Based on my name, you can see I'm a big Master of Magic (MoM) fan. I've waited 16 years for a game to replicate the experience that the MoM provided back then. Though there were other excellent fantasy TBS games since then, even today I run back to the DOS emulator to fire up the old MoM once in a while just to enjoy the fun of imbuing a double axe with flaming, haste, and +6 attack, and then let it rip in the hand of Gunther the Barbarian. There's just something special in that game. Too bad there was never a true sequel to the game. Imagine my surprise when I heard Stardock was trying to do a game like MoM. Even if it did not get the brand name, as long as the gun has the fun ingredients and factors from that game, then I'll be more than satisfied.
I'm also disappointed to hear all the hoopla about the launch problems. It certainly didn't present a good invitation to me as a gamer, but I am still hopeful that the concept of Elemental is not lost. Keep in mind that even Master of Magic took until 1.31 patch to become the fantastic TBS that it was. I'm hoping by update 1.31, Elemental would be a much more polished game that everybody expected it to be.
Therefore I have not played the Elemental, but I will be as soon as it's improved to the point where I get to jump right into an enjoyable and balanced game. For now, to wet my appetite, I'm wondering for you Master of Magic fans, do you think Elemental has the key aspects of the original MoM that made it such a classic? And what can be done with Elemental to make it more fun. Perhaps this will give developers some ideas about how to fine tune the game to capture the "magic formula" for a classic?
The short answer is no, its not. But check back again in 3 to 6 months and we'll see.
Elemental has the potential to be as good a game as Master of Magic.
I intend on making Elemental as close to MoM as possible through modding.
You can learn more about the MoM mod here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/396558
I just played MOM and say that Elemental is very different than it. I think, AOW has more similarity to MOM than Elemental.
But, I say that Elemental has power that surpass MOM. the only weak point of Elemental comparing to MOM are it's magic system and the combat system.
Honestly, between AOW, MOM and elemental have their own strength and weakness for me.
AOW is too complicated and slow pace game play for my taste (it was good, but I don't like it)
MOM is clasic with good magic system (that not too complicated) and fun, but their Civilization gameplay is too simple for today gamers
While Elemental has RPG element and excitement with simple game play and strategy, but can't compete in term of magic system (as the magic system of Elemental is bad for the moment, the play list doesn't encourage the strategic choice but only... to break the rule and make the champion look strong)
This type of posts make me scratch my head and wonder if this is a troll or just a fanboy post..
Look at the name of both games Master of MAGIC and Elemental : War of MAGIC..
Notice the word MAGIC in both?
Saying EWOM has "power that surplass" MOM despite being weaker in MAGIC system is really insane.. MAGIC is the main thing in games like this. Similarly 4x games are war games essentially, so admitting EWOM is lousy in that area doesn't even help your case..
RPG element? What exactly are we talking here? the quest element? Totally boring..Civilization gameplay being too simple? The last I check civilization is the most famous TBS game series in the world the original civilizations are way more playable than most "modern games"..
Here's the problem with EWOM .. They focused on stuff that didn't really matter , quest system? dynasty system?? or were of perhaps lesser important, but totally ignored the ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF 4X fantasy. i.e Magic and Tactical combat..
So just because I have different opinion than the majority then you call me a Troll?. How democracy you are. People have their own opinion about something. I like Elemental, and I just play MOM and AOW SM (both still in my hard disk right now). And I just say, according to my own taste that Elemental has it's own strength comparing to MOM. Is it a troll? Or you just troll my post?
You are welcome to like or claim to like anything you want of course.
But your post has no other content beyond asserting your right to like the game (i assume you don't disagree that magic and TC are most important in games like this), so I have no other comment.
Yes, i'm agree that magic is the most important and MOM is definately still better at this area. I just say that Elemental has it's own strength comparing to MOM. But peace man, We just write our statement, everyone welcome here (even I'm a fan boy and you "hate" the current Elemental). I even don't say that Elemental is better than MOM. Once again, I just say that Elemental has it's own strength comparing to MOM. So Peace
Chill a bit, Luketan. His original post was neither trollish or fanboyish. It was simply his assessment. But you certainly did not hesitate to interpret it how you chose to and flame him. His point regarding:
The word he is looking for is "potential." Elemental has the potential to surpass MoM. And he is spot on.
Just adding my vote to the "not yet, but probably will be" faction. But it is still fun to play right now as-is.
The text medium makes it's difficult to tell if someone is "chill" or not. And yes everyone has to right to their assessment right or wrong. I truly believe that.
As for being "Spot on". Personally, saying something has potential is to me is a copout.. every game that is not finished has "potential" , that's not saying much really.
And yes, that's my assessment and I have the right to it as much as anyone right?
I wouldn't call it an heir per se. It's amazing how todays society as a whole perceives (in music, film , games, etc.), anything new as better. As of now, Elemental isn't close to MOM, but it has the potential to at the very least be its rival (I hope it surpasses it one day). MOM had bugs (remember the memory issues?), but it was quite complex and had a nice flow to the game. Simply stated, Master of Magic was fun, regardless of it's blocky deluxe paint-like graphics and animations.
IMHO, E:WOM mixes some fun with an amply supply of frustration. Although now fairly stable, it is still a bit of a mess; yet it is a very interesting mess which can be fixed correctly, but, it will take massive amounts of our time.
The game is presently overshadowed by a 90's 10 meg game, simply because it was mishandled and never finished right.
I hope no one attacks me on this post; I do mention these criticism in relation to MOM, because when I first learned out this title I was extremely passionate and engaged about Elemental's potential to be THE 4X game that would set a new standard. Unfortunately, I am starting to believe that this won't happen, even with these consistent updates. I sincerely hope that the Elemental team stops what they're doing, reorganizes their direction and workload, and may I suggest hiring or possible bartering (heck, give them a free expansion and a future credit for using their work) with some of these talented Modders, who seemed to know what they are doing?
As an ex-game designer (never again!!!) LOL, who was a team member and dealt with all the egos, back-stabbing and power plays, until I walked away after a dozen years, I see the enormous possibilities for Elemental. I want Elemental to smoke MOM, AND Civilization.
Elemental should be the new classic in 4x games. I hope the Elemental team can continue the repairs and reall add the content that this game demands and needs to surpass MoM.
IMHO, MOM still rules, but I would welcome a new sovereign taking it's place in the (near?) future. Cheers
No it's not, it's its own IP that has been explained by the company, were it close to MoM, there wouldn't be this much varied discussion on the matter, it would be sheer elation. It is it's own game and I very highly doubt it will ever be close to MoM unless it's ever able to be modded to be close to a MoM, I do not see Stardock doing it however.
Short answer is No.
Slightly longer answer is No, but hopefully it will get there at some point in the future.
All the elements are there, all the potential is there. But virtually none of the elements are really living up to their potentital yet, nor are they all working together yet in a fun, synergystic package. But there's at least a solid year of development left to go on this game, so we'll see how far they are able to take things. The game will certainly improve considerably, of that there can be no doubt. It's already improved a lot in the month since launch. Whether where it ends up will make it the spiritual heir to MoM is yet to be determined. Those are awfully big shoes to fill, there are very few DOS games that are still a blast to play nearly two decades later.
Absolutely not. Well, its exactly like MoM if you took out spells, heros, races, and artifacts. Other than those things, its pretty much like MoM.
There aren't any spells like Armegeddon, or Meteor Storm, or Suppress Magic, or Nature's Wrath, or any of the other overworld or city spells that made the game fun.
Elemental does have a few spells like level 1 fire nuke and level 1 air nuke and level 2 fire nuke, and level 2 water nuke, and level 3 fire nuke, and level 3 air nuke.
I always loved making my heros into one man wrecking machines. Get a few extra books and make an axe with Phantasmal for ignoring armor, and Haste for double attacks. Make a plate armor with magic immunity and invisibility, and then make a righ with stats and flying. What was the result... A flying indestructable tour de force that would crush all in its wake. There's nothing like this in Elemental and I don't know if there ever will be.
Out of curiousity, what was complicated about AoW? As a note, it can be fast depending on how you play and the map you are playing (At least in Shadow Magic, only just got the others).
While this game may be in the same spirit as MoM, it is not an heir. If anything it is a bastard child that is looked down upon by the royal family, but found a loving home amongst a humble middle class family. This child will never reach the glory of being one of the best 4x games ever (according to MoM fans).
Why? Because Stardock doesn't make the same kind of games that Simtex does. The same differences between MoO and Gal Civ apply similarly to MoM vs E:WoM. The gameplay is similar but the player focuses on and enjoys very different gameplay mechanics in Stardock's games. I personally don't like the way SD does game design, but thats a personal preference. I can say that with its own power, as far as I have seen, SD alone cannot change enough mechanics to make this game extremely popular so that people love it the same or more than MoM.
However, the key ingredient here is the mods. If I, for example, have enough control over the game using mods to make a MoM 2.0, then its a whole different story. We will see once the python code comes out how much we can mod, and I am sure we can get a group together to make a Mod for E:WoM that is a spiritual successor and subsequently pull off a radical democratic election where we throw out the ancient despot that rules the land and rise that bastard child to the throne, against all odds and expectations!
Well, every units have their own unique role (with unusual traits and skills), every race has their own strategy, every magic has it's own purpose. It is complex. A good game, I say. But, I can't stand with the Tactical Battle when you have a lot of units involved. It is too long for my taste, waiting for the AI shooting my units, while my archers do a lot of miss shoot because of obstacle. Then, there are a lot of summon. I can't even decides what kind of summon I should choose. There are pegasus, Lurker, sprite, etc. While they are annoying when at the AI hand, they are easily died in my hand. In short, it is a good game with a steep learning curve, I need to open AOW websites to learn the strategy (not the basic) so I can enjoy it again like before (years ago).
I think for the complexity, AOW is very complex, while Elemental is very simple for the moment. MOM, while for the whole concept is simple, but the magic system has the right propotion for the 4x magic game.
+1 My thoughts exactly.
Looks like you like simple games, where units/races are all simple and have similar abilities. This explains why you like EWOM and probably galciv.
Many of us (most?) prefer more variety in the game so playing Race A is a different experience from playing Race B.
Will not or cannot ?
My answer is that if you are truly looking to a game to be the next MoM- this aint it. I don't believe this game will ever be very close to MoM as it would take an almost complete overhaul of the game to do so. They are just nothing alike in execution of a 4x fantasy game. I am disappointed and frankly shocked that Stardock would release this as it is.
The areas that MoM (and what people want in a MoM type game) excels at are the great variation of units, races, spells, heroes and abilities. This game has very. very little of any of this. Yeah sure the city building aspect of the game may be better....couldn't care less, not why I buy these type of games. I want intriguing races and characters- NOT what I got. The races are not differentiated enough at all, and are just bland. That's a good word for this game-BLAND. All of the main heroes (the MoM equivalent of your main hero/wizard not sure what they call them in game) all look, for the most part, like humans with different colored skin/hair style and clothing. If you want to make your own...will the same thing- bland looking humans models to use. The game doesn't even feel "fantasy" in this regard. These guys could have stepped out of medieval England for the most part. There is one of two demi human looking guys but again BLAND and lame. I call it as I see it.
I am just surprised that after attempting to acquire the license to MoM Stardock made this as their "Fantasy " 4x game. Um, How? It is just so BLAND when compared to MoM.
I'll bet that Stardock is already completely sick and tired of seeing the three letters-MoM. When this game is made to be similar to MoM it won't be the Devs who do it; it will be the Community. I do predict that a damn good Mod for MoM will be made, by the community . Hopefully many of them. However, when all is done by the Devs this game will have little resemblance to MoM. What they do make may be good game (Need A LOT more imagination) but it will be THEIR game.
In answer to a previous post - this game is nowhere as good as Dominions 3 at current time!. At least not in the ways that I enjoy fantasy games such as this (as noted above). Had to mention that, couldn't believe it when I read it.
Many others will state this better than I but I had to put my 2cents out. I am shocked and saddened by this game.
All I'm going to say is I didn't buy this game for the game 'as is'. I bought it for what the modding community will bring to the table, once they get rolling.
I say: Spiritual followup: Yes. Close to MoM experience: No.
Main Reasons: Artwork & type of spells
I really hope they Stardock will produce an addon that will drive the game more towards Master Of Magic (the best TBS game ever produced in my opinion).
Screw 3D. Screw "up to date presentation". A game sux you in if the ambience is right, and the music/sound effects are immersive. It doesnt matter if you have full 3D or can zoom in and out seemingless. Those things are pushed by the press and the big publishers.
^^ The fact that people still love MoM today is a testament to the last part of your post. 3d graphics? Nope... Hell, MoM's graphics aren't even remotely decent by today's standards, but it doesn't matter because it gives you everything else you need and your imagination fills in the rest.
@OP I am one in that same group of having played MOM 15 years ago and have eagerly waited for this game to be released, seems there are a great many of us on this forum
In addressing your question: MOM was (in my opinion) a masterpiece of design (even with warts like a flying paladin SOD). Meaning it supported a huge variant of functions, paths and options for play without becoming cumbersome-impersonal or presenting a huge learning curve.
Elemental is a Beta product at this point. Its hard to evaluate as the design isnt done. I personally feel that when all is said and done (1+ year from now) it will have a revolutionary approach to this genre of game (not a Stardock fanboy, although I own Gal Civ). I base my opinion of the potential of what I have seen so far in terms of raw material, guess i must like the Beta since I have played it every night since its release. It feels different, not MOM, not CIV but something else, only time will tell if it becomes something solid and sharp with its own voice.
My gutt feeling though is when Elemental is done it wont feel/play like MOM, as such not sure any hereditary-title analogy will come true. This makes me sad, as I have waited a long time for MOM 2, but this based purely on my expectations. The nice thing though is having seen the what Modders can do (thank you to people who mentioned the Civ 4 mod in a diff thread as a MOM alternate) in the long run someone will make Elemental behave like MOM eventually.
Good forum, nice to know alot of old time PC strat gamers still exist
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