good, as talked about previously) happens.
Happy things happen: good tiles; land looks pretty and lively; bonuses to weapon creations; maybe new techs to research pop up; new potential spells to research
Bad things happen: natural (err.. "magical") disasters; monsters attuned to the shard spawn (fire/earth/etc elementals, drakes, whathaveyou)
I love random events in games, no matter how badly they screw things up for me, it keeps me on my toes and makes the game less of a spreadsheet exercise of number-juggling.
Having shards give random positive effects makes them... tamed.
I thought they were supposed to be the remnants of a power that destroyed the world.Thinking of them as nice fairies doesn't add up for me.
Sure you can "build on" the shard, harvest it's power. But you would be playing with fire.With a force so powerful that a little hickup would be an earthquake in our terms.The people living in a city "built on a shard" should be tossing nervous glances toward it...
That would also create another strategical consideration.How close to the shard do you build your city?A fire shard right next to your town hub could be a terribly bad idea. If you build a bit further out, you'd have to build up the city to grow the ZOC large enough to include the shard. But it would be safer because worst case, you lose a few outlying structures to an ahh... hickup.
Aye. Magic in WOM is entirely too scientific.Especially with the background of magic that this world has.
If I cast a heal spell, it costs me 3 points and heals 12,71 HP. Very magical. Yeah.
Instead the magic might... interpret my intention. Instead of a direct heal, I might get a heal over time. I might get a massive protection spell the triples the defense of a unit but divides it's combat speed by 3.Oh, in most cases it would really only just heal the unit but completely tame magic? It doesn't feel right for the setting.
I understand what you're saying ... and I think I would be fine playing in a world where random events were more negative than positive, but I think the majority of people (especially those more "casual gamers" that companies are always scrambling to sell to, whoever they actually are) would be turned off by a system that punishes but does not seem to reward.
Make shard sites too dangerous and it becomes counterproductive to tap them. Then you get the majority of people just figuring the system out and avoiding it: "Sure I can get a bonus to magic, but then I'm stuck dealing with negative events all game and that sucks, so forget it."
Again ... your ideas are good, I like them a lot, making magic more wild (especially in a world with Elemental's lore) makes sense. I'd happily play that system as well, but I'm a glutton for punishment at times.
Trouble is, a magic system that random can run into similar issues as the shard system you purposed.
While perceived "everything is negative" may shy people away from playing with the shards, the "nothing does what I want it to" aspect of wilder magic could turn off some gamers. A heal spell randomly firing as a heal-over-time could cost a player to lose a battle, or at least their favorite unit, (and cause lots of people who save-scum to just load before the battle and play again hoping for better random events from their magic). I think it would be wildly frustrating for many people to never know exactly what a spell was going to do when it was cast. Though I'm sure it'd depend on percentages ... if there was a 10% chance a spell went awry people could be more tolerant than a 50% chance a spell does something from a list of effects, for instance.
It is a tough balancing game, I'm sure, between "fun" to most people and "random" there is middle ground. ... and every game can never be everything to everyone. I mean, there are lots of people enjoying Elemental "as is" and are talking about how fun and deep and innovative it is, yet others who are waiting for something more meatier to sink their teeth into in some of the patches/overhauls.
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