There seems to be some lack of clarity on how and where you can build improvements and resource nodes. So here's a guide, I guess, to how it all works.
Updated for 1.07
To do: Update to use the term resource horde since that's what Stardock uses
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[ Definitions ]
Tile: One unit on the world map. If you have the grid turned on, those are 1 tile.
World Tile: Same as above.
Square: One buildable space unit. This is equal to 1/4th of a tile.
Space: Same as above.
City: What you build with pioneers. Anything within the city walls is considered a part of that city.
City Tile: A tile that is considered part of a city. A city tile is any tile with an improvement on it. Special case with resources (see below)
City Center: The initial tile that a city is founded upon. It will change appearance as the city increases influence and level.
Town Center: Same as above.
Enclosed: When something is surrounded by city walls and thus within the city limits. Improvements by default. Resources depend (see below)
Usable Space: A measurement of how much space a city has to build with. You can find this in the city detail screen. This is the same as Open Tiles and starts at 50.
Buildable Space: Same as above.
5-tile limit: The 5 square area away from a city that other cities or improvements can not be built within.
[ Building Limits ]
Every city has 50 squares of buildable space. This does not increase; you can always destroy buildings to free up space. Some buildings will take up 1 space while bigger buildings will take up 4.
Any part of your city counts as 'city' for purposes of movement. A unit can enter the city on any tile that is considered 'city' and leave on any tile adjacent to a 'city' tile. Thus if a unit enters a city that is 1x4 world tiles long from one end, they can leave on the other end at the cost of only 1 movement point.
Any part of your city counts as 'city' for purposes of defense and military engagements. Thus a unit trying to enter any part of the above 1x4 city would have to face the defenders with the city defense bonus.
Cities and improvements can not be founded or built within 5 tiles of another city tile. It is important to remember that this limit is based off city tiles not just the city center itself.
[ Improvements ]
Improvements can be built on any square bordering an existing city square. This can work on both diagonals and horizontal pieces. As with cities, they can not be built within 5 tiles of a different city square.
There are few restrictions to where you can build improvements. You can not build on non-walkable terrain (steep hills, mountains, and water). You can not build on beaches (other than the harbor improvement). You can also not build on forests. The latter are important; not all the tiles in the game are distinctly forest or beach; some of them may have only a few dead trees or such to indicate what they are. Thus it may see 'clear' but not actually be clear. You will need to use the terrain window (upper right) to check. You can build on swamps.
You can also build improvements outside your influence area as long as all other requirements are fulfilled. That is, if building it keeps you under 50 squares, and if it's far enough away from any other city's tiles, and it's next to another existing improvement, then you can build it even though it's outside the area of influence. If you do so, the tile with the improvement will produce its own influence for itself.
Improvements count as part of the city. As such, even if there is only one improvement on a tile, that tile counts as a city square for all intents and purposes.
2x2 buildings can straddle more than one world tile; they do not need to be contained into one world tile to be build. I've checked this on two tiles and need to check using 4.
[ Resources ]
Resource nodes are special and a result of a lot of confusion and ambiguity.
As long as a resource node is outside the city limits (it is not enclosed by the city walls), it is -not- considered a part of the city for any purpose. It only provides resources and can be attacked independently of the city. If there is an improvement within 1 square, a resource node will be enclosed. This makes the resource a part of the city for -all- purpose. It will count as city, allowing you to build improvements off it that do not connect to any other 'normal' improvement.
However, it will also count as a city square - thus allowing movement but also preventing building things within proximity. As of 1.07, resource hordes
Not Enclosed Resource: Provides resource, is not protected by city units, does not consume usable space, can not build improvements off, is not considered a city tile for purposes of the 5-tile limit.
Enclosed Resource: Provides resource, is protected by city units, consumes usable space, can have improvements built off it, is considered a city tile
Non-enclosed resources are built using their own independent building cue. Resources that would be considered enclosed are built using the city's queue.
What this all means is that resources can act in two different ways and change what they do depending on what you do. Most importantly for other cities, this means that a resource can change state from not-a-city to city. This in turn will change which tiles are considered within the 5 tile limit.
Resources -always- benefit from multipliers in the city it is linked to, enclosed or not.
[ Examples ]
( Example 1)
Say you have two cities (A and B ) with a resource (R) between them:
[A] [ ] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [B]
A and B can build improvements normally. They respect the 5 tile limit and they can build all around them. All seems well. A decides to build improvements towards the resource in order to enclose it. B also decides to build towards the resource for some reason.
[A] [X] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [X] [B]
The moment A finishes it's improvement, something -very- important happens. R is now considered part of A; it is now a city tile. This means that B is now -inside- the 5 tile limit by 1 tile. This prevents B from building more improvements on that side, regardless of space. If there is a forest or some such on the opposite side of B, then B will not be able to build in that direction either. This is because B is on the edge of the 5 tile limit but the tile past it is not.
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( Example 2)
Here is another example (and probably more common). In this case, there are multiple resources near by and they are touching.
[A] [ ] [R] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [B]
[A] [X] [R] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [B]
A builds and encloses the nearest resource. Then, he builds the second resource; that encloses automatically since it is linked to the first resource which is linked to A.
Now, the both resources are considered part of A and a city tile. But, now, suddenly, look at the distance B is from A's city limits! B is not 1 but -2- squares within the 5 square limit. As a result, B can not build -any- more improvements since any improvement would be inside that limit. The only time B could do so is if B had build two improves in the other direction -before- A did. Note that resources that are not enclosed do not suffer from the 5-limit. So
[A] [ ] [R] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [B] [X] [ ] - B builds X and the player builds on both resources.
then
[A] [X] [R] [R] [ ] [ ] [ ] [B] [X] [ ] - A builds towards the first resource and connects them; again, both enclose since they touch.
In this case, B could then build improvements off the existing inprovements since that tile beyond them is outside the 5 tile limit.
( Example 3 )
Save you have a big city with 4 spaces left. You build a resource building that will cause it to be encircled. Since the resource is 'city', you will now have zero usable space left. If you have less than 4 spaces left, I don't know yet how the game will react but it may mean that clearing out a few buildings may not bring you over 0 again.
[ Special Note: Town Hall and Influence ]
The town hall and the empire equivalent increase influence, according to their description. What does that mean?
Influence is a hidden number that seems loosely based off prestige; that is, they seem to have close to the same growth rate. The amount of housing available determines how much influence a city can have. This in turn determines the size of the zone of control a city projects.
This radius is normally centered on your city center. Cities will produce a circle. Town halls act as a second city center, effectively projecting a second circle of equal size from their tile. Note that resources also must be within a certain distance of the city to be linked to it. This presumably affects that as well.
In effect, that level 1 city can grow it's zone of control without leveling up by using its improvements to span a greater width. The effect is also more noticeable in larger cities with sprawling layouts.
What these buildings allows a player to do is build cities further away from resources while still keeping those resources in range of the city. The question of whether you want to build in a cluster of resources or not depends on how big you want that city to grow, how much protection you want on those resources, and what not.
[ Special Note: Enclosed tile with no improvement on it ]
It is possible to create a city where a tile has no improvement on it but it is otherwise enclosed in the city walls. In this instance, the blank tile is not a city tile. A unit that walks into that tile will not enter the city. Therefore, in order for a tile to be considered a city tile, it must have an improvement on it. Resources, of course, only count as city tiles if they are enclosed.
Something to check out is enclosing a resource without actually touching it. My guess at this point is that it will not use up any city space and not be considered a city tile. However, with improvements all around it, it could effectively be defended for all intents and purposes as while no space around it holds an improvement, the world tiles around it would be considered part of the city.
I hope this helps clarify this.
Ooh, amateur game designer -- with emphasis on "amateur". Not sure I can manage my way out of a wet paper bag, though.
A few detailed questions based on a 2nd reading:
Someone suggested not founding a city adjacent to a resource, but rather 1 tile away, so they'd be in a separate build queue. But how long does it take for influence to spread far enough to build on such an outside resource? since you can't fulful the "build outside influence" requirements without connecting it via other improvements and thus put it on the city's build queue? I usually want the benefits of the resource soon enough that I settle next to it.
Resources will always get "walled", if they get near city walls, irregardless of prohibition to build buildings that are less then 5 tiles away of other city.
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It takes around 10-20 turns (not sure how much exactly) to get level 2 influence around city. So if you don't need resource ASAP, building 2 tiles away is OK.
Edited with your suggestions dalamb.
In improvements outside influence, I've gotten up to 3 tile away before the influence bubble caught up. This would be something I'd have to catch for specifically so I could get all the resources lined up to help make distance fast.
If he builds R1 and R2 first, they will automatically enclose as soon as something comes in contact with them. Remember that until a resource is enclosed, it doesn't count as a city. I will make that clearer. To answer here though, say he builds R1 and R2. Right now, they are not city tiles and can exist anywhere within range of a city. The moment A touches either of the resources, they link up - in this case, both of them since R2 is touching R1 which is touching A. Even though R2 is not directly touching A. You could even build off R2 (if B wasn't there) since at that point, the resource is considered part of the city.
But yes, the system is... not very clear.
Yes, resources -always- get the multiplier.
A city has to hit 10 citizens and a few turns after (guesstimate with +2 prestige is 3 turns) to get a 2 square radius. I will have to check with a non-Royalty sovereign as whether the +2 prestige translates or not into influence as well.
I did a brief experiement. Settled capital on turn 2 adjacent to a farm and with a 1-tile gap from a lost library. Border popped on turn 14, so that looks like 12 turns. Was able to start the LL and it definitely didn't appear on the city build queue. So, the advice about how to use the 2 separate queues is really valuable in the early game, when getting going faster (presumably) makes the most difference.
Warning: if you're trying this sort of experiment, make sure to click "end turn" after you click on the hammer to start building the resource: my farm didn't appear on the city build queue until the following turn. Thus when influence expanded to the LL I waited the 1 turn and verified that indeed it didn't appear on the city queue.
Re resources always getting the multiplier: I had forgotten the bit about how a resource gets "associated" with a city even if it's outside the walls if it's close enough, so y'all had really already answered my question. I'm chagrined at how often I fail to deduce the consequences of things people stated pretty clearly
Nice test. I'll check with Royalty (starting a new game for 1.07) and check for the pop. It'll help check to see how closely related prestige and influence is.
No worries; I'm not always clear myself.
Also, update for 1.07: resources do -not- use up space any more. So at least this issue is cleared up. I'm assuming that other aspects are the same but I'll be checking that.
Okay, quick update; with a Royalty sov, the influence popped to a 2-tile radius on turn 13. We can probably assume that I goofed up somewhere along the way. So influence likely has a constant increase that isn't affected by prestige or actual population, only housing cap. I'm wondering now how population plays into it. Perhaps it's some sort of 'hypothetical' population? Not really sure how to describe it.
Pop = 10 and housing = 10 . Next turn we would have 11 pop except for the cap. Influence increases to 11. Several turns later, the bubble pops to the next level, say influence 13. Population is still 10 though. Once it pops, influence doesn't increase any more until the population starts growing again?
I could have sworn that a dev wrote somewhere that influence is a hidden stat based purely on population cap. I can't remember where, though.
Also, does anyone else think that it's ridiculous that an improvement inside or adjacent to your city goes into the production queue? The result is that you build more efficiently if you don't build next to the resource. It's another case of a completely unintuitive mechanic with no significant gameplay benefit. It should go just like the resources-counting-for-tile-max mechanic went in 1.07.
Just read the whole thread and I find it strange that nobody has yet brought up any of these things:
Question:
Do people really build cities close enough together that the whole 5 squares thing is a valid concern? I suppose if you capture an AI city that could happen, but honestly I have never had sufficient density of resources to build cities even close to close enough to make that a concern.
Obvious Advice (pre-1.07 since this is now fixed):
Always found cities at least one full tile away from resources and then build away from said resources so you don't ever have to worry about getting connected to them, yet are close enough that you can pop troops out to defend them with ease. Saves you from wasting build tiles.
Exploity maneuver:
When building improvements push them out in a long, thin, straight line (diagonal if possible), towards other cities of your realm, or towards areas you may build cities in the future (remaining cognizant of the 5 squares thing). Then if you have to move troops between cities without the use of a teleporting champion you can enter one end of a city and exit 20 squares away at the other end for one move. Saves a TON of travel time, even over taking a road. This should work even better in 1.07 since you can build resources into the chain now for free.
Oh, and as to the population/prestige/influence thing. Prestige = population gained per turn. Population controls city levels, so higher prestige = faster city leveling. Intermediate influence gains (there appears to be one in between each regular level gain) happen a set number of turns after the city gains a level (12 turns after founding, I think 6 or 7 after gaining level 2, etc.) Prestige appears to have no affect on this at all.
Here is another horror story, how city far apart, became too close to other city and blocked it from buildings anything:
https://forums.elementalgame.com/394890
arentol: I've definitely had cities close enough that expanding was a problem, since terrain constrains expansion too -- can't build on steep hills, can't build on forests, can't build on water or those "partial" tiles next to some water, etc. (though the hills are vulnerable to Lower Land, of course). I've definitely had one patch of resources close to each other and another patch far enough away that you definitely wanted another city, but close enough that expansion was restricted. It hasn't been a big problem for me, because so far I find choosing expansion direction to be a moderately interesting challenge, but some people obviously hate it.
The long-thin-city idea might be really interesting in this game -- different from the circular expansion that happens with some other games. That fast-movement effect will be fun to play with -- for a little while at least, and maybe long term!
The city highway would be fairly doable, at at least late game, with a level 3 city. Buildings along would get you quite a few tiles. I suppose it would also be a sort of 'great wall' depending on positioning.
Oooh, Great Wall! A long thin circle of cities, using Raise Land to put mountains in the 5-tile gaps. Weird but maybe worth doing once just for the hack value. Why always focus on actually winning the game?
If we could have both city and state buildings (buildings that serve the government and/or aren't necessarily tied to a given city), we could do it a bit better.
If your going to do something like that you may as well just raise land all the way around your cities. If you start a game in a fairly large open plain with plenty of resources and some mountains already partially surrounding it just dominate the entire area, build one city outside it, then raise mountains all the way around it. Then you have a secure resource center that you can leave undefended, saving resources.
You could also do something similar to block off a peninsula so the enemy would have to come over water to get at you, which the AI doesn't seem all that great at doing.
My comment about insterspersing long thin city walls with mountains was meant to be humourous, not a serious suggestion. "Hack value" is a computer geek term about just doing something because you can and it's interestingly strange, not because it's a good idea.
In the world of fantasy, interesting strange is a good idea.
From what I've read from Brad's notes on 1.08, it sounds like they will do away with the 50 tile limit. Huzzah!
I've been extremely careful in where I put my buildings in my cities, if there is a somewhat distant resource that eventually will be in the city's radius when it reaches or nears level 5 ... I'll wind up stringing a thin chain of buildings there because I know I won't have enough tiles to build everything. If (and when, now that it seems they'll do away with it in 1.08) the tile limit went away, I could make buildings a bit more freely, eventually buildnig toward the resources with homes.
Hopefully they will balance it out with something else; otherwise, even more so than now, there won't really be any reason -not- to have every building in every city.
Though for purposes of that sort of thing, I would love to see purely decorative buildings you could place so that at least you can make the city look somewhat normal rather than string cheese.
Even without the 50-square limit you wouldn't likely have the resources to build everything. A zero-food city doesn't rate an irrigation system even if you've got room to build it.
True, I was slightly exaggerating in that regard. Still, if I need to get that one or two extra spaces closer, I'll generally eat the cost if no other option.
50 square limit is barely ever issue for me. Especially since 1.07 removed resources getting counted as 4 tiles in this regard.
What is the issue is that you can't build improvements in places that are 4 or less tiles away from other city, which is in practice much more limiting faction then 50 tiles limit.
Yes, the 5-away rule has caused me problems sometimes -- but so far only in a very few Empire games where there seemed to be huge numbers of resources close together for some reason; the luck of the RNG I suppose.
Just as a small bump/update. I'm still around and will be updating this. However, I'm waiting for 1.1 because it looks to introduce many changes to the game as a while, some of which aren't in the beta patches. Thus rather than poke at things that may change, I'm letting them settle in presumably a more stable state. Also, I'm trying to make sure I can approach 1.1 with a clean palette for this as well as feedback; thus I'm intentionally not playing the game so any changes and such are more pronounced when I see them making for easier feedback.
sagittary:
A few quick questions for you.
1)
Lets say you've got a LINE of resources between two cities
A[][][]R1R2R3R4R5[][][]B
for example. can you actually link the two cities? if say, you build connections to either end with matching build-times? (I've actually seen similar setups. I have one city with nearly 10-15 resources easily in range. gods the boosts that city gets.
2)
Is it possible to delete/kill/raze a city? If you kill a Sovereign, all of their cities vanish... but sometimes the bastard tends to hide in their cities over and over, due to the quick-escape ability they have. and I end up with a dozen cities I just DO NOT WANT.....
Can we get rid of them ever?
3)
A bit out of the realm of cities. But is the ONLY way to get roads, is do a caravan to a non-you city? I know I saw something about something that lets caravans build roads faster. and dammit, why can't we boost their slothful speed?
1) Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never tried something like that but it might be a good thing to test out.
2) You have to research a tech in order to raze a city. I don't remember what it's called off hand but it's decently deep into the tree (at least for Kingdom). I haven't personally seen anything that says this will change with 1.1
3) Caravans are the only means to build roads at this point (pre-1.1). The road mechanic is changing in 1.1, if I recall correctly. As for their speed, you'll have to take that one up with Frogboy and Kael
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