I am really enjoying Elemental. However I feel it needs some more work. It just feels like I have to make too many concessions each game and am not really challenged. Also, the simplicity of the tactical battles was a HUGE dispointment and really kills my desire to start a fresh game... I like indie devs, and support this game as well as Darkfall, just so we can have more variety and push the quality of AAA games. I feel like their hands were tied as far as release date and its either support them or see 5 major studios release all of our content.
Anyways, I keep hearing people mention other RTS games like dominion and MoM etc. I would be interested in trying a new game while I wait for Elemental to get polished. One game that seems similar is HOMM5. I REALLY liked the tactical combat, but the overmap and strategy elements fell flat. Can anyone recommend any other games to try, hopefully one that is still rather recent (past 5 years Id say).
Thanks for any suggestions!
Oh, also has anyone heard the extent of mods? Could we put something as complex as HOMM tactical battles into Elemtental? How about have dungeons actually load up dungeons that are REALLY long tactical battle maps...
I agree. I played the Demo and the game bored me to tears and it looked bad. However it has a good concept. It really needs tactical battles to make it fun.
Actually Dominions has a fairly good level of tactical control; you can position your groups in formation on the battlefield before battle. You can also set the order from a drop down list for each group. You can set orders for archers (for example) to shoot archers, shoot nearest, shoot cavalry, etc, you can position leaders where you want them, etc .. And you can change everything based upon different opponents & different needs.
Any more control than that would probably swing game balance far to the human player's favor as the AI typically cannot compete, as shown in other games. I'd rather sacrifice ultimate player control & have a good AI than have ultimate control & beat the AI everytime; that'll sink the game everytime. Dominions has a good marriage of player control & AI ability on the tactical level using the RT mechanism. I kind of enjoy the post game "combat rewind" which is kool. I wouldn't change a thing, it works well in that game & that's the way I like it. The only problem with dominions is you can beat the AI pretty much everytime (on the strategic level) if you can make it past turn 50 or so & expanded sufficiently. Unfortunately, the same old AI weakness as 99% of all strategy games. It's otherwise a very good fantasy level strategy game, and I wouldn't change anything except improve the AI & a couple of other things (some of the aquatic nations had problems & there were some glitches with underwater combat as I remember). It has a good mod capability.
Dominions is fairly unique in the way it does battles. Games allowing you direct & complete control in RT type combat (aka: Age of Mythology, empire earth, age of empires, etc..) are a dime-a-dozen in comparison to Dominions type combat or even TB systems in general (which, unfortunately, usually have severly crummy tactical AI). It seems RT tactical combat is the only way of equalizing the AI & human as other systems tend to favor the human too much (much more often than not) and make a mockery of the AI, which is unfortunate but true. I might add that even in RT type tactical combat you still don't have 100% control, as you can't physically move guys around fast enough and react .. it's a hand-eye coordination issue more than strategy.
Basically, it's nice to have some variety as to types of combat systems to choose from. Dominions offers that. It's not the same old dime-a-dozen RT type tactical combat mechanism that's used in 99% of all strategy games nowadays.
Another thing I might add about Dominions. This game has had the best manual I've ever seen in a PC since ... hell, have to go back to the late 80s & early 90s when they actually made quality manuals for PC games. Blow-by-blow explanation of how tactical combat works & castle' resource gathering zone, all the way down to the numerical math formulas used by the game system. A friggin awseome manual there and A+ as far as that aspect of game review is concerned. This is how all PC game manuals should be. I wish elemental had a manual that was even half that in-depth.
:: twitchy buttons ::
I'm not a fan of 1 snake or 1000 snakes being basically the same unit. Like ... regardless of how many "unit X" you have, it moves the same, acts the same, attacks the same ... the only difference is how much damage it can give *and it always gives max damage, as if all 1000 snakes are attacking at the same time*
I mean, the Kings Bounty games are great ... but there is nothing "war-game" about Kings or HoMM.
Recently, my friend gave me Romance of the Three Kingdoms. It is fantastic. It seems simple at first, but there is so much going on with politcs, marriages, titles, etc. If you love unnecessarily complex strategy games with roleplaying and minor magical elements, I really can't recommend it enough.
You are a low ranked governer and must win the three kingdoms and unite them under a single banner. You can do this with propaganda, assassinations, public debates, duels, spreading foul rumours, and so much more. I'm loving it.
Kings bounty crossworlds (Includes all 3 Kings bounty in ultimate ed)
Heroes of might & magic 3&4 i think it was 3 w/expansion that was one of the better ones i think 5 blows they went 3d and i think got bought out
Fantasy Wars, & Elven LEgacy ( both same game elven newer release its same think as fatasy wars 2 or an expansion for it theres 4 elven legacys)
X-COM UFO Defnense
UFO Afterlife
UFO AI (Open Source PRogject)
If you love Turn Based games, get a Nintendo DS. The thing has a MASSIVE amount of TB games. Most of them pretty darn good.
I find myself playing more and more on the DS.
Well that's your opinion and not agreed upon by the majority of players. It has a very wargamey feel to it. Tactical battles and spell casting during just like a Master of Magic game. I guess you want to say it's not wargamey either? The war is taking over the world map, there are battles to do this. Just like any war there is a strategic purpose and a tactical one and HOMM and Kings has both.
Actually it was version 4 that blows and that's when they got bought out not the 5 version. Plus it was versions II & III that are the best not 3&4. I personally like version II the best I like the large graphics and I like the way you can setup the AI before the game starts. Many different settings instead of just a handful of diffuclty levels like III onward.
Despite HOMM is one of my favourite games, I have to agree with it havig weird and not strategic "features". Those features were good for the first game, but clearly should be the way in which the game should evolve to improve new versions. the "1 unit takes the same place as 1000" is a clear example. But there are others, like not having upkeep or the infamous her chains. All of them were thing ok for HOMM1 or even for HOMM3, but not for HOMM6. And instead of fixing them Ubi wastes its time reinventing the part of the game that already works...
It was a very good game for it's time and would love to see a remake. However IMHO AOW:SM is better. I do still have the game but don't have a machine that I can play it on.
Well it does not give me enough control and I don't like that. I perfer Tactical Combat over just issueing orders before the battle and just watching. It is just not fun for me. Now I do likr the other aspects of the game but no TC is a killer for me now a days.
IMO it does not feel like a war game like CIV or AOW/MOM it feels more like a complex version of battle chess which is still good and fun to play. The TC battles pretty much have that Battle Ches feel. I love the game but I would not put it in the same class as AOW/MOM/CIV. It is not a very "Serious" stratagy game.
Ok, OK, seems that there are many decent games in this niche. Dominions 3, I will try.. tahnk you all for the info, and insight... nice to have a heads up before jumping inot a new world.....
tac battles played out by the PC? Actually, i think I might like this appraoach to tac battles. Too bad the game doesnt include a 'switch' that allows users to have the game ALSO allow user to play out the tac battle directly, in turn based mode, or unit based mode. But I like the idea of the leader giving general commands to units, and then, people being people, they do their best in the trenches...
Master of Magic is still the best turn based fantasy game ever. Behind it comes Warlords III & IV which is a fast paced great fantasy wargame. HOMM II & III are the best of that series. Age of Wonders first game is the best of that series. Dominions III is merely ok, the ai is pretty lame and the combat is rather lacking in that mostly all you get to do is WATCH the outcome. Setting up before battle isn't that much fun. But, there is a mod where you can play against up to 64 ai opponents so that will keep you busy for awhile.
You MUST get Master of Magic (MOM) though. It's like once you go black you'll never go back after you've played it once.
I concur. I recently bought both Master of Magic and the Age of Wonders Trilogy with the soundtrack.
Best $26 I ever spent.
I am having a lot of fun and am even more excited about Elemental's future.
A really great couple of games are Shining Force and Shining Force II for the SEGA Mega Drive (or SEGA Genesis if you're american). You play thru a RPG-style campaign with entertaining dialog and characters. As you progress in the story you can pick up different characters for your party. Different characters can cast magic, use bows etc. There are alot of different classes such as birdmen who can fly, warewolves etc. Coupled with different weapon choises that works differently in combat (not just more or less damage but for example you can use weapons with different range and such). The combat is similar to that in Civilization V in that you can't move thru enemies so positioning and deciding what combination of classes to use in your party is very important.
A similar game but in a modern setting is the Advance Wars games (I think the earliest addition to the series are called Nintendo Wars or something).
Dominions 3 rocks hard, you guys should play my mod nations! Why? Well, they are not that great, but they are from me! I need to update them...
Good thread - glad it got resurrected. Lots of good games listed. Just sticking to Fantasy TBS, I liked Warlords II and HOMM 2 and 3 - lost interest around 4 and 5 didn't like at all. Also big fan of Age of Wonders. AoW and HOMM 2 & 3 swallowed up countless hours of my life back then.
Never played the King's Bounty games or Dominions 3 - but may check them out now.
Speaking of King of Dragon Pass, never played it, but that reminds of Dragon Pass the boardgame from Avalon Hill. It was also set in Glorantha. Was originally called White Bear Red Moon. I loved the board game - wish I still had it. Must have been back in the 80's...
Gog also has the AoW series available.
What mod nations are yours?
I have 3 up I think, "Ul'Darath" EA and LA, going to put up the MA later today I think. And I also have a LA "Volcanus" which is a pale one nation. I need to do some more work on them, especially the sprites and balancing, but they are not the absolute worst ones you could play...well I hope not.
Thanks for the suggestion of Dominion 3. Loving it so far! Yes, the graphics are terrible, but thank goodness someone took a lesson of the older TBS games and used simultaneous turns with end turn processing. There is no way to have a large multiplayer turn based game without that. I'm really not sure why the industry moved away from that style (Conquest of the New World, Deadlock 1 & 2). Don't get me wrong, with a limited number of players (as in only two), games like Total War and Disciples 2 work ok. And even though I may be alone in this, I really dislike the way Civ V, for example, does simultaneous moves. The whole point of playing a turn based game is to get away from the clickfest that is RTS. I think even Lords of the Realm 2 had this issue (though it was a great game for its time).
I think the tactical combat of Magic: The Gathering - Tactics (http://www.magicthegatheringtactics.com) is great, because the units have different special abilities and the spells are powerful.
This game could be good. But it has two very big issues.
- Single player AI is a joke.
- You have to pay 100s of dollars if you want to win from time to time in MP.
If they can (or want) to fix those very big issues (at least the first one) it could be a good game. But right now, it could have the best ever design and would still be a bad game because you need to be rich to play it.
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