Well, hearing about Stardock being in difficult waters, I feel I wanted to say that. You have my support. I bought the game, and even tho I feel atm it isn't really playable and needs much extension and rework for some months to come, I won't sent in refunds and won't write bad reviews. It's a decision of loyality.
Why?
Stardock has brought us good games in the past, and I don't want them to perish. I know they can make good games yet, and they have been honest and open about the situation. Which is more than we can say about most big studios. I want those small, creative studios like Stardock to survive.
I wish you folks at Stardocks the best. I will let Elemental rest and come back playing it in some months, so I hope you all keep working on it. The idea of Elemental was great, it just need some more work. And I am willing to wait, even tho I would not be so "generous" with bigger studios. Call it an investment in the future. And that's what I ask of you, my fellow gamers. Be patient, give them a chance. Do you really want everything being owned by EA in the end? I think not.
Keep up the faith and work, Stardock. Yes you can!
I don't think people are protecting them - anyone can come here and read and realize what is happening. Hell, the CEO is admitting it.
I have had 5 friends (all of who make far less than me) ask me if they should buy it. I've told them to wait until either 1) a boxed expansion combined with game (some don't like digital download) or to wait for a later digital download.
I ache to tell them that b/c I know SD needs the revenue - but they don't have the liquid cash to just give it. Two of them bought it any way to support SD on their own decision. The other 3 are waiting.
I agree with the buying more than you need. Heck I've given $ to companies I love via paypal if I trust them for no product. People have forgotten what community is about in the world - we've become corrupted by a consumer/capitalist philosophy that often lacks mercy and grace.
Not to say that most real business operates on mercy/grace - I'm not that naive. But it doesn't hurt to have people try and put this failure in a context - a context that I think speaks highly of SD overall.
My 2 cents.
J
Me too! Shoot I want to give it more money but sadly its credit card processing system wont let me purchase anything via Impulse anymore. This issue has existed since the beginning of the year when they changed to the new system. It really frustrates me to say the least.
Yes the game has bugs but its fun as hell to me.
I dont care about the negative press or people hating the game, I personally am having the tiem of my life.
Yes it sucks it was released early with alot of bugs, but right now 1.07 patch is very very playable and im enjoying it.
Sucks Brad and the crew are having hard times though, wish them all the best. I can see the potential in this game.
I support giving refunds if we are disatisfied.
Can we get a refund on this game?
Sorry, I just don't get this. You are really having the 'time of your life' with it? Why?
I know it isn't the multiplayer.
Is it the meager 2 hour campaign? The sandbox mode where you easily trounce the pathetic AI and do the same 15 quests over and over? Is is the weird/bland particle effects or the lackluster and redundant spells? Is it managing colonies whereby you basically look at the info page and build whatever improvement gives a % to whatever it happens to be producing? The tactical battles where the enemy does the same predictable things over and over with no regard for terrain bonuses an in similar drab environments? Is it watching two stacks 'miss' over and over?
Maybe it's just me, but this game needs a lot more than just bug squashing. A LOT more.
And again and again....
You can only get a 75% refund.
Which is questionable, to say the least.
On one level, at least they don't say 'f off, caveat emptor', but the reality is this game was not what they sold (ie a fully-working release-ready product) and in the US at least it does not seem right to refuse a full refund for what is essentially a failed product.
Had they stated "this $50 is part purchase, part donation to an indie company that promises to keep working on this project in progress" that might have been a different matter. They did not. They sold this as a full-on release ready game. The CEO picked fights with people who suggested it wasn't, until opinion became so overwhelming he backtracked.
None of this is personal. I love that people try new things. Their effort to be a bit more transparent is laudable. This game is filled with potential character.
But they did not provide what they said they would for the price. Full refunds are very much in order.
Full refunds are absolutely not in order. People are lucky they even get 75%. Stardock owes you nothing. You take a risk when you buy a game, Stardock isn't the only company that has ever released an unfinished mediocre game, and they won't be the last.
To think you deserve any refund is laughable and way out of touch with reality.
Admittedly, Elemental has had some problems. But I have faith that Stardock will make the game right and as quickly as possible. I never doubted that for a minute.
I support them as well. I support them unconditionally, and I hope that they recover from this debacle.
I believe the strongest way to do this is by providing vicious, unrestrained, and honest feedback. These are big boys. They don't need a harem of fans petting them and cooing. Its frankly insulting that people assume that Stardock employees are these delicate little flowers that need to be nurtured carefully in order to thrive. Don't coddle, its patronizing.
Full refunds are absolutely not in order. People are lucky they even get 75%. Stardock owes you nothing. You take a risk when you buy a game, Stardock isn't the only company that has ever released an unfinished mediocre game, and they won't be the last.To think you deserve any refund is laughable and way out of touch with reality.
Hey, did you ever read this? Gamer's Bill of Rights.
Let us think of this in a different light. I am a consumer. I want to eat. I search for a good restraunt. I read the reviews and lots of people give it 5 stars. I go to the restraunt and its a $50 per person meal and I explained its comes with a drink and a large Entree specially cooked by the chef. it is a special lobster dish for $49.99 that comes with a drink. I decide to take it. However, I have to pay for it up front. Okay. I Do it. I get the drink, which is some nice drink. I am hungry and I spent all my money on this one dinner, then I am told my Entree will be back ready a month. Wait... what?! Some drink does not fill me up. After a few minutes, the waiter gives me a dish that has some rushed together food that is put together that probably cost $5. Is this acceptable? I am hungry and I want the rest of the meal I was promised. I am assured that I will get the lobster... hopefully in a few weeks to month.
Would you accept this as a deal for your restraunt or meal?
If you are willing to accept it. Let me know where you live and I will invite you to this $49.99 meal, but your paying. I hear the chefs great - the fanboys love the cooking afterall.
Why do I keep using these strange examples to explain about a game? If you do not like lobster then change it to another food or product. Are we not consumers? Why do we let ourselves get ripped off for a game company when other products few ... or none of us... wil let ourselves get ripped off?
I need to fly to Las Vegas and I go to a specific airline carrier that people rave about. I find out that a two way ticket is $49.99 and I purchase it. I go to the airport the day and time I am supposed to go to... and I am told that all the airplanes from this specific airline carrier has been grounded. They are patching and upgrading their aircraft. They can not take me to Las Vegas and they do not offer me another aircraft or way to get there. I am told they will be ready to fly in about a week or a month. What do I do? My hotel tickets, which are non refundedable will not be given back... while it was not part of the package, I am loosing out there. Likewise, my work will be busy in a week to month from now and they will not let me go then. I can go now. Worse yet, they took my money and wont offer me a refund. Is this airlines right to do so? After a few minutes I am given a golf cart and told that I can use that to get to Vegas. I live in Texas. hmmmf. Does that make me feel better?Is Stardock right to do so?
The game says "multiplayer" on the box. Multiplayer does not function, has not functioned since release, and will not be functioning until... some time later.
In most of the world they call that either a defective product, or false advertising. Refunds are very much applicable when the stuff promised on the box doesn't exist.
I tend to see it another way. You pay $50 for a meal. You figure, it's $50, so it must be a really nice restaurant. You go, you eat, but you don't like it. Maybe even 75% of the customers don't like it. Do you pay the tab? I say yes, you do. You may not go back, but you pay the tab. Doesn't mean the restaurant might give you a partial refund, but not out of moral obligation--it's because they realize if 75% of the people don't like the food and they charge $50 a pop, pretty soon they won't have any customers.
Problem is you have a menu and it tells you what is in the meal - and the meal is missing stuff. Or in this case a box and a website. Like multiplayer. So, you are saying we should stop going to Stardock then? my point is... we dont let other products push around... but oh games... its okay to make unfinished poo for $49.99 ?
If the restaurant in question has a giant poster in front that says: "Customers have the right to return a meal they didn't enjoy, then yes, I would expect to be able to return a meal. Why the hell are people even talking about a hypothetical restaurant?
It is the ... we dont let other productrs and places push us around, but its okay for a game company to rob us blind and push us around deal. Do you think I would not be asking for a manager if I went to buy a lobster and paid for it and I was told I can have my drink now but come back in MAYBE a week to a month and it MIGHT be ready... that I would not be asking for a manager? How about the airlines. Would you let the airlines take your money but tell you ... that they might let you fly there in a week to a month from the date you wanted to go and you already planned a vacation or buisness trip?Other products and places dont push us around... but we let game companies do?
People have forgotten what community is about in the world - we've become corrupted by a consumer/capitalist philosophy that often lacks mercy and grace.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. We have absolutely become corrupted by consumer or capitalist philosophy. Look at all the people who are so unforgiving to the final product. Also, look at how unforgiving the entire gaming industry has become. It's this "consumer' philosophy that will, inevitably, destroy the industry all together. Companies take HUGE RISKS just making something new and innovative when it'd be smarter, from a business prospective, to just do remakes and expansion of the same old games that sell good.
Stardock has a reputation as being a company who WILL make up for their mistakes and amend. They have been in dialogue with us since day one and Brad himself is a very hands on person, maybe to a fault. However, you don't get that kind of customer service or treatment from Electronic Arts or any of the other major developers. Stardock is an endangered species and we need to respect them for being who they are and doing what they do.
Have consumer confidence, have faith, and give Stardock the time to lick their wounds and make Elemental right.
That's ridiculous.
I'll tell you what has become corrupted in the world. It is who the victims are, and who the perpetrators are.
Stardock are NOT the victims in this. Blaming the customer for this debacle, or suggesting that they're doing something wrong by wanting a refund, is a disgraceful thing to do.
They wrote the Gamer's Bill of Rights! If we're not willing to hold them to it, and they're not willing to abide by it, then what was the point of it?
It's this "consumer' philosophy that will, inevitably, destroy the industry all together. Companies take HUGE RISKS just making something new and innovative when it'd be smarter, from a business prospective, to just do remakes and expansion of the same old games that sell good.Stardock has a reputation as being a company who WILL make up for their mistakes and amend. They have been in dialogue with us since day one and Brad himself is a very hands on person, maybe to a fault. However, you don't get that kind of customer service or treatment from Electronic Arts or any of the other major developers. Stardock is an endangered species and we need to respect them for being who they are and doing what they do.Have consumer confidence, have faith, and give Stardock the time to lick their wounds and make Elemental right.
There is nothing wrong with risks. However, a product should have some level of quality to it. Is version 1.0 quality for you? That is what I paid for, no? Everything beyound that is gravy. We paid for the game and it was version 1.0 that came out. Most of us accepted a weeks worth of ADDITIONAL waits. I purchased another game, Dragon Age Origins to hold me over for that week. A week and a few days have gone by and is this what we paid for? The quality of the product we expect? I guess I am more angry that this is Stardock that is doing it. if this was some no name indie... that made some game that I took a risk on... I would not even think about posting about it. However, this is not some no name indie that has no experience.
This thread had a great start : showing solidarity & support for Stardock.
But now, it is being derailed & hijacked by spoiled-brat consumer-kings and their unfair "restraunt" analogies.
Boyd, I don't think you understood my post. I was saying that yes, you should expect to be able to return a Stardock game with no hassle because they have posted a "Gamer's Bill of Rights" that contains guidelines they expect all moral game development studios to follow, and one of these rights they define is the ability for consumers to return unsatisfactory products.
I just think this whole descent into culinary hypotheticals is bizarre.
Re: Cryptomancer
You do realize that Stardock is the originator of the idea that you should be able to return a gaming product you find unsatisfactory, yes?
whoops... i guess my troll in me did not see that... or the anger contained with me. I have tried to be as fair as possible with this. I guess I am more angry than anything else... this is Stardock afterall.
We can change it to airlines or another service or product of your choice. I just selected one that most of us should know about. Name another product and service and we can come up with examples of that one - I hope. But please, no teletubbies... I dont even know if they are still around... I still say they are the devils work.
Also Re: solidarity with Stardock
I stated this earlier, but I feel that it is important enough to repeat:
They don't need "solidarity." They need solid feedback.
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