It is not my intention to get people riled up, but I fear folks might, but hear me out, I'm stating this for the benefit of all of this company's fans and supporters as well as the company it self. I also realize some of this will come off like bitching, but honestly, I did pay for at least that privilege.
I have tried and tried to play and enjoy this game and I haven't been able to because of how broken of a game it is, there are dozens upon dozens of in your face, obvious game-breaking issues with this game, it's evident all over the forums and in each and every session of the game I've played. The game release has been an utter failure, the subsequent patches have done some but not nearly enough to fix the game into a playable fashion. If I try really hard, yes, I can 'play' the game, but that's about a kin to me making up the rules or interpreting what I can out of all that is broken, it requires far more suspension of disbelief than I have to muster, I paid to not have to TRY and enjoy myself, and yet, I'm forced into a situation where it's all I can do or go play another game, or lurk on these forums, half-laughing, half-cringing at some of the similar experiences of others who forked down the same money (if not more for the LE edition). The fact that we have a thread where someone has mentioned that the forums are more fun than the game (and the mere fact that I have to actually agree with the statement) is really quite sad.
In every thread of someone complaining, there seems to be a fan, that die-hard 'Stardock is the darling of the gaming world' fan that shows up and demands that the person not just complain but offer up constructive criticism, suggest what should be fixed and then usually throw in, 'it will be patched in time, you just have to wait for them to patch it, this game will be great in X weeks/months/years, after an expansion or two, when the mod tools work, when this or that is fixed, etc.'
Normally, I would agree (to constructive criticism), it's generally not a good idea to just complain and not try to suggest a way to resolve the problem, but, now, after this much frustration with a clearly broken product that I cannot and will not recommend to anyone, it's an insult to suggest that any paying customer put up with this, not be allowed to vent and to advise or suggest that they give up suggestions, ideas on how something should work or pointing out the flaws in the game, why? Simple, we aren't Stardock employees, we don't get our paychecks from Stardock and on top of it all, we PAID Stardock money for a product and I feel as though these fans and Stardock think it is up to the community to fix THEIR problems. We're expected to pay our own money to help them do their job to fix the broken product we bought, that, is nothing but an insult.
At this point, my suggestions and frankly I suggest anyone else's suggestions and ideas and error dumps not be given so easily to Stardock, it might fly in the face of many but, at this point, my ideas and suggestions come at the cost of a consultation fee and it's not cheap because I don't enjoy it, I especially don't enjoy explaining having an issue only to be met with someone expecting an error dump, had this company some foresight, they could easily implement something that just sent the error dumps back to their offices, but no, it's this manual process we all have to go out of our way to do and for what? Forgive me if I have better things to do with my life, than help you fix your problems, I didn't pay for a game so that I could do work, least of all, your work.
I tried guys, I did, I sang your praises at the beginning, I read that review (that bit knocking Brad was wrong, the rest, was on target) originally and my mouth dropped, there's no way Elemental is that bad, I drank the kool-aid for the last 12 months, I was in denial last week. It is that bad. I hope others wake up as well, the market dictates what a successful product is, not pilfering your fans for free testing, bug reporting, ideas, etc. That's an insult to any paying customer. I wouldn't mind helping and suggesting if 90% of the game worked, I get it, software rarely is released without a few issues, but this is really bad, it's broken, I can't enjoy anything all I can do is laugh, at it, not with it. It's bad.
For all those supporters of the company, you guys are the true unsung heroes, you guys, sadly will probably be the ones who do end up getting this game where it needs to be. I know many people will probably still support Stardock in full (that's cool, your loyal, I respect that, hell I still like the company and it's general attitude, just feel really burned on this one), I don't expect my post to deter anyone but rather to put it in perspective, don't give your time freely for too long, your ideas, efforts and time are worth more than you realize and unless you truly enjoy submitting error dumps and reporting issues, don't feel obligated to do so, you paid for a game not to do their work and not to sit around for months discussing it, waiting for it to finally hit that 'finished' state.
Yawn. Nope not riled up. Just tired of the same thread every two minutes.
I feel your pain from your very legitimate complaints.. (well I assume they're legit, I got though the 1st of your many paragraphs), I really do.
Just bored with the complaints and people's inability to find an existing thread to add to (especially when not adding anything new). Well, having read a bit now.. i see your suggestion is this "bitch but don't give suggestions on how to make it better or send error logs".. interesting.
Being of the opinion that its every customers right to complain I would like to refrain from issuing a general comment on the basic content apart from saying that the opinion is presented in a very clear and eloquent way. Thumbs up for the form even if - somehow masochistically enjoying this participation in the game's GAMMA-testing - I might disagree on some points. But that's just normal.
On one thing however you're a 100% right:
One might call it convenience or a "best practice" standard ... or just "give me all your information", but I seriously like Blizzard's crash report system. I remember, that every time World of Warcraft broke down a program started and asked me, whether I would agree to send all the information on this crash back to Blizzard. You can / could comment it, but it basically was just one click. With Elemental its 1) search the files, 2) copy them to pastebin, dropbox or whatever and 3) create a post in the forum. It does not take much to see, that some more streamlined way of "bug-/crash-reporting" would be incredibly convenient ... especially considering the current state of the game.
So maybe there was still some (acidental *evil grin*) constuctive criticism in this post.
Thanks for sharing, MrCapitalG.
Rabenhoff
"I Did Not Pay to Help Fix or Finish Elemental"
Ask for a refund. Come back, if still interested, when you think (and/or read and/or play the demo) that it's to your liking.
Technically, no. You speak for nobody but yourself and certainly not for *my* "benefit".
Your suggestions are entirely self-destructive. A game can't be good if the issues people have with it are not reported. If there was no community involvement in a game, it would never be good.
If you don't feel like your time is not well spent offering suggestions and posting bug reports and crash logs, then that's how you feel, and nobody will try to force you to do it. But you speak only for yourself and your own benefit. You have no authority to judge what anyone else's time is worth and how it should be spent
I think the criticism is spot on. The betas we were playing were really alpha-builds and what we're playing now 1.0.x is the beta version. Stardock had two choices for release dates (August 2010 or February 2011). They chose August 2010 to get some money (although Brad has mentioned they didn't need any money) and feedback on this beta version. The real GA version will be 2.0 which comes out in February next year.
I think I would be ok with it if Stardock would just admit that. Instead, they're acting like a major league baseball player who used steroids who is denying they used steroids even though we all know they did steroids.
I did a Google search for Elemental reviews and was cracking up at the game sites that instead of giving Elemental a bad review, they are saying that Elemental is "un-review-able". Funny huh? Of course, we all already knew that.
Anyway, I hope Stardock keeps patching the performance and gameplay issues every week because for some reason I can't seem to stop playing it.
Your absolutely right, there was some constructive criticism in there. I'll be damned, thanks for noticing
Can I get a refund? I assumed I couldn't since I bought it a long time ago, I thought I read there was a 90 day refund limit or something.
Normally I wouldn't respond to this, but, in all honesty, a guy above you did find some useful criticism about automatic error reporting. I'm not judging anyone here, if they want to help, they can help, I said as much at the end of my post, and the company and community is lucky for that. I was also more or less letting Stardock know, they really shouldn't be depending on the community to do what they really ought to be doing in the first place.
Your right I don't speak for you or anyone but myself, I never intended to, I'm sorry if it came across that way.
No, actually. The original two choices for release dates were February 2010 and August 2010. It was pushed to August because the overwhelming majority of people asked for it before the beta even started.
To be fair, we don't actually know *why* August was chosen. I'm a regular around here, and I don't even know *when* August was chosen, let alone why. It's one thing if someone sat around in July and said "hey lets release next month!" It's quite another if that decision was made back in January when it looked like August was a doable schedule.
And I don't know what you want out of them, honestly. BoogieBac has been nothing but straightforward about the issues and what they're doing about them on this forum. If you set aside Brad's infamous quote, the response from the rest of SD has been exemplary. Since they can't turn back time, what more can you expect them to do?
You can contact sales@stardock.com for a refund. I'm not exactly sure what their full criteria is, but you should at least be able to get a 75% refund. If you have technical issues and not just "I don't like it", you should be able to get 100%. Your best bet is just contact them and explain the situation.
Here's the old dev journal that asked for opinions between February 2010 and August 2010 release. I know it's all the rage now to say they released it early to make a buck, but the reality is they delayed it by half a year because *we* asked for it.
https://forums.elementalgame.com/360476
Some quotes:
Right now, the schedule is this:
This is pretty much the same schedule we’ve been doing since Galactic Civilizations I back in 2003.
But imagine this kind of beta instead:
So what would be the point of this? The point would be to make it a lot more fun to develop the game with the beta testers. Rather than have v1.0 come out in February and then have v1.1 in say April and so on, we simply keep working on the game with the beta testers.
Then, when we release the game, it’s got a ton more stuff.
We don’t have the financial pressure to release the game in February and because of that, we have an opportunity to try something we’ve not done that we think might be really special and that is vastly increase the contribution of the beta players into the game than what we’ve done before.
The end result would, I think, be a game that could very well be a classic. A year’s worth of player input before it was released to the general public.
Tell us what you think.
tl;dr but based on the title: Yes, you did pay to help fix and finish Elemental. You may not be happy about it, but today's patch is brought to us by the letter U.
So... thanks!
There are a few companies I will give monetary support to. Stardock is one of 3 I can name where I am not worried at all at the shape the game is in now. It will be fixed and majorly improved. You should see Galciv from where it started to where it is now. I actually did not understand portions of the game until the 2nd expansion explained it to me.
Actually the only reason I hate this is the backlash that is coming in the reviews and hence the players who won;t ever try it.
I really appreciate what you are saying here. This is some of the best consumer advice I've heard on these boards. You know, its one thing to ask for beta testers, who test a free version. Its quite another to sell a beta version, and have us continually provide feedback. I think this is why a couple of reviewers suggest staying away until its fixed and polished. They don't want us to waste our money. To be honest, if Stardock wants feedback, at least have another beta on test servers, and provide the testers with a free copy. That I would like to see, and it would keep these game companies honest. There should be a definite cost to a game that needs fixing, and I agree that I should not be the one paying it.
Contact Stardock and ask for a refund. Problem solved.
Well stated, that's what I was trying to say, while being admittedly frustrated. You summed up my intent, perfectly. I'm not thrilled at having spent my money and more than that, my time, trying, in vein, to enjoy a game that simply is bereft of being enjoyed right now (speaking personally).
(I have submitted a request for refund, hopefully that works out, it's frankly more about principle than anything, the money isn't that big of a deal, I'll probably pay it down the road when the game gets to where it should be now, but, yes, you gotta keep these companies honest. Voicing my discontent and hopefully getting my money refunded is the best way to do so I figure!)
That is your prerogative as per the GBOR. We're working nonstop to resolve the issues regardless, so hopefully you'll see fit to repurchase at a later time.
Closing this thread for now lest it become trollbait.
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