Currently, the combat system suffers several problems.* magic is of little use and of little interest* combat is too fast, usually with a unit dealing a big blow* squad units are too powerfulI'll present ideas that solve all of these problems.Magic:Magical effects on the battlefield should involve a bit more than just damage. I will not try to be innovative, and here are my suggestions to give some interest to different spells.* Tactical spells that affect (but with no damage) troops on the battlefield are tremendously important. Due to the relative lack of mana, such spells should last longer than the current 3 turns. An appropriate value could be INT/3 turns.* Such spells must involve : increase in attack, defense, attack speed, movement speed (slow/accelerate), magic protection, missile protection* Other spells should be able to affect the battlefield (mud that would slow units, rocks that would make passage impossible...)* All must be cheap (because the mage only regains 1 mana a turn) ; else, mana regeneration should be increased (which I actually think should be better). Otherwise, magic will be too rarely used on the battlefield (don't forget the game title!). I'd advocate the use of shards for that purpose : each shard could reduce mana drain by 5%, and 10% when it's related to the element of the spell beeing cast (which means cumulatively applying .95 and .9 multipliers) ; alternately, a shard could work as now and also increase mana regeneration by 10%* Elements must have side effects for damaging spells : - fire should continue to burn the target, dealing damage and reducing both attack and defense - ice should slow the target, both in speed and attack speed and maybe reduce attack and defense - lightning should shock the target unit into losing it's next turn and maybe reduce defense - air should blow back the target unit by at least one square, deal little damage, and have it lose it's next turn - earth should deal the most damage* Attack spells should usually come in many flavours: - spells which attack a single figure in a unit (flame bolt for exemple) - spells which attack all figures in a unit (fireball) - spells which attack all figures in contiguous squares - spells which attack all units in a square on the strategic map (strategic spell * Magic spells would have to be reduced in effect (probably) after following the modifications suggested in the next paragraph. Certainly the effect of shards should. A shard should now only add something like +2 to intelligence when casting a spell related to it.
Units:We all know that currently squads are the death of the military system. The first to field a good squad is the winner. We'll see how this can be solved.Squads should not be much more than the sum of the elements. * each unit in a squad keeps it's individuality (hp most notably) * each keeps it's attack / defense rating * when attacking, each attacks individualy (i.e. a squad of four with attack 6 doesn't solve one 24 attack, but four 6 attacks. Only one counterstrike happens) * when the squad has taken enough hits to kill a member, then the squad is reduced by one attackOK ; now you ask : why should I build squads in the first place ? I'm as good with 4 units as with a squad of 4.No... the major use of a squad is that as long as the whole squad is not dead, all members will eventually survive.This is, economically, extremely important, and makes squads worthwhile for big battles.The other effect, as important, is that you use less space on the battlefield : Where you can attack an opposing unit with but 3 or 4 single combattant, you can attack with as many squads, making the attack much deadlier.Both of these effect are quite sufficient in themselves to warrant that squad would still largely be used and in large numbers.If you feel that's now underpowered, a squad could be granted +0.5 attack per member over one (round down) and 0.5 defense per member over one (round up) ; combined with the changes that I suggest on weapons, that would still make squads fearsome.This major change in the combat system would require redesigning most monsters (which have a much too high attack rating), and spells (which might now be overpowered) ; see above.Weapons/Armor/Combat:The current effect of weapons and armor make armor mostly worthless. Only attack counts in the game as it is now. You know it : your first blow decides on the fate of the combat. Equip your troops with the deadliest two handed weapons, outfit them with the most basic armor that will withstand ranged attacks.* Weapons grow too far in power. There should not be normal weapons with attack ratings of 12 or more. In particular, using a two-hand weapon should not give much more attack than you lose on defense. Usually, missing a shield cost 2 defense : a two handed weapon should thus do about +2 damage compared to a technically equivalent one handed weapon. The idea is that attacks and defense rating should stay within well bounded limits. A A6/D6 unit is almost always going to win over a A4/D4 unit. Also, if you're lagging in tech, you still stand a chance if you field more units. Instead of ever increasing stats, maybe other paths could be explored:* Units deal simultaneous damage by default (this makes armor a lot more desirable)* Units equipped with longer weapons deal damage first (hence a short sword and a long sword could deal the same or almost same damage, with the long sword being much more desirable due to a "first strike" effect) ; an axe deal good damage but is short.* Give weapons different effects ; a plate is almost useless against a mace... So a mace could be given a not too high attack stat and still be a very desirable weapon (but you wouldn't want all your units equipped with maces). I understand that this could be diffucult to implement in the current system.* I do not have the list of weapons here, but that could then be something like (Attack/Length) - fist 1/0 - club 2/1 - dagger 3/0 - short sword 3/1 - wood spear 3/4 - long sword 4/3 - mace 5/2 - two handed sword 6/4 - two handed axe 7/3After that, there is no need for A150/D40 units which are pretty one round combat (how awful) : I attack, the unit is killed otherwise I get killed... Not fun. No tactics. Low attack values make the combat longer which is both bad (too long is boring) and good (long enough means I can actually use tactics such as retreat a losing squad if favor of a fresh one etc) ; they make also any additional effects more worthwhile (enchantments etc)Heroes:Heroes are undervalued today. Let's see why:Basically, heroes start by beeing little more than peasants (sometimes even less), and are soon distanced by trained troops for two reasons:* trained troops have more Hp (my elite squad troop has 112hp, that's 28 per individual) => grant heroes similar benefits as troops on level up. And because they are heroes, you actually want to give more: - automatic HP increase (+2 per level seems ok) - current stat benefit - increase in it's particular area (merchant would make 1 gildar/level per turn for exemple) - maybe some other, rarer benefits (once every three levels)* troops cost less to equip the exact same equipment (hence heroes are always underequiped) => make equipment the same cost for hero or normal troop.* share the experience in combat instead of granting xp on all presents ; this would prevent heroes and troops from gaining undue experience. To compensate, give per turn experience even if no combat happens.Now, because squads (and consequently other baddies) would have been brought down in attack/defense, a good combat hero with 15 strength and 15 dexterity would have a very reasonable chance to stand against a squad similarly equiped.
Yves
I like the idea of a longer weapon giving its user an opportunity to strike first.
Weapons, armor and experience should also afffect the order in which a unit moves - i.e. initiative. A lighltly armored unit should have a chance to move before a unit armored in plate. Likewise, an experienced unit should have a chance to move before a lesser experienced unit.
This would randomized the movement order for each tactical battle - Friendly Unit 1 moves, then Enemy Unit 3, then Friendly Unit 3, then Friendly Unit 5, then Enemy Unit 4, Enemy Unit 1 - and make the player to devote more thought to moving his units.
I do like the concept of squads and the current system of 4-8-12 seems a good layout. However how the game handles the squads right now, leaves some things to be desired.
The armor of squads is way off. The game adds together the armor of all the units in the squad and uses it as the squad's armor. It is as if all the unit's are minched into a ball of meat and then plated with 4/8/12 times as thick armor as they used to have. Voila, warriorball! Joke aside, when you put people in squads, they do not get better armor. Each individual's armor would be as penetratable as before. However, depending on the squad's experience and maybe civilization's level of army organization, each individual would get a bonus to their defense. This would not however be proportional to the other individual's armor however, quite the contrary one might argue. A team of light warriors with leather armor would be much more effective in working as a squad, than a bunch of immobile, heavy plated ones. I do know that this is a fantasy game, but some slight contact with real physics is still in order.
I also like the idea of some xp every turn. How else am I going to level up my farmer hero? Or for that matter, all those stationed troops defending the city?
Agree very much so far.
* when the squad has taken enough hits to kill a member, then the squad is reduced by one attack
You could also make it so that each burst of damage is split randomly between each member, though not in larger chunks than each member's hp. If for example 25 dmg is dealt out to a squad of 4, with 10 hp each, it could do 1d10 to the first, 1d10 to the second, 1d10 to the third, 1d10 to the fourth and repeat until all the damage is dealt. The idea is hat the squad would be able to rotate it's members to a certain degree, rather than one and one guy dying. I realize this is a boost, but it seems about right in my book, without beeing overly complicated.
Because a guy is magically linked to the other squad members, he becomes immortal? Na, I'd rather have what I write above. The effects are comparable from an economical point of view as well.
You would then have a replacement system, in which the squad could recruit rookies into the squad, in towns. He would be a level 1 rookie in all aspects of the game.
Note that I agree with you on most of what you write, but then we wouldn't have anything to discuss, would we?
Honestly I wouldn't mind increasing Squad sizes a bit (my original thoughts were 20 - 50 max) ... and allowing more actual units on the battlefield.
However, to do things like this, we first need to fix the broken-ness of current squad "stack stating"
I have read some posts in this forum that suggest the attack stacking is a bug. If you have a 4 man stack with 20 attack the game rolls four 20/4 attacks against the enemy's Def/(number of figures in the enemy) squad. The problem comes when you lose 3 people from your stack... instead of reducing the 20 ATT to 5 ATT the game rolls one 20/1 ATT.
A couple of things that might make combat better :
Counter attacks should be determined before deaths. That way 8 man sword squad attacking a 4 man sword squad can't kill them in one blow without facing any counter attacks. This would make unarmored squads with high damage weapons a less viable strategy.
Damage from individual attacks shouldn't carry over to the next man in the squad. In other words 4 men with 40 attack war hammers attacking an 8 man squad would be able to blow through any armor but they could only kill 4 men at a time. This would make a slow weapon speed more of a detriment. Attacks that carry over to the next man would be a special talent for champions and large creatures.
From what I have seen/heard, It constantly rolls 20/1 ATT, and it doesn't change if X # soldiers die b/c they now "regenerate" when enough HP is restored.
I like the refinments you suggest ; different initiative, attack dmg not going to the next man and so on.At this time, all of these are interesting refinements.
But first of all, we must get the removal of the current "death squad"!
One more advantage of squad units versus individuals is that combat spells would affect all the members of the squad. Haste and such.
All the idea presented here are very good. Actually the combat hasn't really interest du to some of these majors flaws.
Elemental spells could lower stats too: Fire could lower morale for example (omg, I'm on fire).
My suggestion would be that each figure in the squad gets a bonus to their attack and defense based on the number of other figures in the squad. Whether that should be a hard number (like 0.5 suggested above) or a percentage (like 2% per other figure) depends on your game balance preference. A hard number per figure would benefit weaker units more, while a percentage would affect all units equally. But when a figure is killed, that bonus should be adjusted immediately.
It should certainly not just multiply the att/def of the unit times the formation size and execute one attack. That's crazy. That's the equivalent of a squad of 2000 fluffy chicks attacking a plutonium dragon and taking him out in one shot. I think each figure in the formation should attack the first figure in the target formation. Whether damage should spill over to the next figure if the first is killed or not is a good question. I could see no spillover causing much longer battles, particularly if someone focusing on fewer, powerful units attacked someone with hoards of peasants. That may be a valid outcome, but it may render very powerful units way overkill for most applications.
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