(SEE REPLY #40 for more detailed suggestions and ideas)
First thing,
I know Elemental is not MOM... Moving on...
Currently when you design your Sovereing, i wouldn't see why you wouldn't want to pick all the spellsbooks?
I would of liked for Elemental to perhaps have a tiered system for spellbooks (a la mom). Or something that depending on how many points you invest in Earth or Fire magic (at character creation) you would have access to more or less spells, and maybe research them faster.
At this point, I feel my Sovereign is the Jack of all "Magics". I'd like to see the game impose some kind of restrictions to "multiclass" sovereign.
Or are all powerful tank mages in again?
Because of how MOM presented spellbooks and talent picks (both with the potential of being extremely effect (spellbooks as much as talents) it offered so much customization as to strategy and overall approach to end game. I find it's too easy to design a all around sovereign that can learn all the magic that exists. Should there be any type of limitations to this?
Someone had suggested that maybe, you get the basic spell book. And that later spell levels require X amount of shards of the appropriate Element?
And this point, there is not point in NOT picking all spellbook, as well as there being no "consequences" in doing so.
Also, unlike MOM, there aren't enough 'good' talents taht would lead you to believe that you could do more fighter oriented Sovereign. Almost feels like, they shouldn't even allow you to pick the spellbooks or not. Just have them all by default.
Anyone thinking along these lines?
Feedback plz.
Thanks,
V
I agree. Part of the larger problem of "no tradeoff's" for any decision in the game (spells, buildings, cities, etc.). I think it will get improved one way or another.
My question is why WOULD you pick more than one spellbook? Since a lot of the spells are just the same spell with a different effect slapped on there doesn't seem to be much point picking up the other spellbooks when those points could be used elsewhere. The only real reason to get multiple spellbooks is to cover you in case no shards of your selected element are near to your starting location... only shards don't work at the moment anyway.
My question is why would you pick any spellbook or research magic at all when it's all going to be worthless by turn 100 anyway?
MOAR ELIMENTAL ZUMMONS (since you can have 1 of each type for each caster you have )
With Stats caping at 15 in CC, I don't see on what you'll spend your points. A lot of the current talents don't scale, so it's a little trivial. I mean, it's good to get +1 Tech per turn in the very beginning. After that it's a drop of water in the ocean.
And I do agree that the different categories lack total unique aspect to them. Maybe the "buffs" are a little different, but the attack spells and overland spells are pretty much the same.
Land spells ->
*Fire, make deserts,
*Earth make mountains,
*Water freezes the land
* Air.. uh... oups is Air desert? I can't remember anymore
Anyways, the point being that I just feel all spells are almost identical when comparing across the other elements. I would dare to say that even just pumpin in more spells wouldn't completely solve the problem.
One thing that totally blew my mind, there isn't even the ability to have a talent, skilll for both Sovereign or Faction to specialize in a type of shard. I mean Shard Mastery... sounds right. No?\
And do shard simply contribute to "dmg", or does it offer extra resistance to that element?
True, Magical power needs to be balanced as well. Because there are so few spells, and that scaling seemed to have been put on the shards shoulder, you get your spell way to quickly. And again, the uber stacks completely blow magic out of the water... so yeah. Meh.
Oh well!
I was under the impression that elemental resistance and damage are nonexistant, you just have damage, defense and "true damage" (bypasses defense)
Oh, and btw this sucks!
(Correct me if I'm wrong I would be glad to stand corrected)
MoM was very far from a perfect game, but one of the better ideas in it was that you could take multiple instances of a school of magic in order to allow you to cast more powerful spells from that school. I'm not saying that Elemental ought to do the exact same thing, but the basic idea of concentrating on a school is sound (you just have to better balance those schools than they are now).
If you research the magic tree then you do not need to select Enhancement book for your Sov, you'll get that in game just before you get combat, restoration and another book that slips my mind at present.
As for the others it's a playstyle choice... Part RPG and Part strategic (Shard harvesting) at least thats how I'm looking at it.
One really good reason to get all the books now is the Summons, since those are so powerful early to midish game it can be nice to have that huge summoned army to run around with and save the troops for your cities. Other then that though, yeah it's all pretty much samey.
There needs to be some kind of choice to the magic and it really needs to be quite a bit different in every book. My ultimate idea would be you pick one book at the start Fire/Water/Earth/Air then augment with a few other books to get optionally. If the books were different this would create a choice on Sov creation and help to make every game not play out the same especially magic wise. Even with shrines it makes things interesting, if I'm playing Altar and I chose Fire. and Capitar is right next to me and has a fire shrine and I don't well then i'll probably want to take the city that has the shrine to get that bonus even if he's my friend. Doubt it will happen though they don't seem to be big on the player having to make choices in this game for some reason.
I agree that basic spellbooks should be given to custom sovereigns. True magic power should come from controlling shards and research.
To make character creation more interesting they could expand the background and profession sections. Force the player to make more choices that shape their character. Forcing negative traits is also interesting since no one is perfect. We are all human.
I would also like to see points alloted to equipment that can't be spent elsewhere.
Absolutely. The way the game currently is there is no difference between your choices for sovereign. In the early betas there was some differentiation and when they changed it so that all magic books were accessible to all sovereigns I assumed that it was for testing purposes.
I never pick more than earth, enchantment, and maybe one other elemental school I feel like at the time. With the exception of earth, all the elemental schools are fairly interchangeable. How many different ways do you need to do damage? Earth is good because it has the raise /lower land, and the best summons. Cold is good because it has control, and also has good summons. But the summons for all the spell schools are overpowered, and they all do the same damage, so taking more than one is a complete waste of points that could be better put into passive benefits like stats and abilities.
That's why you wouldn't take more than a couple schools, unless you fancy wasting character points.
i only pick air
i get chain lighting for aoe and lighting bolt or what ever its called for single target
If you're using a mod that makes shards work (there are a couple now), you could definitely make an argument for taking all the spellbooks... except Enhancement which you'll get through pretty basic magic research.
Mind you, at least one of said mods (Abilities, Traits, and History's Modification) greatly increases the number of useful sovereign traits so you might just find yourself low on build points for what it's worth.
* Concerning Summons, if you pick more than 1 spellbook you can get 1 OP summon per spellbook.
* Concerning extra character points, given the fact that you cap at 15 during character creation, combined with most talents that do not scale. It's a bit pointless to "save points" for an ability that will defintely not outweight being able to summon some uber OP'd creature.\
I find that talents costs need to be revised, some need to be added, and some maybe really strong ones that scale through the game. I think all sovereign talents should be + X % rather than +1 XYZ. For example, the knowledge skill. Gives you +1 Tech without any buildings. Sure it's "good at the begining" but, how quickly is that talent overshadowed by 25 Gildar priced buildings... Also, from what I gather, your Sov's Tech isn't compiled into any of the buildings you get later on. so it never scales.
I find character creation rather bland at the moment. I mean don't me wrong, the visual customization, is pretty damn epic. But other than that, the skills and talents leave a bread-like taste in my mouth. Isn't bad, but could definitely benefit from some "toppings".
Cheers,
Lots of wisdom
Seconded! (sorry I edited but I hate wasting space!)
If they simply put generic magic, and specific magical resistances in the game, that would go a LONG way to making spells strategic and different right there (got'a freeze that fire elemental; got'a fry that troll; got'a melee those wolves). Heck, all they'd have to do is give a ranged resistance too (makeing the normal def vs most melee) and you could make calvary with anti-ranged to tear up those archers (no need to even lower archers curent damage if they did that).
No to mention, fire could lower morale (holly #$&* I"m on fire!), ice could lower speed/movment, Earth already does lots of blocking and slowing, it could even do knockback. Air could be as a ranged counter. So much they could do (and that has ALREADY been done in simular games for a decade+).
This suggestion might help too: https://forums.elementalgame.com/394871
because all the spells are the same, inferno and blizzard are the same spell just reskinned, there no damage resistances to specific spells. so you might as well just choose like earth and fire to get the cool summoned creatures and put the other points else where.
You could ditch a couple of spellbooks and start with a spear instead. Totally worthwhile. P
I just wanted to make sure I understood a couple of things people said:
It had looked to me like all the books were about equivalent, so I took a sovereign with only Earth (for Lower Land, which I found really useful sometimes) and put the rest of the points into Organized and raising Int/Wis. Sounds like she'll be a lot wimpier than I thought -- unless you can somehow pick up the elemental books in-game. You can get the Enchantment book only a couple of steps up the Magic tree, which doesn't take long if you do it first, so it may still be appropriate to leave that one out.
shards are not working you can have 10 shards but it wont increase the spell dmg
yes each spell book has a unique summon so if you have all 4 books you can summon 4 creatures
You mean have something like Rock-Paper-scissors concept? Like most Strategy games should (to an extent).
But you are totally right with the "no difference" of dmg between magic and melee dmg. It kind of boils everything down to the same. Although I'd be completely down with having Normal & Magical Dmg. To make things extremely interesting (and complicated for some) would be to have magic dmg per spellbook type. So, Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Death &... (uh what's the name for the Kingdom spellbook) would each be a different type of dmg that would have it's own resistance.
But yeah, that would be a little crazy. I'll settle for the magic DMG vs regular DMG. So you would have armor and "magical resistance" as stats.
Thing is, I would be curious to see if we are already to late for this type of implementation.
What!?
Are you kidding me? If you don't pick the enchantment spellbook, you can research it... >.>
*Warning MOM Reference*
In MOM, you COULD... SOMETIMES... find another spellbook. But it was usually defended by a LOT of mobs and powerful ones. Also, you'd get a book at random, you couldn't pick which one you wanted.
Since, in elemental, a "SINGLE" book, gives you access to almost ALL the spells of it's class. Things like this shouldn't be possible.
Man, what a mess...
You don't pick all the spellbooks because it is a waste of points since magic is so underdeveloped. You only need one school and enchantment for the early city bonus enchantments. Earth is a good choice too for stone skin. Three at most. One for combat, enchantment for bonii, and earth for buffs.
Why would you even want 4 basic attack spells that do the same damage?
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