Welcome to the 2nd Demigod community tournament (Pacov's Last Stand) - rules and registration thread!
UPDATE 1: The scheduling thread has been opened. Please head over there and post when you are available to play: http://forums.impulsedriven.com/399006
UPDATE 2: A new version of uberfix is available AND is required for the tournament. Please see here and download/install: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399037
UPDATE 3: The RESULTS thread has been opened. Please head over there to track your wins/losses/replays: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399047
Update 4: Registration is now closed. Alternates are still allowed, but no new teams will be allowed to register at this point.
Update 5: Added ventrilo (voice chat) server information for those of you that would like to use voice chat. It also helps in finding people that are ready to play their matches!
Update 6: The replay commentaries/discussions thread has been opened: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399150. Check this thread out for news on live streaming events during the tournament along with commentaries and video for some of the games in this tournament!
This thread will cover all of the relevant rules and registration information. Please see below for all of the details.
The tournament began on 10/16/2010. Please be aware that this tournament will not begin and end on 10/16/2010. It will actually take several weeks to complete.
Background
In April 2010, we started our first community demigod tournament. The tournament was 2v2 and certain demigod selections were restricted. The tourney carried a crash prize donated by people in the community and was won by the two man team of zen_god and King_of_thorns. For more details on that tourney, read up here: (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/380837).
Tournament Format
Tournament Rules
Alternates
Prize
There will be a cash prize > $600. Jongalt will be handling the collection of the money for this tournament. We are discussing the prize money in this linked thread: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/398009. We appreciate any contributions to the prize. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY TO PLAY IN THIS TOURNEY.
Here is how we will be splitting the winnings from the pot:
Demigod Selection
Each 3 man team must use the following formula to make their Demigod character selections based on a 7 point maximum. Be aware that no duplicate demigods are permitted on the same team. This means you cannot choose random.
Tournament Time Zone
The official time zone of the tournament is set for EST US time. Players that are outside of that timezone are certainly welcome to play. However, if there are significant scheduling difficulties due to players unable meet at the same time, the team furthest outside of the EST zone will most likely be disqualified or forfeit that match. This rule does not excuse folks in the EST zone from any responsibility. All parties in this tournament should endeavor to schedule their matches with other teams and try to be as flexible as possible.
Decision Making Panel
This tournament will be governed by a decision making panel consisting of pacov, McShane, hedgie with Jongalt as an alternate. The panel's purpose is as follows:
The panel's decision on all matters will be the final word for this tournament. And last, the members of the decision making panel will not make any decisions on the games they are playing in. We didn't have a panel in place for the first tournament and that was a mistake.
How will we handle crashes
If there is a game crash, the players involved in that match should see if they can come to a consensus on the probable outcome of the match. If there is no clear winner, the 2 teams should replay the match using the exact same demigods and sides (light/dark). If there was a clear winner at that point in the game, then that team should be awarded the win. If the 2 teams disagree on the outcome, then the decision making panel will review the replay of the match and render a decision. Be aware that the decision making panel must agree that a specific team was going to win or the results will be thrown out and the match redone. Please be thoughtful if you want the panel to review a match.
How we will handle invalid game states
The lastgamereplay file is still created in the event of an invalid game state, so it is still possible to review the results of a match. In the event of an invalid game state, players should attempt to resolve the issue exactly the same way as game crashes. If you believe foul play occurred, submit the replay along with any screen shots, etc, as evidence and the decision making panel will review. If there is a CLEAR consensus that a team is willingly triggering invalid game states, that team will be disqualified after a thorough review of the facts and will no longer be able to participate in the tournament. If your game does crash, it might be advisable to take a screen shot of the crash as proof. Be aware that we know invalid game states can occur without any sort of foul play, so please be mindful when submitting requests for review.
Current Teams:
Registered Alternates:
Please be aware that other players are elligible to be an alternate based on the rules outlined in the alternates section. I've simply left this list here so teams will know at least a few of the players that might be available as alternates.
For any of you that would like to use it, we have a public ventrilo (voice chat) server that you are welcome to use for the tournament. Even if you don't have a microphone, if only 1 person on your team does, it can be very useful to use voice chat (at least 11 of the registered teams will be using voice chat. Why not you too?
Here's all of the info you need to get started:
Here is where you can download the client (its free): http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php
Here are instructions on how to use ventrilo to connect to a server: http://www.ventrilo.com/setup.php
And here's the needed server info:
Server Name: Lagwar's Ventrilo ServerHostname: oxygen.typefrag.com Port: 50216
I have created some password protected channels for those of you that would like to use the server. Scroll down until you see channel Oh My Demigod. You will then see tournament channel 1/2/3. The password for these channels are demigod. Let me know if you have any questions.
Quoting Hedgie
"I think a submit-and-review is fine. If it's obvious from the get-go that railing on the citadel is your number 1 priority (that is, RoDM, full Morale, Gloves of Fell Derkur (or w/e), Gloves of Brutatlity, Siege Demolishers) then it should be pretty damn obvious.
If you're running that build, but it's against a Rook (and it's clear you're doing it to counter the Rook, not just citadel rape), then I think that the review panel can cover that fine.
Similarily, if you're running a minion heavy hybrid (RoDM, Morale, Pentitence, actually fighting occasionally), then I don't see the issue.
Banning Ring of Diving Might, Pendent of Grace, Horn of Battle (the other two as a lesser threat) I don't think is the proper way to do it. But submitting games won only by citadel cheese can be totally doable."
I agree, easy enough to say "we just played, ________ was a jackass, please review the replay."
We need an official rule written up that allows for this. It needs to be clear in the rules that citadel stomping with minion oak is not acceptable. I don't personally have a problem with an oak using spirits to take out towers, but do with the pounding on the citadel side of things. And it is pretty obvious if that's what the minion oak is trying to do (as opposed to a random spirit here and there). The only time I go for the citadel with spirits if I'm going minion or hybrid is when I'm physically standing at the citadel pounding away. That said, what exactly should our guideline be in the rules section regarding this?
We are sticking the with original dg selection rules.
"you must be attacking the citadel with your demigod if you also wish to use minions. Any violation of this is subject to review and could result in disqual. bottom line - don't be a bastard and go straight for the cit w/ minions"
I agree with Nana #4 there. It's ok to attack the citadel with your minions if and only if you are there with them.
Since we are playing 3 games for each match.
I Have another rule addition/proposition: If a team loses two of the games then for the third game they get to choose which side they are on (light/dark)
I think that's probably a good rule to have in there as well. So, if its a split (1 game a piece) then the 3rd game will follow the rule I listed in the OP. If 1 team has won 2 games, then the other team gets to pick the side. Sounds good. I doubt anyone is really going to be opposed to that, so it will become a rule. Let me know if I'm wrong and folks actually have a problem w this.
I also think the citadel oak rule that rawrr posted is good. I think that's pretty reasonable and still keeps minion oak somewhat viable. I'll add that to the rules later today.
1 WEEK UNTIL THE TOURNAMENT STARTS - FORM TEAMS NOW IF YOU HAVE NOT!!!
I would go for this kind of minion oak use.
I guess something like, you can attack the citadel with spirit minions when you are standing in the citadel square.
If anything, people need to see replays of a good assassin LE shadowing a minion oak and shutting him down by taking out wards with crawlers, stuns + nature's rec on spirits near towers and swarming in to threaten oak if he overexposes.
sry double post
The core problem with the spirits is that it's almost impossible to kill them because they float around the citadel and get barely hit by anything.
heh... we are going to have so many rules...
I like that we have a bright enough group to think through all of the angles, but jeeze
So, the rule will be that oak's spirits may not be used to attack the citadel period. The exception of course would be a few straggler spirits might hit it in combat - the only thing that would get your dq'd would be spamming the cit. I think this is a bit silly, personally, but hey - as you like. I get the feeling we're going to have to review some silly arse games as a result of this rule.
Edit - I added the rule Jon mentioned to the op and the following rule for oak's spirits:
"Players using oak may not use spirits to attack the enemy citadel. In short, no spamming the citadel with spirits. Any player doing this will have their entire team disqualified for that game giving a win to the opposing team."
If someone has a better way of phrasing that rule, I'm all ears.
Let's finalize the prize for participation. It's going to go to 1 individual. $20/$30/$40. Vote please.
$20
$30
$40
idk.. to do that with a minion build, you have to be at least lvl 12 for shield 3, and have the hp to survive the creep waves hitting you as well as whoever comes to push you out. It just seems to me like saying not a single spirit can attack the cit is like saying beast can't spit on the citadel, or tb can't use anything other than auto-attack on the cit. As long as they don't run away but leave their minions on the cit, it's not too hard to push them out and have the citadel heal back up before they can come back again.
I just don't see the need to punish hybrid oak, who purposefully chose to get spirits to add to his personal dps. He's not doing anything unfair by using them to attack with himself.
By forcing the minion oak player to be attacking the citadel when his minions are, you don't have to kill the minions, but rather push the minion oak out (which is much, much easier than pushing out a normal oak who you typically see doing the "attack a tower.. shield / port"). If he runs away, his spirits do no damage, problem solved.
Basically this is like a fine print footnote. It miiight apply to like 1 game played. They don't highlight something like "you will be dq'd from a wrestling competition if you win by pulling a gun and killing your opponent" but it's there somewhere in the extended rules.
I agree with what you're saying, but the broader you make the rule, the more complicated it will be for players to use it the right way. And like pacov said, a lot of silly replays will be reviewed by the committee. So you're saying when the oak gets pushed back he has to take his minions off instantly every time, what if he leaves his minions on the citadel for a couple of seconds and because he did not have the time to pull them off right away? I mean it makes sense, but is just a weird feeling and very difficult to judge for each player. Also a spitting ub can be pushed back, but his spit won't stay on the citadel for a long long time beccause it's impossible to get rid of the spit. same is for tb. with the minion oak you're forcing the player to control his minions instantly back and forth which is just weird in my opinion.
That is kind of silly. Do we need to ban dropping wards near the cit? A swarm of spirits might "accidentally" attack the cit on their own when the creeps get novaed, and lag might "accidentally" prevent a command to the spirits to disengage immediately.
This will be especially problematic if you have idols, because 1/2 the time the selection hot keys take multiple hits to work. "oops sorry, I thought I only ordered my monks and siege to attack"
Basically, we are giving people a reason to try and evade the rules if they play a minion oak, and that is a bad policy. Kinda like the tilt on a pinball machine, how much "forced manipulation" can you get away with.
Situation:
Crazy close game. Both teams have secured the other's portals and are banging relentless on each other's citadels. It's literally a race to see who can melt the other's citadels first. I'd argue in this situation it would be 100% okay for an Oak to use spirits to attack the citadel.
Or, what if you're running a hybrid and you're capping the Valor flag and just clearing Giants? What else can your spirits do? A stupid rule like "not even a single spirit can attack the citadel" is far too strong.
The only situation where a minion Oak intentionally suiciding himself to kill the citadel is really easy to do assumes he has Shield, enough HP to walk all the eay to the Valor flag, and quite possibly Last Stand as well. Also, "rushing the citadel" IS a viable strategy and should be done in certain cases, regardless of what demigod you are (eg, enemy citadel is at 5,000 HP, your whole team should just rush it and nuke it. This is countered by the defending team very quickly purchasing the Citadel HP upgrades).
I think this is just clamping down on the rules too much. I think that if an Oak's spirits are attacking the citadel while Oak is just in the vicinity there isn't a problem with it at all.
Rule Suggestion:
"In the event of minion builds taking down a significant portion of the losing team's citadel, the losing teams may submit a replay of the game to the decision panel, along with a short paragraph describing the extent of the minion abuse and the particulars of why that game should be disqualified. The winning team may then offer a short rebuttal justifying the actions in game. For example, using spirits to kill the last 3,000 HP of a citadel while holding both portals may be a justifiable action.
The review panel will then watch the game and determine whether the winning team exercised significant minion abuse and they did not win through skill, but rather solely by minions attacking the citadel. The review panel may choose to grant the minion team an automatic loss, force the game to be replayed, or leave the game as-is"
Wait, What?!
So as Hybrid Oak who doesn't get Spirits till 11, I have to micro all my spirits, and just my spirits, off the citadel, if I have to retreat for health/mana or shop? Really?
I think we all know what a spirit-citadel rush is, and know when someone is being a dink, and when someone is just playing a character the way he is meant to be played. Can we be realistic about this please? If someone is being a dink, submit the replay. Just don't be an equal dink everytime an Oak buzzes your citadel with a stray spirit and cry "Foul!"
I honestly can't believe people are saying "Oak can't touch the Citadel with spirits."
precisely baddaddy. Pretty much everyone knows what's going on.. saying no spirit-citadel rush should be sufficient.
I vote $40 in "prizes" from impulse.1 copy of X, Y and Z, to be given out to 3 random players.1 player prize is not enough to ensure participation if the odds are bad. But 3 certainly is.
And all that my "stupid" rule would avoid. Keeping it simple is almost always the best way.
However, if you guys have the time and fun with lots and lots of disputes, I say go for it. It is just a fact that minion oaks are frustrating because there is almost nothing that can kill the minions efficient enough, except ground spikes, torch bearer's and occs abilities I guess can cope with it, and UB's ooze (only if the spirits are focused on the beast.)
I mean on a pro lvl game, everything could go, I'm just worried about mid to high lvl games.
I have to agree with hedgie (and pacov) on this.
What we're trying to prevent is the early game spamming of the citadel with spirits. Only a few people in the game do it. It's a cheese tactic that we all know and hate. The primary builds for that type of cheese we're listed above. Making a blanket rule like "no spirits on citadel ever" will hurt a hybrid oak even further even though he is already a "high point" demigod.
j
I think that might be adequate and less of a pain in the butt. Believe me when I say I don't want to review silly replays because 2 spirits started hitting the citadel during an attack.
Stick to the actual options we have - which is taking money from the pot. SD has easily been more generous than anyone else at this point with regards to sponsorship. I'm not going back to them and asking for more money, or credits, or whatever. IMO that is in poor taste. If we have a follow up tournament and they are interested in sponsoring again, I'll go to them with some specific requests, but to be clear, the participation prize is coming out of the total pot.
How about: "~20min into the game no focused intended spirits can touch the citadel"?
Where the time can be changed maybe to 25min or 30min
"1 player prize is not enough to ensure participation if the odds are bad. But 3 certainly is."
I agree with this statement. Pacov, would you mind asking brad if they would be willing to throw in a few copies of "X"
(elemental, windowblinds etc.)
I know they've already done a lot and i hate to go back to them but we're trying to provide an incentive to the teams. One person winning wouldn't provide much of an incentive and if we add enough money to make it worthwhile then it will diminish the pot.
In the event that Brad says no, i recommend each person on one team gets $20 each.
Here's how I've rephrased the rule about oaks:
Sound good?
Ok - so the general opinion is that one entire team should be awarded the participation prize instead of an individual? Be aware that if the total pot is $600 or so, then the 3rd place winner will get $30 per person (15% of the pot) and the participation prize will be like 10% if we gave $20 per person (eg the same amount that the winner of the round robin would get). That's what you fellas want to do? See my response above if you wanted my feedback on asking SD for more.
edit - it might be good to define citadel rush though... sigh
Yes.
Citadel Rush: Attacking the opponents citadel with minions (i.e. any) before your team's creeps and demigods have effectively reached the citadel. If your demigod characters and creeps cannot survive long enough at the citadel to do more than negligible damage, your minions should not be attacking the citadel either.
"How about: "~20min into the game no focused intended spirits can touch the citadel"?"
Except some (unbalanced) games end sooner than this, with the whole team pounding on the citadel.
Voting 30$ and no spirits at all, considering towers AoE not working on them is a bug.
I agree... but at least its not as harsh as "Oak isn't allowed to have any minion based favor items!" so I guess we're making progress.
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