Greetings!
I'm pretty far from a good net connection so I'll keep this brief
Let me say that I'm glad that most people seem to like the game. This message, however, is for those who are disappointed with Elemental so far.
Stardock is not just a game studio but it is also a publisher. What does this mean? Well, historically, the way it works is a game is released and if people don't like it, they're supposed to buy some expansion pack for it that "fixes" things that people thought should be in the original version.
We don't have to do that because we're both the studio and the publisher.
That means we can release free "expansion packs" for Elemental until such a high percentage of players love the game that only then can we discuss sequels or paid expansions.
Having had the opportunity to finally get out of the office for the first time in months has let me look at the game (and ahem, play the game for crazy amounts) of time from a new perspective.
I should also say that regardless of sales or reviews, our commitment to Elemental will not be affected. As some of you know, most of our company's revenue doesn't come from developing games. Even if the game didn't sell another copy, we would still continue our update schedule.
So what will be the concrete results of this?
1. In September we will release v1.1 which will be the first major revision to the game that takes into account the feedback we're getting from players. This will be a pretty substantial change. In particular, character creation, magic (think, shared mana pools),
2. We are going to go ahead and make a more traditional tutorial. I'm not a fan of tutorials but some of my grognard friends have had trouble figuring out the mechanics which means to me that we have to do something about that.
3. We are going to move Book 2: Magesa out of a future expansion pack and into the base game in a future "mega" update, likely late Fall.
4. As mentioned on the forums back in July-ish, we plan to make a new DVD gold master available to those with limited Internet connections later this Fall.
5. As discussed (I think) last Winter, I will be taking a sabbatical this Fall specifically so I can dedicate time to AI and modding so that others, long after me, can use the Elemental engine to create other things (you will need to know Python to really go crazy with it).
6. I will NOT be ceasing my postings on other forums. The guys on Qt3 and Octopus Overlords and elsewhere are my friends. I'm no more going to stop posting there then I would stop going out with my friends to movies and other "public places" where, heaven forbid, someone datamining my comments might find a "gotcha moment". Those people are my friends both on the forums and outside the forums. Interacting with you guys is a major reason I like making games in the first place.
7. To those reviewing the game: I would urge you to review the game prior to v1.1. I say this because v1.05 (the release day version) is the version of the game that was originally released and if that version of the game is considered flawed then my view is that Stardock should suffer the consequences for that. We appreciate the kindness and patience many people have shown. I just think game studios, including Stardock, need to be conscious of what they release and not expect to "patch themselves out of trouble". I do believe Elemental is, by far, the best game we've ever made but I also agree with most of the criticisms I've read too. The state of PC entertainment has changed since 2006 (when we released GalCiv II) and it is our responsibility to stay with the times.
In short, we love this game. And we love this community. We're not going to be leaving this game to work on some other game. We're with it and you guys for the long haul.
I won't be around to answer questions until next week so I hope this answers some questions.
Yeah, I'm enjoying Elemental in its current state. Glad I was finally able to get it to run. lulz
And yet your assessment completely ignores Brad's (and Stardock's) dedication to address these issues as quickly as possible. So please, continue to quote the consumer's opinions and ignore what Frogboy has himself stated. It will be handled in a timely fashion and is their number one priority.
The game wasn't unstable though.
1.0 was fairly stable, at least as much so as most PC games on release day. 1.05 was/is very stable.
To some it was unstable. I can sympathize with that. For me, the only crashes I experienced were the ALT-TAB crash (ATI compatibility issue) a couple of times and the memory leak (resolved in 1.06) one time.
Wouldn't have to adress all this quickly if the game was properly tested, and launched later.
https://forums.elementalgame.com/394104
That is difficult when playing the game I really want to play has.. 'issues' which rapidly detract from my enjoyment the more I 'try to play'. I look forward to an AI patch that makes the other factions 'sane' and motivated to win by quest or research victory when enabled, I look forward to a stability patch that will allow me to play as long as I like.
I still have crashes to the desktop, post 1.06. I have Study Spells bug, where I can't click on that and other items if I click on another action. (I won't go into detail about my bugs. I've done that in the support forum. ) So to me, this is still not a stable game.
This is completely irrelevant at this point and has been discussed ad nauseum.
Honestly i bought the deluxe version but after reading up all this comments , i havent even run it , i will give startodck a month maybe 2, i got other games to play.I want to have as much fun as possble, be amazed by my first contact .
I aboslutely loved galciv 2 got all expansions , still palying agood game thats draging for the last week, so i aboslutely have big warm feelings towards stardock.+ Brad you write funny posts:).
But im pretty confused and saddened by what happned here (supposedly as i havent run my game as written above).
I mean i still remmber reading posts from Brad saying " we have all time we want, this game wont be pushed etc., stardock doesnt need that money that bad ".Why the hell did they do this then?Why not wait another couple of months?
Dont understnad but as written , will wait 1-2 months before runnign the game, and hope to be amazed then:)
And nearly all poeple complain about AI .How come? Galciv2 had one of best ais imho , and i was sure Elemenatal would be even better.Without good AI a turn based single player game is just boring imho....
A bit disapointed but still hoping customer, good luck Stardock.
I dont see why it's irrelevent, and just guess why it's been so much discussed.
<snicker> Wikipedia
Ok, instead of crap, I'll say "bug-ridden", I experience a slow-down the more turns I play, which I've read elsewhere, I've experienced some actions that refuse to work, which I've discussed in the support forum. That's crap to me. Its not an exaggeration. I didn't say "unplayable." That would be an exaggeration. Its certainly playable.
I think my point is being missed. I understand what Brad wrote. I realize it will be improved later. My point is I'm sick and tired of giving these companies an advanced payment for a game that may or may not be better in a few months. I could see if I was complaining about features I just don't like about the game. They exist, but I haven't even addressed those. If it was simply that, I would ask for a refund and chalk it up to Elemental not being my type of game. Its the bugs. Its the crashing. Its the slow-down. To me, its unacceptable. I don't care about the history of the gaming industry and how its normal for us to pay for beta versions and receive updates along the way. I get it. What I'm saying is its time for a change, and Elemental is the perfect example of why its time. I don't want to pay to test your game. That's what I'm saying. It's great that Brad is addressing the issues. But it doesn't stop the trend of what companies ship out. It sounds like a great many of you think this is just power for the course, and we should just sit back and be cool with it.
What if the appliance industry did this? What if you bought a refrigerator, and it only stayed cold part of the time. Would it be ok with you if the manufacturer said they will be releasing a part in another month that will constantly keep the unit cool? Or would you return it for a different model? I think we all know the answer. So my question is, why is this ok behavior for a game company to do this? I already gave the example of the software company I work for, where if we release a buggy product, either the customer won't pay, will receive a discount, or sues us for breach of contract. Yes, the business model is different between customer and developer in the business world than between gamer and developer, but the concept is still the same. I just think its time we as consumers take action instead of simply sitting on our hands waiting for the product we purchase to get fixed.
Good argument, i feel the same
This is extremely relevant. But with all due respect, your statement is one of the main reasons why game companies continue to distribute beta-quality products. Its not enough to discuss something once. For things to change, your voice has to be heard. So let's not try and stifle someone's opinion just because you've heard it before.
A free piece of advice: Ignore the forums. They are full of trolls who, after being disappointed for one reason or other, blow the whole issue way out of proportion. Most people who actually like elemental are playing it and not frequenting the game's forum. Fact is, more than half of the people who bought the game like it even in the current state: https://www.elementalgame.com/journals
Play the game yourself and form your own opinion. Chances are you'll end up like me, playing it for hours until you realize its almost morning outside.
You know i am not the kind of guy who likes critics , it's just i think i was expecting too much and therefore i am very disappointed.
Must be my way to express it.
Most by a small margin of the people who are on the forums and actually going to respond to the poll. I suspect there are more fans in that poll than random people who saw the game on a shelf at wal-mart. I think you missed this part though so I will bring it up for you again.
He's not calling people who are disappointed and unhappy trolls so why the hell should you?
Dont worry, i dont feel like a troll ,even if i am disappointed .
Even you recognize his was at best a waffling 'apology' - akin to 'I'm sorry you made me mad'.
A real 'apology' would have been "...and if that version of the game is considered flawed..."
Why is this an important point to make?
-First, Brad sold the game in part on the promise that it wouldn't be released early. Reasons he gave include 1) that's how SD works 2) he has other revenue streams so money wouldn't be an issue
-Second, when it was announced around the end of June that Elemental would be released in Aug, a number of us beta testers very politely and respectfully questioned whether it would be ready in time (see this thread for an example, and this post of mine -- the whole thread is an interesting read for those who weren't around at this time). The response to these polite and respectful questionings was adamant (and in one example, rude) -- elemental would be release-ready by August. It was revealed that release would be august because they had painted themselves into a corner, due to securing retail shelf space, of their only choice being Aug or Feb, and they dismissed Feb so were left with Aug.
-Now, we have seen the aug release. Is it release-ready, judged by reasonable standards and by what SD is capable of? I argue that even allowing for 1.06 to be the release version, and while the game is fun and 'playable', it doesn't meet the standards of:
-gamers generally
-what Brad promised
-what I expect SD is capable of
Live by the Sword, die by the Sword. If you're going to make promises then you can't complain when folks hold you responsible for not meeting them.
So what problem do I see with Brad's point 7? I pointed it out -- his 'waffling' regarding the game being flawed. I argue that reasonable people can judge the release flawed, and many have posted such, here and elsewhere. The fact that the SD folks are now still working their butts off patching, instead of taking off well-earned time after the pre-release crunch, suggests they agree that the game is flawed enough that they need to do said patching now and not later after a vacation.
Why do I feel it important to point out Brad's waffling? Because accepting that a mistake has been made is important, especially if one wants it to not be repeated, as I hope it won't in whatever game SD next does. Because if you make a promise and don't keep it you should be man enough to admit it. Because a non-apology is worse than saying nothing.
You want to call me a troll for this, even though I've put a lot of work into beta testing, and made and still make a lot of very positive posts regarding SD and Elemental (see here where I list a few recent examples, and the link above this for an example from back in June). That's fine, be my guest, it's a free country, etc. I'm an adult and will give this post of yours all the consideration it merits.
I stand by my statements here, and elsewhere.
I think your post does Brad and SD a disservice, because:
-they're capable of better
-they're adults and can handle criticism, especially criticism that's backed up by facts and examples
-they've earned this criticism by their actions
-it's for Brad's own, long-term good
-Elemental's customers deserve better than they got (at release -- they will get better eventually)
In the end Elemental is just a game. What's important is how we act, that if we make a promise we either keep it or accept responsibility for not doing so, that we treat others according to their merits.
EDITED TO ADD IN: Among the other things I've commended SD for, I want to add that their allowing criticisms such as mine to remain on the forums is commendable. I know these aren't easy to read. I hope/think they understand that these posts intended to be constructive and are made with what are thought to be SD's and Elemental's and Elemental's player's best interests in mind. Reasonable folks can disagree, of course, but that's part of what makes life interesting...
So. I didn't buy StarCraft II. I did buy Elemental and the version that I got thru download and box was version 1.0. I know we're up to 1.06+ now in patches but reviewing anything other than 1.0 is deceitful. It's not what consumers will purchase off the shelves. Reviews are supposed to be beneficial to consumers not to publishers or developers. How is reviewing anything other than 1.0, the original version on store shelves, helpful to the public? It's up to the publisher/developer to make sure that a game is finished before selling. Not sell then finish. Let's not kid ourselves either. Even after 1.06+ this game still has a long way to go before being finished. What's the problem with reviewing the 1.0 version? It was good enough to sell to retailers and to consumers. It's only when the game ended up in a bad light that all of a sudden 1.0 shouldn't be reviewed. Seems a little deceitful to me.
for Nick-Danger
It's not only a question of bugs. The release versions of many games are bugged, but I have a feeling that Elemental is not feature complete. I think many features should be added and changed to make this game really enjoyable.
Politicians promise a lot of things too and never follow through. Someone new to Stardock has no idea what you're talking about and yet you expect them to take it on faith. That's asking for a lot especially after they bought this game and had problems with it. The question is Why should Brad and Stardock be trusted now? Just because he says so? Actions speak louder than words. From where I'm sitting a lot of what Brad said is nothing but damage control and his whole Gamer Bill of Rights crusade was nothing more than a sales pitch. It's hard to believe or trust a company who was willing to sell me a unfinished, unpolished product.
Expansion pack in February. Cannot wait to see the forums explode again*.
* not that they have stopped yet
Well if everybody is honnest, we have to admit that the launch of EWoM is a failure.
Now SD has a lot of work to do in a short time to satisfy their clients.Because we may be fans we are first, customers who paid for a product,a game we thought would be entertaining.And, i speak for myself but i think for many too, isnt fun actually.
Too much lack of lot of things i dont even think if SD developperers know where to start.
I was a lot on the forum today,and OMG i saw so many things that need to be fixed,improved,added to the game it's kinda scary.
So yes good words are nice to see, but first we need results.I perfectly understand, i make a concession, that everything wont change in a week but you chose to release on august, it wasnt ready, so it's time to throw patches out and not words.
I for one want something new to see on impulse to DL and not read the forum endlessly waiting for the divine ark to fall from the sky.
One thing is to be disappointed and unhappy, another thing is scaring away people who never even tried the game by claims like "the game is unplayable","the game is crap", "it constantly crashes" etc. etc. which are patently false. The former are unhappy customers, the latter are trolls.
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