Sorry for the dissertation, but if you are bored while waiting for Elemental to get fixed and want to contemplate the silliness of the human psyche....
I must admit I don't understand all the anger/people saying Stardock should have delayed releasing Elemental until February 2011. It seems to me that EVERYONE is better off with the game released and in players' hands, rather than having Stardock work on it internally for another 6 months before release:
1.) Stardock
Obvious - better off cause they have people's money, and can get players to do their "beta testing", find bugs, etc. without having to pay them...big win.
2.) Players who like the game
"Fanboys" or not, there are apparently a lot of people (50%-ish in the poll, and some positive comments in the forums) who are enjoying playing the game, even if they realize it is not perfect. They are happy it is out now so they get 6 months more of enjoyment. Plus the ability to make suggestions, which means the game will be better by Feb 2011 than it would be if it was just in Stardock's hands internally...let's face it, the official beta-testing process was not, and would not have been, as intense as what is happening now that the game is released - i.e. whenever the game got released players would have a lot of complaints/suggestions, and this way they are taken care of now, rather than 6 months from now. So you get to have whatever fun you can have with the game now, PLUS have the game in better shape by next February than it would otherwise be...PLUS have Stardock feeling bad and more likely to give additional free content that they were planning on charging for going forward = big win for this group, as well.
3.) Players who hate/are frustrated by the game in current form
Okay, you hate the game. Don't play it until next February, and you are in the same place you'd be if they didn't release it until then. Only you are even BETTER off, becasue of the reasons outlined above....you at least have the chance to make suggestions, and/or have other people climbing all over the game and improving it, so it will be better this way by February 2011 than it would have been if they didn't release it until then. Plus more Stardock effort/free stuff, as above. Okay, you had to put up your $50 now. But since you were going to spend $50 next February, you didn't LOSE $50, you just lost the use of that $50 for 6 months. Left in the bank, at the current .1% interest, that "costs" you $.025 in interest (pre-tax!). That sucks, but only a little. I would think if you were going to plop down $50 in 6 months anyways, plopping down, in effect, $50.025 now to get a more-robust, fully tested and vetted game in 6 months that you can mess around with now if you feel like it (and ignore if you don't), PLUS get Stardock's extra effort to make up the problem stuff, seems like a pretty good deal. So ignore the game, come back in February, and have a better game due to the "early" release than you would have had otherwise. If losing out on the $.025 interest on your money for 6 months really annoys you, get a refund and rebuy later - annoying, but not catastrophic, especially relative to the "free look" at maybe enjoying the game now and definelty enjoying the game more once it's been refined by the rest of the public. Either way, the "pre-mature" release seems like a small win even for this group.
I understand if a company releases a game that's not ready, takes your money, and walks away...that REALLY sucks, and no one wants to support the trend of companies doing that. But no one, even those who hate the game in it's current form, appears to think Stardock is going to do that.
Feeling like you are going to get something great, and then having to wait, is annoying...but you'd have to wait if they delayed the release, too. And buying something you thought you'd like, and having to go through the hassle of getting a refund cause you need the money to buy something else to amuse yourself, is also annoying. But it also seems that the annoyance is small compared to the CHANCE to get a look at something early...you might like it..you might not like it but like the chance to help reshape it...you probably will like it more in 6 months than you would have if the release was delayed...it just seems to me that if you really THINK about it, we should ALL be glad Stardock released this game now rather than working on it internally until Febrauary of next year... Stardock wins; people who are enjoying the game now win, and even people who dislike the game in it's current format kinda win. So why the hate?!?!
...if you truly believe that they will continue to improve the game as much as they would have if they kept it internal for 6 more months, the "early" release is a GREAT thing for EVERYONE (like how the capital letters make my points so much stronger.."look, it's in capitals..must be right!"). And it gets even better if you STOP writing how much you hate the game in the forums, and let other people help improve it for you without the distraction!!
Stardock - KEEP releasing games early, AS LONG AS YOU WORK HARD TO SUPPORT THEM AFTER RELEASE, we all win that way!!!!!!
I don't consider myself a critic, so much that I am intrigued by what's going on in the business so I can learn second-hand. Galciv II really did not go down much differently than this, and it was wildly successful. Stardock has had some great successes, failures, and a few verdicts yet to be reached, and I want to learn from someone else's bumps and bruises rather than take the knocks myself.
I agree 100%. We need a roadmap on what SD thinks is wrong and more importantly what they intend to do... They dont have to be locked into everything but the general details..
Why? Cos I have lost faith that SD even has a clue here. We need to know in detail so we can know SD really *gets* it. Look at the forum, everyone agrees on what is not fun, though there are different proposals to fix it. I don't pretend to know which proposal is better, but it does give me a sense the authors *get it*. To tell you the truth, pretty much any of these proposals would be 10x more fun than what currently exists. I would like SD to have a proposal on that level, they may not actually follow it, but that alone is enough to tell me they get it.
Right now are we sure Brad even *gets* it ?? He say he does but he gives no real examples except that someone told him magic spells are not interesting, and he thought it was the name of spells that was referred to? Is he kidding?? That's his epiphany??
What about the post where people posted many many interesting spells cos he asked for it?
I would be moding 'The Emperors new cloaths'
I think Stardock is a great company, but one that is better appreciated retrospectively...or retroactively...not sure which word. It seems that their games are released in not such a great state, but develop into greatness further down the line. I bought Elemental and wasn't impressed or could find anything that drew me back so I got a refund and bought Gal Civ 2 Ultimate with all its exp. packs in the Impulse sale and I think it's superb!
I'm guessing I will end up doing the same with Elemental. The beta will be played to death and fixed and patched and modded and expanded and then in a few years a cheap Ultimate Elemental will be released and it will have become a must-have.
Whether it came out early or not is irrelevant because the "greatness" comes from all the testers, so really it's a case of the earlier the better because then the greatness will come earlier too!
I have just read this thread with interest and there are a lot of valid comments from both sides which have convinced me that I should register and add my voice.
I am from UK and an SD fan who has been blown away by GalCiv2 and Sins, so I was excited to hear of Elements as I thought it would take the depth and detail of the above titles into a game world that I enjoy more than space, that of the fantasy genre. What a great idea. I have read up on the development, the ideas behind it and came very close to pre-order when I saw the summer previews.
I'm glad I didn't as I feel I would have been disappointed beyond expectation. In fact I felt upset as soon as the reviews started coming in just because I rate SD up there with the best of gaming standards. I have complete faith in you guys getting there and delivering Elements as the game you and all of us know it can be and when you do I shall definitely buy it, no question. In the meantime I shall spend my limited resources on Civ V and keep my eye on the boards.
Hats off to all the posters here who have discussed this issue, I can see some of them are hurting, but none more so than Frogboy. Thanks for the honesty and appraisal and for the guarantee that the problems at launched will be fixed. I would ask you though, how will you get the word out there and let people know when it is? I only ask because there are many games over the years that have shipped in sub-standard state and despite huge leaps in patching can never get around their poor reviews. In some cases, the companies struggle with tarnished reputation long after the game is fixed and great. The way round this of course is to reboot and release a stand-alone Elements game come February with all the changes done and draw a line under War Of Magic. If it is worth a 90%+ score, don't settle for 60% reviews.
>implying that with the patch the release version was worth the money
>implying that the patch improved the game to the extent that it was worth crying over if you pirated it
As someone who regularly 'tries before he buys' I wish I hadn't preordered Elemental, since if I pirated it I'd have had notice that the game wasn't finished and to not waste my time with it. Every time I almost preordered a game I was 100% disappointed with the result - Empire: TW, Spore and Black and White 2 being the worst culprits in memory.
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