Hey All,
I got the game and then was away from the internet for two weeks, so I have missed all the fallout until now. I just wanted to say that I have been loving this game. I have put in about 50 hours of the sandbox mode and have finished the campaign, so I feel. I have some credibility when it comes to passing some judgement. Sure, there are a lot of issues, big and small, with the game right now, but the bottom line from my experience is that it is really FUN, and that's ultimately what matters. Even though it crashes more often than I'd like, I'm always eager to restart and play the next turn. Even though the AI makes some dumb decisions, I still find it fun to crush them, and move on to the next enemy.
Just my two cents - I'm sorry that the reviewers and many of the commenters have been unable to see past the problems and judge the game based a little more on the fact that it really can capture the imagination of a player in a way that has been missing from PC gaming for a long time.
I wanted to say thanks to Brad and the whole Stardock team, and good luck! I look forward to playing this for a long time - and can't wait to see all the changes as the game evolves.
Glad you're liking it.
Over time, we're going to be adding a lot of cool additional features that we hope you'll really like.
Here'a a few examples:
1. The magic system is going to get a lot more interesting in terms of spells and how they work.
2. The quests will get a lot more interesting as players are able to start entering dungeons during quests.
3. The AI is going to get a lot better and more sophisticated (i.e. not just more challenging but more interactive)
4. If you have friends, you will be able to play games that have virtual cloud storage (This should be turned on this week assuming base memory issues are addressed).
And everything I just mentioned you'll get in free updates.
Thanks again!
What is virtual cloud storage??
Basically, you can access "your stuff" from any computer.
For some reason I found that amusing.
Anyway, sounds like lots of good stuff on the way. I'm eager to hear how you guys are reworking the magic system, but I guess I'll have to wait until your dev journal on the subject. I know one of your requirements on magic is that the AI must be able to handle it well, but I'd like to say one thing - sometimes just having some cool %@$# trumps having the AI deal with it well.
Yeah, I agree about the game being fun even with it's issues. Most end product games I buy give me less enjoyment than elemental has. People just seem to get caught up in the bad and totally miss all the good things.
I'm enjoying it too. REALLY enjoying it now that I used a player mod to make the game run better (the 4GB allocation). It's a blast!
Brad, stick with it and Elemental will come out a success in the end. Don't give up on it no matter what anyone says!
Can someone give me a reasonable explanation about what is 'fun' currently about this game? The AI is pathetically easy to beat, the campaign is ridiculously short and there is no way to play against a human opponent.
Seriously, I really, really, really want to like this game, but after playing 3 sandbox games now, I just have 0 interest to start another as I know exactly how it will go...
1) It's unique
2) Can create my own lore (sovereigns, heroes, kingdoms...)
3) I find the whole gameplay fun (scouting, settling, building, mobilizing)
4) Modding
It needs work (tactical battles, AI, more complexity) but it feels like a fantasy Civ game where I have more control then I would in... say, FFH.
But, just like any other game out there, you're either gonna like it or your not going to like it.
How is it unique? What exactly is unique about it? It's a 4x game and that isn't unique. It has a very simplistic tactical combat which is nothing new, the spell system is nothing new. The tech branches are uninspired and definitely have a 'been there done that feel' even when they aren't giving X% boost to resource Y. The only thing really novel about it that I can see is the lack of a distinction between the 'city' view and the map view, which I guess is cool, but I'm not sure I would call the entire game 'unique' because of it.
Create your own lore? What does that mean? You mean you have the ability to create a new 'leader' and give him points for various things based on a points pool? If you are talking about that, then yes, it's a nice feature, however the shallowness of what stats actually affect and redundancy and blandness of spells really takes a lot out of that. It's fun for about 2 seconds given the imbalance and bugs. If the spell system gets more complex and flavorful, then this feature might shine. Might need to rework what stats do and maybe introduce skills as an alternative to magic (and for those heroes without magic).
The 4x side of the game play is pretty standard, there isn't anything special about it. And that's about as kind as I can be about it. I won't bash the quest depth and diversity and lack of equipment too much, suffice it to say that currently, I just don't see anything that makes me go 'wow' about the 4x side of things.
Modding. That one I may concede. It DOES appear that tools for modding seem fairly accessible although I haven't tinkered with those tools too much so I don't know. I guess we will see how that shakes out, but unless I just missed something, it's a bit early to call modding the savior of elemental.
I appreciate your post and attempt to explain what is fun to you, but 'you will either like or not' isn't quite what I was looking for. I would think that all the people saying "this game is AWESOME' would be able to point to a few concrete things and say "Yes, but did you look at THIS? This piece is REALLY cool, try looking at it this way!" or something...
Again, I just can't seem to find that engaging element (no pun intended) that others have. And although I do see stability issues, they don't bother me as I save often and aggressively adjust autosave. I'm trying not to consider stability at all in my assessment of what is fun here.
Some peoples glass is half full, others still are half empty. Wayninja's glass is shattered.
That's actually not all that far from true. However, please note that it didn't start that way...
Maybe you need to step back a bit and not see it for what it doesn't do, but for what it does. A lot of times people get so worked up in their heads about what the expect and get down when it does not turn out to be that way.
I accept the game for the way it is now, its fun for me. It will be more fun with improvements though;)
the operative term in this statement is "I"..
I agree 100% with James009D on his points, however that is my (operative term "my") opinion.. We do not all find the same foods tasty, books interesting, or enjoy the same sports. it is an opinion. No less valid or correct then yours is for you, for the person voicing just different..
I find it fun.. and have been playing it non stop since its was available.. Each patch made changes so I restarted and be gain again..I look forward to where its heading. I am sorry that you do not seem to agree but I respect that...
I'm not trying to say anyone's opinion is invalid, I simply can't seem to get anyone to clearly articulate one. The best I seem to get is 'it just is fun'. Ok, I guess that work for some people.
@Rune - What it doesn't do is getting in the way of what it does. For example, and as stated elsewhere, it's bit difficult for me to analyze the multiplayer at the moment. But that aside, even the things I can try to evaluate seem horribly broken or simply too confusing to be any fun. Why should I get a more expensive healing potion over salted pork? Why can I equip an entire army of adventurers with legendary armor, but not a single 'normal' troop without elementium? How can I effectively choose which bonus I should take at city-level-up time without memorizing each of my towns strengths/weaknesses/names? I can go on and on, what is not there is just too invasive to evaluate what is there beyond tech-demo depth.
I can accept most of these flaws and continue to play anyway. But I just don't see where the 'fun' is. Is it in beating the pathetic AI over and over? Is it building a massive army while the AI basically does nothing? Is it doing the same few quests over and over or leveling up my soverigns to level 30 even though I can wipe everything out by level 5 or so?
Meh, I'm starting to believe that the people who find it fun, would most likely find it fun no matter what. I'm looking forward to the future too, which is why I did not ask for a refund, I just don't get how other folks could feel that it's basically fine as is... kinda perplexing to me.
I find it entertaining because its Not civ 4 its a different dynamic in humorous kinds of ways. I am so burned out on that game after years of playing. It makes a good hold me off till my copy of Civ 5 arrives. All games are just a temporary stop till Star Wars: The old Republic, because if that lives up to its potential I surmise it will be like wow for me. WoW got her claws in me for over 4 years. I didn't play a single other game hardly, and I can foresee that possibly happening with SW:TOR. Don't let me down Bioware...
I think you've got it a little off base here. I wouldn't say anyone here thinks the game is done, no issues, rainbows and sparkle ponies. I just think a lot of people have a high amount of respect for Stardock and a good deal of patience. Personally, I'm willing to look past memory issues, the game crashing, and some lackluster features because its glaringly obvious how much ridiculous potential this game has. Couple that with Stardock's practically zealous attitude towards improving the game and most people will become a-okay with waiting it out and just enjoying what the game has to offer for now.
To be fair, every game has potential... In fact, anything that isn't implemented or is broken is simply potential. Seems like a platitude to me.
Sorry, but seeing stuff like "I'm having a blast!" and "This game is awesome!" seem a bit more like practical fun being had and less theoretical potential, respect and patience. The latter I understand, it's the former that has me puzzled. But again, I'll just go back to my theory that there are some folks on here that love it unconditionally.
Well this is your problem right there.
Sure, i have no idea why i would buy a healing potion over a pork. But does that bother me? I have more pressing issues to adress. There is a bandit who appeared at the edge of my lands, and the capital is undefended because the sovereign is escorting a pioneer through the wilds! Oh noes oh noes. Shall i teleport the sovereign back home to deal with the bandit? But he has only enough mana for one teleport! If the pioneer perishes, Umber will beat me to that gold mine in the east, and that one is vital for my plans, as the shrill hive i discovered last turn needs 200 gold to be built! But wait! There is a neutral hero entering my lands just far enough to intercept the bandit. How much gildar does she want? 49? Fantastic, i can just barely afford her! The day is saved. Now, what was it about that pork? Can't remember...
See? You need to focus on what is there, get absorbed by the game, not constantly nitpick on stuff that does not work.
It's so silly to respond, but I just have to. None of it matters. None. The threat of scraping by like that is only in your mind, in the long run you will easily steamroll the AI, monsters and all. Even if it takes a few turns longer to get that shrill hive (which is is completely unnecessary as well). The AI just isn't smart enough to stop a steady build up and steamroll completely breaking the illusion of any early game tension... at least that's the way all my games have gone.
The healing/pork is just 1 of 100 or so inexplicable, poorly documented or otherwise broken things that add nothing to the game besides confusion or monotony. Which is doubly frustrating because I can definitely imagine, if a little more thought were put into it, why pork might be strategically advantageous over the healing potion. Don't focus too much on this example, I'm not. It's just more grist for the WTF mill.
If you think this is a 'nitpick' then you are simply playing too much of the game in your mind and not enough of it on the machine.
I totatly agree with you on that.
I think what they are trying to say is that it has its fun "points"...... that is a better way to articulate it. In no way do I find the whole game fun at its current status. For example... things I do enjoy about the game.
1. City building. Although not perfect at its current status, it is probably the most unique feature over other 4x games. You will have to admit, but there is more strategy to how you build your city in this game than other 4x games. Takes a bit more planning, in my opinion (even though it is a bit annoying due to the UI).
2. The very core fundimentals of the game (even though they are a bit flawed): 1) has a unit designer, plenty of 4x games with unit designer, but how many Fantasy 4x games out there with a unit designer? 2) complex economy (or it tries to have a complex economy, you can argue it doesn't quite succeed) 9 different resources (if you count prestige, population, and influence) and they don't all function the same 3) Has a stronger than most 4x RPG element (besides games like MoM or AoW series very few 4x games have a more complex RPG element)
3. THE BIGGEST REASON I LIKE THIS GAME: the genre is rare.... yes there are very few fantasy 4x games out there. I like the genre.
Everything else needs alot of work I think.
Yes, this is true. However the games greatest uniqueness comes from the fact that not many other 4x games have TRIED to impliment all of Elemental`s features at the same time (at least non-that I can think of). For example Civ 4... awesome game, but lacked unit design and tactical combat. Age of Wonders 2.... great tactical combat, but again no unit design. Galactic Civilization 2 had a unit designer, but didn't really have any tactical combat.
Emphasis on the word "tried".... I don't think it has been successful yet. But I am optimistic as of the latest patch things have improved significantly....
Good post, I think I see how some people could like it for the parts rather than the sum. I'm a sum kinda guy, myself, but I can accept that not everyone else is. Also good job explaining what you find unique about it. I disagree with you slightly about City building... It doesn't really take more planning. The potential I guess is there if stuff were tweaked/working, but you could easily get by with a 'build everything you can' approach because the AI is so bad. I guess when multiplayer arrives, that won't be the case, but the SP game makes almost anything but the most basic strategy overkill.
I agree that the unit designer is VERY cool and a great idea, but once again, problems really mar the luster. Equipment for the units is all over the place ranging from illogical tech advancement to soldiers that look like rapstars with 500 rings and amulets. I even't went so far as to name one of my archer units Chamillionaire. The stats for the units are difficult to understand as well as the groups. The rule of thumb that 'bigger is better' applies nicely, but that's hardly a tacticians fantasy.
The 9 different resources are very flawed... one of them (prestige) doesn't seem to affect ANYTHING other than that initial marriage proposal making it basically useless after that, and another (elementium) is so rare that by the time you get to that point in the game to build any units with it, the outcome of the game is a foregone conclusion.
Again, as others have stated, there is lots here that COULD be good, but just simply isn't. If I didn't think these things would be ironed out eventually, I wouldn't still be here. But the fact remains that we are 2 weeks out from launch, 3 (or is it 4) patches from release and the game just still reeks of missed opportunities. I'm very happy for the folks that can ignore the smell.
But i am playing the game for the 'now', not for the 'in the long run'. If there is a problem in the game by turn 30 that challenges my strategic skills, i don't really care that by turn 350 i will steamroll the AI, i'm enjoying the moment.
You say i'm playing the game 'in my mind'. I say that is the right way to play games!
haha, excellent gameplay summary there stax77. That's how I play the game too. If you just go turn to turn clicking the button and doing the first thing that comes to mind... maybe TBS strategy gaming and especially Elemental isn't your cup of tea. A lot of thought should be going into the game, thats where it becomes a challenge, and that's when it becomes fun.
Lol, maybe you just aren't reading what I'm writing. I've been playing TBS games for over 15 years, I'm pretty sure I know if they are my cup of tea or not. There is NO challenge here. I'm not just doing the first thing that comes to my mind and clicking end turn, although, I could and still win. That's exactly my point. There is simply no 'tension' for me to salvage those first early turns when I'm tying to explore and still maintain a proper defense of my cities. Because the only difference it makes is the total number of turns before I decide to crush the AI.
A good example of what I'm talking about is MOO2. In that game you really do have think about expansion vs defense, and you got your ass handed to you if you get it wrong. If you get it wrong here, no big deal, you can easily climb out.
You say that's the right way to play? I say playing strategy games 'for the long run' is the right way to play. It's called strategy. If the long run is predetermined, then it makes very little difference how I play this particular turn, assuming I don't just charge the enemy with only my sovereign (a tactic the AI enjoys). If that is exciting for you, more power to you.
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