Our story so far…
On August 24th, Stardock released the long-anticipated PC strategy game Elemental on schedule…
Except, of course, that’s not quite what happened. Stardock released the game a couple days early to beta testers and pre-order customers – the same version reviewers were given (v1.0) and the results were painful in two basic ways:
1. The new engine that Stardock developed turned out to have a lot of compatibility problems resulting in crashing and out of memory errors for a significant percentage (I’d go as far as to say as many as 30% of users – which is a gigantic number – anything over 5% is considered unacceptable). It’s not commonly known but the engine in our previous games (GalCiv II, The Political Machine, etc.) was developed originally in 1997 and enhanced over the years. Nowadays, most companies just license their engine from Gamebryo (Civilization V, Oblivion, Fallout 3) or the Unreal engine. You are now seeing why they do.
2. The above ensured ruinous reviews but even without them, the game UI and some of the game mechanics just didn’t live up to people’s expectations, and AI issues.
The purpose of this blog is to help answer questions so that we can move forward.
So here are some of the questions / comments I’ve gotten in emails and private messages and on various forums that I’ll try to answer:
Q: What is Stardock’s plan for Elemental going forward?
A: For the immediate future we’re going to go down two paths. First, the v1.0x versions will continue to focus largely on compatibility (crashing or weird video issues) as well as bugs and turning on multiplayer.
Then, we will work on v1.1 which will serve as our answer to player feedback. Enhanced AI, improved UI, a tutorial, updated quest system, new magic system, numerous other tweaks. This version will serve as the basis to make a demo version of the game.
Beyond that, we will be looking at player feedback. That will work towards v1.2 (October) and v1.3 (November). Once we are satisfied that the game has met reasonable expectations, we can then focus on the first expansion pack: Elemental: War of Magic – Book 2, Cerena.
Unlike Book 1, which is fairly short because it’s only meant as a kind of introduction (the game is mean to be played in sandbox mode. GalCiv and Sins of a Solar Empire didn’t even include campaigns, we are generally not very pro-campaign-y people as you can gather, campaigns have limited replayability).
Book 2, Cerena is the excuse to introduce more far reaching game mechanic changes and begin to add in the multiplayer modes we have long been thinking of (from custom servers that yes, will work on your LAN that has no Internet connection) to tactical-only modes.
That first expansion pack will be free to everyone who owns the game at the point of v1.3.
Q: Stardock should just put out an expansion and re-release the game as a Director’s Cut.
A: NO. While we do intend to release future new versions of Elemental beyond the War of Magic series, we will not be re-submitting Elemental “patched and fixed” for re-review.
A lot of people seem to think that Stardock knowingly released the game “full of bugs”. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case. As people who have played through the various versions can attest, weird stuff is very machine specific. For instance, the illustrative outline on graphics causes no difference (not even 1 frame) on our test matrix machines and yet results in 20+ frames for others who have, on the surface, similar hardware configurations for us. The PC Gamer UK reviewer ran into a white tactical battle screen that we had never encountered before (nor had it shown up during the public beta).
The low metacritic score for Elemental (about 3 out of 5 average) needs to serve as a long-term reminder to us and anyone else who might think that you can simply put out a major retail game in 2010 with its own custom engine without a massive massive long-term beta program and a long-term QA process. If you can’t do that, then either license your engine or don’t expect people to shell out $50.
Put another way, the blistering feedback on Elemental: War of Magic should serve as a scarlet letter to make us “never forget”. So no, no re-launch of Elemental: War of Magic. It is, what it is.
For fans who are disheartened, look at on the bright side. We will be able to see how much effect word of mouth is. If we do a good job making the game live up to its potential and expectations, then we can see what effect that has on sales. And we plan to share those details with you.
As it stands today, Elemental has sold approximately 82,000 copies.
Q: I heard Stardock is laying off people, I thought your non-games revenue funded the games team.
A: It does. It funds ONE games team. But Stardock has been hiring up across the board to build a second studio. Only Elemental can fund that. “Stardock” is made up of 3 groups: Enterprise software (our #1 revenue source), Consumer software (Object Desktop, Fences, etc.) and Consumer Entertainment (the games). That’s not counting Impulse which is a separate, profitable entity that doesn’t get affected one way or the other by the success of the games or the enterprise software.
Q: Brad Wardell: You should just kill yourself! [I actually did get this]
A: I’m sorry our recent entertainment product didn’t meet your expectations but I don’t think it would be helpful if I manually modified my date of expiration.
Q: Brad Wardell – you have a martyr complex! You always take personal blame for everyone! Get off your cross! [yes, got this too]
A: That is my job. If you’re going to spend years railing about CEOs not taking responsibility when something goes wrong, it would be the height of hypocrisy for me not to take responsibility when things go badly on a launch.
In addition, some of the issues are directly related to my specific decisions.
Q: Your act is getting old. Fool me once on Demigod, fool me twice, shame on me! [got this too in various forms]
A: The Demigod debacle ultimately resulted from a fundamental communication failure between the publisher (Stardock) and the developer (Gas Powered Games). It took us a long time to figure out exactly how the connectivity issue occurred (i.e. many months). Ultimately, and sadly, it boiled down to a miscommunication. When you host a game in Demigod (even now), you are given a dialog for your port #. It was believed by the Stardock team that Demigod handled direct IP connections and thus its raknet based port system would only be used when that failed. GPG, by contrast, thought Stardock was handling direct connections too. It turned out that that port # part (even now) doesn’t have a function and so 100% of connections attempts when to the Raknet system which overwhelmed it.
The reason why Stardock rightly took the blame is because, as the publisher, we should have looked at the beta tester connectivity logs and seen that 100% of connections were being passed to Raknet for the socket rather than the 10% anticipated. Add tens of thousands of users quickly and bam. A different system had to be developed.
But Demigod didn’t suffer from compatibility issues. It was very solid right out of the gate (for pretty much everyone) and was an excellent game on day 1. GPG did a great job making a great game. And Stardock did do a good job making a good backend. But one miscommunication between developers resulted in disaster. Only a much larger beta test would have discovered the problem. The system wasn’t “buggy”. Not that it does anyone any good now, but at least people can see and learn from what happened.
Point being, the situations are not similar.
With Elemental, the issue is the game itself. With Elemental’s MP, the system works because from day 1, Elemental’s servers are just hosted by Stardock. No P2P.
Q: What do YOU think of Elemental?
A: Elemental is the finest game we’ve ever released. Ever. At least, that's what I thought on the day we released it. However, I have come to the painful conclusion that we will have to dedicate more effort to making the game live up to the expectations of our customers as a whole. You'd be surprised how easy it is to confuse the enjoyment of making a game to the enjoyment of playing it.
Q: My post was hidden on the forums! I have a right to post my anger!
A: No. No you don’t. Believe me when I say I speak from first hand experience, there are entire forums dedicated to letting people post about their anger about something. The Stardock forums have never ever been some forum of free speech. And they never will be. If you’re looking for that, you should go elsewhere. I’ve been moderating “forums” since my Commodore 64 days as a “Sysop” and “Subop”. A few toxic users can wreck a community.
If someone needs/wants technical support, has a question, has a suggestion, wants to interact with the community, that’s great. Go for it. But if your purpose is to vent your rage on other users, us, the game, small animals, what have you, the moderates are instructed to take a very dim view of that.
After the release of v1.08 (this week) I intend to instruct moderators to be even more stringent on that sort of thing because we (as a community) need the Stardock developers themselves to participate on the forums.
While I have two decades of people telling me that I should kill myself or that <product X> is a “piece of shit” as well as various wishes that I get cancer and die “bleeding from every orifice) (yes, there are people out there that post these things) my development team are just normal people who are excited to talk to gamers who have cool ideas and we’re not going to subject them to haters (and most haters don’t have any idea they’re being hateful). Rule of thumb: Just treat people as if they’re right in front of you.
Q: You’re getting screwed in the reviews! I can’t believe <website X> wrote <Y>
A: NO. We’re not getting screwed. While some of the review scores do have a bit of “dogpiling” to them (relative to review scores given to other games) I have yet to read a single review that I felt was unfair in terms of the text.
If anything, I feel bad about putting some of my friends through this. It’s no secret that Tom Chick and Troy Goodfellow are friends of mine. The question isn’t how I feel about them criticizing or giving negative reviews of the release version of Elemental. The question is how they felt having to give a negative review of a game of someone who’s their friend? It’s called integrity. I’ll take a 1 friend who will tell it like it is over a 100 yes men.
So when I read the reviews, my first reaction isn’t anger but sorrow at having put people I respect through having to give something I know they were inclined to like and wanted to like through that. It’s also the reason I will not be re-submitting some “patched” version for review.
It also redoubles our collective efforts to live up to the standards we have set. We will be working on Elemental for a long time. We love it. We live it. And together, we will make it awesome.
Now, let’s move past the drama. Let’s do the things that need to be done going forward to have fun and create something that will stand the test of time.
I've been a huge SD fan since GC2. I'm an even bigger MoM fan so I eagerly pre-ordered Elemental. After being totally discouraged by the bad way beta was going and release I've been on the fence a while about contacting sales and getting a refund after the tremendous disappointment this has been.
This post and others have made me decide to stick with Elemental and see where it goes.
Long time reader, first time poster.
I commend you. You are attempting to connect with your consumers on a personal level. There are many side effects of doing this, and I can tell that your intentions are good. I respect that.
I also respect that you are attempting to commit to 'fix' Elemental. There are issues, and you know they exist. We all do. This hurdle is over with. The hurdle which matters is of realizing how DEEP these issues run.I am wondering how you can say "We're not talking tweaking. We're talking surgery." and also say in the same thread "A: Elemental is the finest game we’ve ever released. Ever. However, I have come to the painful conclusion that we will have to dedicate more effort to making the game live up to the expectations of our customers as a whole."
This tells me that your mindset is currently wrong, and I hope your mature enough to accept this. I am confused how the expectations of the consumers is the reason why the game is "bad". If you currently feel that the game needs surgery yet say it is the consumers that have different expectations, and you also say the game was perfect in your mind, how are you going to be able to achieve your goals yet are unable to solve your company issues to avoid the games current dilemma of the games current condition. I will not try to put words in your mouth of how this game come to be as it is at the moment, but something did go wrong, and that must be avoided. ( I hope it was not lack of communication.)
I really believe that you will be able to do great and wonderful things with Elemental, but I only believe this to be true if you can get past your mindset that this game was the best you ever released.
just too much drama
I think alot of you are being short sighted in saying is the best game he ever made. I think the only thing it really lacks is content, the engine is great and the ability to mod it is awesome. Now, fill it up...thats what it needs...it is very easy to add to the game, because of the way they developed it. So I think, and I may be wrong, that it is the best in regardes to what he can do with it. Now we only have to get to the point it realizes what can be done.
I was the one who was pushing for the re-release of EWOM, seeing your sales figures- I can understand why you are choosing not to.
How does that compare to GCII at this time, and is that a fair comparison?
My suggestion was really this: that when you release the 2nd XP, that you release that as a stand-alone, so that can be reviewed on its own merits- and you will get a very positive review of a game without major bugs. If a bad review is followed up by a great one, that will help more I think then just word of mouth.
I'm just afraid of the word of mouth not being as effective as you'd like to be honest. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, and since you're the CEO and I'm the dude working night shift weather, that's how it should be.
That said, I'll probably enjoy Elemental more as it improves over time. I think part of what made me really enjoy GalCiv was the small improvements over time, that kept the game fresh. Elemental should definitely stay fresh once you get 1.1 is out. I do plan to stay the course.
Not trying to cause drama, but I think one of the reasons you got bad PR, is that your policies were interpreted as 100% no matter what. You might want to make this a little more known in the future- I know I did not know, but then I wasn't looking for a refund.
I understand campaigns are kind of low priority for Stardock, but they add a depth and flavor to the world that a sandbox can't, and lets you tell a story and Elemental seems a lot about story. Plus, campaigns are how most people learn the basics, and forms their first impression of the game (probably reviewers too). When it comes to bugs, you can control campaign elements better so more polish in a shorter time.
The Relias campaign set the context of the elemental world well enough, but could have introduced things like researches--you could have had quests that require certain reseaches be done--and done more with building, and maybe thrown in a little diplomacy amongst the chapters--and also some strategic battles as well as tactical ones. This could have lead to a fuller and longer experience, and a better "tutorial", without having to add more content than is already there. Book 1 is a nice story but really, really sparse gameplay wise, hardly supporting the epic story it tells.
Now when it's all done;we have matter to write a book about Ewom launch .
Well, that said, one very important thing is to have you Brad post like this to keep us informed.That's very important because we need from time to time to know that you dont forgive us.
Now let's move on and get content.I know that you have your vision of the game,and that's normal,but dont forget us,the ones who remember MoM (omg i dare to say it ! ),it had failures but tactical,spells etc... would i am sure satify a lot of peoples.
Thx for the post and good luck for all the work to do.
Oh no he didn't! (With the didn't sounding very ebonic)
Frogboy,
you have to be one of the best CEO's, well, period.
Now, stop beating yourself up. Elemental may not be perfect, but it's damn high up in the list of the best TBS games ever made.
Some really critical things that need tweaking ...
Heros: too bland - give them some unique abilities that make them special to the land and/or attune them to specific elemental magic.
Army Units: to shallow - needs more focus on how to make each unit type useful and desired ... weapontype vs unittype stuff
Special Noteables: not enough uniqueness - things like Mad Morrigans Tower should appear in only one place or if more then one make them different.
Research: vauge/confusing - make it more clear what the difference is between Lore type discoveries and actual Technological type discoveries.
Strangely, the 2 following quotes from the OP ring in a similar way from me:
And it also rings strangely with the Galciv2 post-mortem on gamasutra http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060405/wardell_03.shtml especially the part about compatibility
I feel that Stardock hasn't grasped yet how they can leverage efficiently the various computer configurations from their beta testers. It seems also that Stardock should really introduce a classical beta test phase, to ensure that their game behave correctly on very different configuration.
BTW, concerning gameplay, the GC2 post-mortem has another interesting part:
Perharps Frogboy should compile all the post-mortems made about Stardock published games to serve as a guideline/reminder on how improving their QA and their open beta test phases to ensure a good release
I checked up on this game a few days ago and was happy to see it had been released (I don't follow gaming news, but I've been playing a lot of GalCiv2 lately.) I know from past experience that Stardock's games evolve over time, but was a bit surprised at the fiasco that occured. With that known, however, I decided to buy it anyway. I understand completely why people that bought the game in the first few days of release (or who preordered) are angry.
However, I guess the silver lining is that anyone who buys it now and going forward already knows what they're getting into. The game doesn't have that "just one more turn" magic for me yet, but I'm confident it will as the gameplay evolves. Good luck.
I think I just got my first "man crush" over Brad Wardell!
Seriously, I have always been an idealist and general disdain comes to mind whenever I think of ANY business, company, or corporate what-cha-mah-whoozits....the idea of profit at any cost, as long as it doesn't hurt future revenue has always defined the image of pure evil. (this has usually gone double for software companies)
Brad, and Stardock as a whole, has proven to be the exception and I can not tell you how wonderful that is! I simply can not put into words the level of respect I have for this company.(you have no idea how weird it is to type that phrase for me)
I do not own the game, yet, because frankly I have been one of the "wait til it gets a little more fixed" before I get it guys. But I never doubted that I would buy the game, eventually. Ever since I got GalCiv2, and then got that wonderful Sins of a Solar Empire, I have seriously considered becoming a monogamous software consumer loyal the the end to Stardock ONLY! Tonight, I make that pledge for real...*etches it in stone, writes down on the calendar when to get a "Stardock for life!" tatoo, and vows to name my next child "Brad" or "Stardock"*...to heck with EA, Blizzard, or Bethesda!
hehe....all kidding aside, the best way to honor the commitment you guys have to, not only your own software, but to bettering the software industry as a whole through example is to do so with LOYALTY. And for whatever it is worth, you have mine.
Thank you Stardock, and thank you Brad Wardell.
O well. Based on what I see at the moment I think personally that everything will be ok in the long run.
And that will be proven when I buy the additions.
One suggestion that I would make technical that is. Is that error reports should be a one click event and upload. So no more dependency on dropbox. Make a application that uses the UID and Password and upload all the info needed. That would generate more info from people who are non technical By pushing the send button that appears when the game starts and notices that it crashed..
Further the game itself has all the potential of being a great game. The problem with great games is that they become great after a few years when people forgot the pain of the start.
So keep on breathing and go on. So please do not accept any orders of Frogboy legs. We need them a bit longer, in worse case to carry all the stuff of Lady Frogboy.
To all the people who complain.. No pain, no gain. Stardock took a risk by starting something new and never done before. I am sure that the costs are not yet covered with the present sales. So we lose a bit of money when the game does not take of. But they lose name and a lot of money.
Its easyer to support them and make a great game then complain all the time and crush their hopes and energy.
My 2 cents.
Oh and have a great day.
I can't believe how critical some of these posters have been. Isn't it a little like beating a dead horse by now? The whole focus of this thread, for me, was simple...accountability and integrity. Brad isn't making excuses, and dodging anything. He is basicly saying "I am responsible for the project, so it all falls on me, ultimately. I messed up, but will fix it."
Do you have any idea how rare it is for someone to, not only take full responsibility for a "train wreck", but also not try and twist it into something that amounts to "damage control"
He's just being a "straight shooter" and that is so rare nowadays. Trying to be-little his effort right here by connecting it to past statements about GavCiv2 is petty and only self serving. Your just trying to look like a smart-alick. And it's not worth drawing any more attention to it.
Again, and this is all the effort I have energy for on this, I thank Stardock for standing up and taking accountability, no excuses, and no damage control. Now lets move on and get done with the drama...Brad has a game to fix!
good read. i am ready to move on. i am getting tired of seeing the same hate threads pop up in the forums, so i will be glad when they are more moderated. i am ready to get down to the nitty gritty and get things done.
As a 30+ years old Master of Magic fanatic i can only say B R A V O!
Elemental War of Magic is the best thing that came out in a looooong while. Sure, it has issues, but they will be solved and with your support guys it really isnt an issue. You have made a perfect blend of RPG and TBS that is just beyond any expectations.
Anyway, wish you all best at fixing the game, got the current 1.07 working but it has a number of small issues still, though no serious ones.
Keep up the good work and congratulations on a marvelous game!
Cheers!
Maybe I am wrong, but I am under impression that this part is targeted toward me. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The idea wasn't to be negative against Frogboy. Just to trying to help him in his task to improve the quality of Stardock's games by reminding him some interesting things he wrote (and he wrote a lots of things) in previous post-mortems.
And Stardock has a nice and helpful community along with its open beta programs. It is just heatbreaking to have Frogboy acknowledging that some problems experienced on the retail version (of demigod or elemental) were already detected by the open beta groups. It shows that Stardock has some untapped power with its open beta programs.
I have never posted before. I think I will now.
Expectations were high. But they always are. Christmas morning is once a year.
The game is good, if a little bland RIGHT NOW. I'm sure it will change. More NPC's, you can only marry Relias so many times, and random quests a la (sorry) Civ 4 (Forges, Islands, Libraries, Coliseums, ets...) add spice. Random maps help.
Factions are fun. Some things don't work. They will. But this should be a priority. Minor factions should be able to be overtaken with dynastic children.
Random monsters are crazy. 8 HP or 104 CCR. C'mon.
I think this game has incredible potential. I enjoy playing it. Mid game gets repetitive. With a fire book (and why only one) why can't I summon a big baddie in tactical?
This is not my first Stardock game. It will not be my last. But make it bigger, badder, and complete. Take your time if you need it.
And Frogboy, dedication like yours is not common- keep it up.
REV
If they were serious about customer satisfaction they'd offer full refunds.
What other company or business can take your money, and then merely write a statement saying 'Yeah we'll deliver the goods sometime in the future, not sure when, no guarantees, just bare with us!"?
Remember also they clearly state that the game will have FREE updates for a year... My question is when does that year start, because if its from release date its a sham.
I'm disillusioned with SD, I also just want my money back!
Although the point still has merit, Civ V actually has a new, completely in house developed engine. Gamebryo was used in Civ 4, but in interviews they stated that they wanted many features that they didn't feel were possible without doing it themselves. It will be interesting to see what Firaxis's growing pains will be like.
There are certainly costs to a new engine, but also benefits. Stardock will still reap rewards in the long run for the new engine, since it can power many new games. There's no doubt that you never want to do your bug fixing on a new engine on release, but actually using someone else's engine is no sure-fire solution either:
Gamebryo caused many issues for civ 4 which they dealt with throughout the life of the product and no doubt was a major factor that led to going in-house on 5. Also, there were the very public Epic Games lawsuits over the Unreal Engine, so it can actually work both ways.
In the end, every company is in the same boat dealing with compatibility issues, and it comes down to testing and preparedness for launch. While a new engine provides unique problems, I don't think anyone has or will find a "magic bullet" with games as complex and unique as they are.
Your living in your own bizarro world if you think it is common place for a game to be reviewed a year after release.
No one is forced under any circumstance to preorder/prepurchase/buy a game. No one is forced to buy a game on release. No one is forbidden from waiting for the game to be relased, reading some reviews and then decide if their hard earned money should be spent in the game or not. If you consider important to make informed decisions when purchasing food, a house or a new car, the same goes for videogames.
And unlike food or a house (or even a damn car) which can be considered a must have to live (at least food!!!), videogames are not. They are optional. They are not needed to live. There is people who has never seen or will see a videogame, even less play one. Unlike food, you can wait to see if a game is worthy of that hard earned money you like to complain so much about if the product you bought is faulty. Compulsive buying is bad for your wallet.
Also for videogames, excuses like "loyal fan" and similars are bad excuses. If I choose to trust one company to deliver X by reason Y, that doesn't suddently free me from my own responsability of informing myself before I purchase. If I ignore my responsability and then I get burned, it's primarily my fault because as a person that has to work to earn money, my first and only true loyalty has to be for myself. Then yes, as paying customer I have the right to complain about a faulty product but never forgetting that I'd not be in such situation if I had taken the responsible route in the first place.
I personally never ask for refunds in videogames no matter what. If I get burned by a game because I bought it withouth informing myself about it and/or because I decided to skip my responsability and trust X about Y, then I didn't deserve that money anyway*. That company X gets more of my money or not is another story...
And as someone who has bought a couple of copies of the game (plus shipping for both), which includes Multiplayer (even if I were to decide not to play it ever), I suppose that I should have even more right that most of you to complain and be "loud". I don't think that Stardock is perfect (being composes of human beings with humans lives, what can we expect after all?) but for my standard with which I interact with the world, they are still trustworthy for me (and therefore, worthy of showing them some respect). If that trust means that sometimes I can get burned, it will be because I chose to take that risk. Right now I'm feeling like risking myself with Stardock**. I cannot say the same of EA or Activision.
Ok, moving on. But I cannot promise I won't harass trolls so if I stop posting it may be because I lost my posting privileges.
PD feel free to agree, disagree or whatever. At the end of the day it changes nothing for any of us.
* no, I'm not rich. And if I had trouble reaching the end of the month, I wouldn't be buying new games (unless really cheap and with tons of replayability) and would stick to older games I already have like Warcraft 2, The Settlers 2 or something like that.
** but as still have a functional brain, if "apocalypse releases" become the norm, I would hae to change my stance... even if in this one I'm mostly unaffected
Brad: I don't think you deserve venom but I think Elemental does. If I'd actually thought the game was going to be almost as disappointing as the beta I would've spoken up. (As I've mentioned I do like the game, aside from the lacking content.)
As for Stardock, the day you all quit talking to your customers is the day I can't be bothered to buy your games. I appreciate devs who don't ignore their customers. Most of them do...or only make a passing glance at responding to them. I wish that didn't mean you got to deal with humans whose sole purpose on Earth is to make everyone else miserable.
I've been cutting down on the games I've been buying as there's a major content overload out there...you can't keep up with it without being completely obsessed. But Stardock definately holds a place in my heart even though your games aren't among my favorites.
I'm glad you're still here talkin' to us unwashed masses. *yawn*zzzzzlata
And you punish those who naively signed up to the BETA. By showing our early support you penalise us later 'No REFUNDS ON PRE-ORDERS'!
Nice...
Why not show some real customer care and allow us Preorders to get 75% refunds?
Frogboy you spoke aboutr the engine. Maybe this is the wrong thread for that but - as soon the few bugs are ironed out - But what are stardocksplans for it? Will you license it? Make it open souceafter X years?
Anyway thanks for this update and good luck for the 1.1 - 1.3 versions. I exspect the game to become awesome ^^.
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