Welcome to the 2nd Demigod community tournament (Pacov's Last Stand) - rules and registration thread!
UPDATE 1: The scheduling thread has been opened. Please head over there and post when you are available to play: http://forums.impulsedriven.com/399006
UPDATE 2: A new version of uberfix is available AND is required for the tournament. Please see here and download/install: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399037
UPDATE 3: The RESULTS thread has been opened. Please head over there to track your wins/losses/replays: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399047
Update 4: Registration is now closed. Alternates are still allowed, but no new teams will be allowed to register at this point.
Update 5: Added ventrilo (voice chat) server information for those of you that would like to use voice chat. It also helps in finding people that are ready to play their matches!
Update 6: The replay commentaries/discussions thread has been opened: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399150. Check this thread out for news on live streaming events during the tournament along with commentaries and video for some of the games in this tournament!
This thread will cover all of the relevant rules and registration information. Please see below for all of the details.
The tournament began on 10/16/2010. Please be aware that this tournament will not begin and end on 10/16/2010. It will actually take several weeks to complete.
Background
In April 2010, we started our first community demigod tournament. The tournament was 2v2 and certain demigod selections were restricted. The tourney carried a crash prize donated by people in the community and was won by the two man team of zen_god and King_of_thorns. For more details on that tourney, read up here: (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/380837).
Tournament Format
Tournament Rules
Alternates
Prize
There will be a cash prize > $600. Jongalt will be handling the collection of the money for this tournament. We are discussing the prize money in this linked thread: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/398009. We appreciate any contributions to the prize. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY TO PLAY IN THIS TOURNEY.
Here is how we will be splitting the winnings from the pot:
Demigod Selection
Each 3 man team must use the following formula to make their Demigod character selections based on a 7 point maximum. Be aware that no duplicate demigods are permitted on the same team. This means you cannot choose random.
Tournament Time Zone
The official time zone of the tournament is set for EST US time. Players that are outside of that timezone are certainly welcome to play. However, if there are significant scheduling difficulties due to players unable meet at the same time, the team furthest outside of the EST zone will most likely be disqualified or forfeit that match. This rule does not excuse folks in the EST zone from any responsibility. All parties in this tournament should endeavor to schedule their matches with other teams and try to be as flexible as possible.
Decision Making Panel
This tournament will be governed by a decision making panel consisting of pacov, McShane, hedgie with Jongalt as an alternate. The panel's purpose is as follows:
The panel's decision on all matters will be the final word for this tournament. And last, the members of the decision making panel will not make any decisions on the games they are playing in. We didn't have a panel in place for the first tournament and that was a mistake.
How will we handle crashes
If there is a game crash, the players involved in that match should see if they can come to a consensus on the probable outcome of the match. If there is no clear winner, the 2 teams should replay the match using the exact same demigods and sides (light/dark). If there was a clear winner at that point in the game, then that team should be awarded the win. If the 2 teams disagree on the outcome, then the decision making panel will review the replay of the match and render a decision. Be aware that the decision making panel must agree that a specific team was going to win or the results will be thrown out and the match redone. Please be thoughtful if you want the panel to review a match.
How we will handle invalid game states
The lastgamereplay file is still created in the event of an invalid game state, so it is still possible to review the results of a match. In the event of an invalid game state, players should attempt to resolve the issue exactly the same way as game crashes. If you believe foul play occurred, submit the replay along with any screen shots, etc, as evidence and the decision making panel will review. If there is a CLEAR consensus that a team is willingly triggering invalid game states, that team will be disqualified after a thorough review of the facts and will no longer be able to participate in the tournament. If your game does crash, it might be advisable to take a screen shot of the crash as proof. Be aware that we know invalid game states can occur without any sort of foul play, so please be mindful when submitting requests for review.
Current Teams:
Registered Alternates:
Please be aware that other players are elligible to be an alternate based on the rules outlined in the alternates section. I've simply left this list here so teams will know at least a few of the players that might be available as alternates.
For any of you that would like to use it, we have a public ventrilo (voice chat) server that you are welcome to use for the tournament. Even if you don't have a microphone, if only 1 person on your team does, it can be very useful to use voice chat (at least 11 of the registered teams will be using voice chat. Why not you too?
Here's all of the info you need to get started:
Here is where you can download the client (its free): http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php
Here are instructions on how to use ventrilo to connect to a server: http://www.ventrilo.com/setup.php
And here's the needed server info:
Server Name: Lagwar's Ventrilo ServerHostname: oxygen.typefrag.com Port: 50216
I have created some password protected channels for those of you that would like to use the server. Scroll down until you see channel Oh My Demigod. You will then see tournament channel 1/2/3. The password for these channels are demigod. Let me know if you have any questions.
Great! Glad to hear your formed a team! Adding you guys now.
so - we are now up to 11 teams and 12 individual players that need to form a team.
Keep the teams coming, fellas! Thanks to everyone that has registered.
I really would like to see a Rawr,kalel, hedgie team in the tourney. Just throwing out there.
Dito - kalel seemed QUITE adamant that he didn't want to participate, but time will tell
sounds good to me.
I vote for playoff sugestion 2 and pot split 3 (surprise, surprise)!
Well my team is either abornexile and shreddy. Or kalel and ninki.
Can I sign up as a singleton for now? I might be able to get 2 of my friends who quit ages ago to play in this (if they still have the game lmao), but if not, I guess I'll group with randoms.
There's got to be something more fair than robbing a team of points just because their former opponents drop out. Let's say two teams A and B, have each won four matches 2-1 so have 8 points each. One of team A's former opponents, team C drops out, reducing team A's points to 6. True, B doesn't have a chance to play C for points, but what if in non-tourney games it had become pretty clear that team C was better than B and would have won (let's say they didn't rage quit, but they couldn't continue for scheduling reasons). B is now ahead of A, whereas if C had stayed in, A would be tied (or in the lead, if they were able to beat whoever B had played while they were playing C.)
It isn't fair to give a team points when they get an opportunity for extra games, but it also isn't fair to take away points for legitimate victories. Maybe if part of everyone's record was how many games they had won but lost points on, just in case it actually makes a difference come playoff time, the judges can decide what to do then.
EX. Team A 8(2)-4: 8 wins (2 discounted wins) and 4 losses
(BTW, well-played games last night nomilarac.)
I would possibly, maybe, potentially be up for this.
omicron is looking for teamates spectre!
what was spectre's name before he changed, I don't remember
wallstop
BDaddy: Its not going to be fair no matter how we handle the issue.
But... it will be less unfair if we just void any matches with teams that drop out. Much simpler as well.
You see, there will be quite a few teams that are going to be like paper rock and scissors IMO. To say that since Team A beat Team B, and Team B beat Team C, then Team A would have beat Team C is not true.
It might be likely, probable, almost for sure, whatever... but if I'm on Team C I want a chance to play Team A and get my points.
Right, Thunder, that is what I was trying to say in a convoluted way. I just thought it might be a good idea to keep track of those removed points on the off-chance we get to the finals and it is an issue. I just think it is hard to imagine and prepare for all the possible scenarios now. I'm all for simplicity.
Hi Pacov,
Please register Jorune2112 as well. He will be on my team and we will search for one more.
Thanks,
Ouch
BDaddy: I think I understand... so if say my team drops out, but we managed to play the two top place teams before we did and got swept by one and took a game but still lost to the other... we should still keep track of that for tiebreaking purposes? That sounds good to me.
Anyone else have any thoughts on the issue? Still don't see anything about it in the OP.
Hey guys - I've been out of town with limited access to the internet, but am back now. I'll get the registration sorted out either later tonight or tomorrow. I'll respond to those PM's a few of you sent as well.
I fully agree that we need to come up with a system that handles teams that just quit the tourney after a few games. I think the most logical thing we be for ALL teams that participate in the tournament to get to play the exact same amount of games. So, let's say that there will be a total of 20 games in the round robin (made up number if you didn't figure that out). Let's say my team quits after 5 games played because we took 5 straight loses and are now sick of it. So, if we did nothing, the teams that beat us would have a statistical advantage over everyone else because they didn't get the opportunity for a extra win. It's not exactly fair to take away a win and its not fair to deprive the other teams of a chance at a win. So, I don't know... we'd have to give the teams that didn't have a chance for a win chance to fight bonus games against a team with the relative skill of the team that quit. That sounds like a bit of a nightmare to sort though. If we don't bottom something out, though, this will fall to the decision making panel to make a ruling if teams drop out on a case by case basis.
please sort when possible and tell me 1 team.
Sure thing, busdude. I'm adding you to the roster.
added jorune2112
I'd like to start posting some basic availability information next to each team that has registered. Please get with your teams and reply here with when you are TYPICALLY available to get your games in - please translate the time to eastern standard. For instance, M-F 7PM-1AM EST Sat 10AM-2AM EST Sun 4PM-11PM EST. Something like that... I want it for your actual team, not just individuals.
Unfortunately the fairest thing to do is when a team drops out, which is inevitable, then anyone who has played them and won has the points removed from their overall score.
Just for an example, 20 teams enter, teams 11-20 drop out. Then the 10 teams that are left are only compared to each other and the games they played against each other. The only possible exception would be if all of the remaining teams played a team that has dropped out. (i.g. team #20 drops out but teams #1-10 have already played team #20)
All games will be transparantly tracked and posted via google docs and no data will be deleted. If we get to a point where there is a tie, and say that tie is between teams #1, #3 and both played team #20 (who dropped out) then we can decide at that point if those games have any merit or if team #1 & team #3 should just play again for the tie breaker.
"games against a team with the relative skill of the team that quit."
Unfortunately this is too subjective to be fair.
j
http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc
http://www.doodle.com
hmm... perhaps the math part of my brain isn't working yet today, but couldn't a vindictive team just decide to withdraw in order to potentially drop a team out of a top slot if we go with your "points removed" scheme? Hoping my math makes no sense...
Edit - I guess it would be as if that team had never played, but a team would have the power to quit the tourney and could change the top slots (let's say team A is going to quit. Team A lost 3 games to Team B. Team A lost 1 game to Team C and won 2 games. Prior to team A quitting the tourney, we'll say the points were team A = 5. Team B = 10 and Team C = 9. Team A quits - This changes the score to team B = 7 and Team C = 8. So, just like that, a team could influence the final results by choosing to quit instead of playing things out. Anyway, that's the 1 flaw with removing points from the overall score. It actually gives some influence to people who would just quit the tourney - and I'm not really a fan of that. So, you make a logical point that removing the team completely is probably the simplest thing to do (and perhaps fair), but a team that knows they have no chance of winning could skew the results if we allow for this system.
Pacov, this is possible but most unlikely. The reason is that team B should have an over all better score, if they are a better team. If all teams in the tournament were of equal skill in a perfect world, then I would say yes this is a big issue. On the other hand I think the decision making panel committee can weight that too if this will actually happen in the tournament and make their decision.
I think jon's approach is the best possible one. You cannot force anyone to play their tournament.
That's what I was trying to say.
I teach English, not Math, but how about taking an average of the points they have given up and distributing them to the teams who have not played them? Say Team D drops out after losing 3 games to A, 2 to B and 2 to C. That would give 2.33 points (7 points given up divided by 3 teams) to all the teams who haven't played them. Or, we could give that minus 0.5 points, or 1.83 points, so that teams that actually win real games earn slightly more than teams who win by forfeit.
Or is this mathematically the same thing as removing their points altogether?
Pacov - Yes, a team that drops out of the tourney could influence the outcome of the tourney per your description. The fairness would be that the final teams that are left are compared to each other only.
I think that in the case that all of the remaining active teams have played the teams who have decided to drop out, then those points could remain on the board.
In your example all 3 teams played each other, lets add a 4th in there to expand.
Team A = 5 points
Team B = 10 Points
Team C = 8 Points
Team D = 7 points
Team A lost 3 games to Team B. (Team B gets 3 points)
Team A lost 1 game to Team C (Team C gets 1 point)
Team D didn't play team A at all.
My Proposed system: Team A drops and all of the points are removed
Team B = 7 Points
Team C = 7 Points
Now these teams will have to duke it out to figure out who the winner is.
Another option would be to really try to get team A to play Team D before they drop out then the points can remain. Assuming Team d wins 2 of the games we would have:
Team D = 9 points
Both of the options would be fair since each teams placement is relative to each other based on the exact same number of games and against the exact same opponents.
Any other way would almost have to be a method where the outcome of the tournament would be based on an esoteric calculation or subjective view by the panel.
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