This is not going to be pretty, and maybe not that profitable in the short-term. I am going to sound harsh, but I do want this to succeed, as I see the potential. This is not intended as a slam on you guys- I hopee you know what I post here well enough, that you know this isn't just me begging or slagging.
Right now: the perception of this game is that it's unplayable, and that buying a Stardock game isn't worth it until at least a year out. That's not good for business.
Solution:
a) Next week, throw some mods on the site. There have been some decent mods made already that help the game out. The mod section needs to be more then just maps.
Get custom MP servers up ASAP after getting MP online. MP will help with the balance, since people will make MP mods to fix balance issues. That might be able to save you some manhours on balancing. If possible, allow for mods to be used on SD servers (work with the mod community on this)
c) Keep up the good work on support overall. I trust you guys fully on that, otherwwise I would be raging at you guys right now.
d) This is the part you might not like. You're going to have to eat short-term profitability on this, in order to help in the long-term.
You'll need to be aggressive on discounting once you can. (I understand you can't right now)
That said, the expansion. It needs to be a stand-alone game, with a bug-free, very generous demo out a month before release. Maybe even full game esque. The burden of proof is right now, (fairly or not), on you guys to prove you can have a solid launch. Showing the world what a year of your support can do for a game will restore your reputation (which is tarnished outside of here right now)
The downside is the fans who stuck it out will feel screwed over a bit, (I'm one of those fans) , but I think most of us would be ok with that , given the circumstances. Maybe give us the expansion at a discount based on when we pre-ordered elemental, or a loyalty bonus on Impulse when we get it? (not DLC, but a credit to use on other things)
e) Learn from your mistakes and don't rush future titles, even if it seems to make business sense at the time. It bites you back tenfold.
I never thought I'd be trying to tell a millionare how to run his business, but I'm trying to look at things from a cold, business side, not my gamer side. As a gamer, I'd be willing to hand over my money- I know I won't regret this ride. However, I know I got a minority opinion, and the Joe Average gamer right now- he's writing you guys off. I'm worried about the long-term damage that could happen, and how it would mean lower budgets for SD titles in the future, and less ambitious future projects- such as GC3. (I am motivated by self-interest here)
It's Impulse "specifically" I don't like. It's that they give developers the ability to put out stuff while easily fix it later. Back in the day All developers had to put out a Quality game because they couldn't just instantly patch it up via instant delivery. They had to put out a bug free fully working and balanced game on day one or it wouldn't sell because it would tank. They didn't have weekly or monthly patches and for the most part unless a sequel was planned once a game was released it was "finished". Single player games didn't "continually evolve", that's what I miss and my main complaint with online services like Steam and Impulse. Not that they don't have their advantages, but they have draw backs as well and it's gamers that pay the price.
I agree Brad's latest post does show that he's seeing what's happening and can admit to his mistakes, and that earns respect in my eyes and why I continue to buy Stardock products and support them whenever I can. Yet another thing that other companies don't do.
I want to see GalCiv3 as much as you do but I wouldn't expect it any time soon. They're going to concentrate on Elemental at least until after the first expansion. From what I understand "Societies" is supposed to be the next big project, but, lets keep hoping for a GalCiv3 some time soon.
See, I had enough experiences with games that didn't work as well as they should have back in the day that I'm much happier with Impulse, Steam, D2D, and the rest.
Look at the kinds of games it allows! GalCiv2, the new game Star Ruler, and Elemental--these are glorious games that became or will become awesome only have ripening in the glow of fan criticism and feedback. Stardock is MUCH larger than the 2-man shop that is making Star Ruler, but indie games (and yes, Stardock is still indie) fill a void for the hardcore gamer where the mass market no longer treads.
With the exception of big name brands like Civ, show me a game similar to Elemental that has come out by a major publisher/developer in the last decade. I can't think of one...
Star Ruler is good? May pick that up on sale eventually- Din's Curse is current indy game of choice though.
When I say soon, I mean 2013 or so for GC3.
pre-Impulse, people just played the borked games, not knowing any better. We expect more now because we get more due to the increased competition that DD sites are providing.
Calling Stardock an indie is like calling Butler/Gonzaga indies. They got enough money to not be an indie. To me indie is like Soldak or Talewords.
Back in the day, there was this game... you may have heard of it... it was called Pac-Man. Well, it had a bug where if a ghost was chasing you, it would reach a certain point where it slightly overlapped you and you could reverse direction and go THROUGH the ghost, avoiding being caught. This was a hole in the code that was never patched. Further incarnations of the game (Ms. Pac-Man, et al) did not have this bug/exploit.
More complicated games, hardware, people, have introduced more complicated bugs. Fortunately, we have the technology to get them fixed and patched.
The point is that I have no point other than bugs have existed since the dawn of computer programs. I even remember bugs in my Atari console games Pong and Pitfall. Stardock has the desire and the talent to make Elemental live up to its potential and their vision.
Ugh. I still really have no point other than everything is going to be just fine.
You guys are spacing on something. Everyone with a problem will show up to bitch about it. Almost no one else will bother.
Big picture, the shit has hit the fan press side, and Stardock has a lot of cleanup to do. This release was not a catastrophic fuck up though, or 54/46 in favor of the game wouldn't be there. The lion share of the player base really isn't having a cow over the game, or the forums would be crashing from the overload.
Before anyone has kittens over it, I had the bugged tactical battles that crashed the engine and I marked myself down for disappointed in the poll because I don't like how shallow the tactical combat and army building is. I'm an asshole, not a fan. I do have a firm grasp of reality though, something some of you should work on. This is especially true when so many of you are holding it up to Master of Magic. Seriously, bitching about instability, poor performance, and shit for brains AI, while comparing it to a game that was released in much the same state at a time when everyone was on the same operating system running 8 bit sprites. How long is the list of spells that still crash the game?
Worst game for severe bugs I've played in recent history. Civ4. It's just one bug that really pissed me off. The one where it craps out EAX loading up the fucking splash screen and trashes the kernel, hello hard reboot! They didn't fix it till BTS, they never did fix the broken options.
The crash bugs don't worry me, they will get fixed. The gameplay balance and making the many choices in the game all meaningful is where the real challenge is going to be because there is a lot of work to be done here.
A 54/46 split in the intensely loyal fanbase for a publisher that had huge gamer goodwill (look how gentle the reviewers have been because of this very thing) registered to your own forums is a giant problem.
I agree totally. I never cared about the bug myself (although people who bought the game without being diehard SD fans definitely did) but the design issues concern me deeply.
You know all this game needs is to clean up the detail more and maybe play with the tactic screen a little is all.
Eather way this game is not to bad yet still have alot to learn.
Thanks
Flynn O
Also not trying to slam the game, as I too see the potential for a decent game here.
On the plus side it definitely launched in 'playable' condition, but only barely. What I see it as lacking is any kind of 'polish', the whole thing seems very hastily done and some of the UI / gameplay interface decisions just seem downright baffling. (As in how did anything this clunky make it past alpha testing, let alone beta)
This game doesn't break much in the way of new ground here; we're talking a revamp of the old Warlords concept with a bunch of Civilization-esque tech trees and tile placement added in; so why does so much of this feel like you tried to 're-invent the wheel'?
As I see it, what needs to be done in the next few weeks (months at most) is to first and foremost squash the last of the crash bugs - until I can play for 4 hours+ straight and not CTD once, you have problems. After that, the 'random' maps and overall game AI need serious work along with some possible UI fixes while you prune the remaining text and tooltip bugs out as well.
I think the biggest point is that many people are going to put the game on ice for the next 6 months. It shouldn't be like that, it should be playable out of the box, or with the 0 day patch.
I for one can't play the game because of a memory leak, I like slow, epic games so I decided on large/epic. Now after 300+ turns the game is out of memory every 10 turns or so. And no I don't have an outdated computer. I have a quad core 2.83 ghz, 8 gb memory with 2x Radeon HD 4850 crossfire.
If I was the only one who was running into this problem, I would blame the rig, drivers, god's wrath. But there are plenty of people who are dealing with the same problem. So atm the game is unplayable to me. It is a decent game, not great but not awful but mediocre. Like people have said it is full of promises but fails to deliver, it's like a premature ejaculation followed by a post orgasmic depression.
I love strategy, I love tactical battles, I love roleplaying....but my biggest fear is that this game will just turn out to be mediocre. The tactical battles aren't decently implemented, riddled with poor game design and lack of direction. The spells are bland...heck they only go up to lvl 5 and the higher tier spells aren't even implemented. Why even have a Constution stat when it only controls Hit points why not have a hitpoint stat? If strength only governs attack why have a strength stat? you could solve character creation with Attack, Defense, HP, Essence and Magic Power. Then the movement stats Move and Combat speed. What I am most sorely dissapointed with asides from the bugs is the lack of game design which shows blatantly through the game.
Why am I ranting? because I'm dissapointed. I have been following this game for 11 months after I preordered it. I lurked on the forums for ages. I got so excited I threw the wife and kids out for the weekend (not literally) so me and elemental could get to know each other better. I knew I could trust Stardock, they are the best publisher, developer out there. Heck with the time I put in both Galcivs I could have learned three new languages and spoken them fluently. But now I feel cheated, abused, dirty even, the guy with the candy had an agenda and my trust is broken
I will put this game on ice for a year or two and see what happens. My most precious commodity is time and I'm not spending it on the game in this state. Civ V is coming in 3 weeks so I hope Sid doesn't abuse my trust too much (even though he has already with dlc's and extra civ in preorder deals)
I have been a long time customer of Stardock and was pretty happy until now. I bought Elemental purely on Stardock's reputation after briefly reading the description.
Maybe I am having more problems than most, but playing on a Win 7/64 (modern) system I am crashing so much, if it doesn't make the game unplayable, it makes me not want to play it. This is not a small thing, and based on some posts in the support forum, some people are having a worse time of it than me.
Plus there are other gameplay breaking bugs: chief among those the disappearing squad bug, when squads are reduced to 1 unit when saved/reload at less than max health. Resources not working correctly, cities not working correctly, bugged super monsters, AI players that don't have to obey the same rules you do, the list goes on.
I am not raging or hating on Stardock, I just expected more from a company that has "delivered" up to the present. Also, none of their other games released in this shape.....
Most games don't care about mods .... this will not have huge impact on the fame. The typical gamer wants a playable game out of the box. Not one that takes mod to be fun. If the game is fun and mod extends that fun .. great! But, if you need mod to make the game fun .. Mod'ing will not have a large impact.
This is not most games. This game was built with a primary intention of it being moddable. In other words, it was a main focus. Look to games like Neverwinter Nights 1 and Civilization 4 if you need a point of reference. The modding community for Elemental will rival NWN1 (it would be hard to surpass 9 years and counting) but should easily surpass Civ 4.
Stardock mods and community mods will have an ENORMOUS impact on this game, and will catapult its longevity. I would expect to see the life cycle of this game to reach 5 years as a result, potentially breaching a decade.
Honestly, the game feels unpolished. All the parts are there, and stuck together, they just feel like they have rough edges everywhere. But most gamers today really only care about polish and shiny gfx, so make of that what you will.
I would think a lot more of SD if Brad had come right out and said "we broke the gamer's bill of rights as well as the trust of our fans" instead of "... then don't buy our games".
After a weekend of trying to focus on the potential I have decided to get a refund. I hope this turns around for SD, but as this was my first experience with them I will definitely always wait for a demo from now on.
They did not break the gamers bill of rights. If you feel it is unfinished, you can obtain a refund based upon your lack of satisfaction. This adheres to the gamers bill of rights.
2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
Released means the version that was pressed on the disk, right? I hardly think even the most pious fanboy would have called 1.0 a finished state.
Why are so many review sites holding back there reviews if this is finished? Why does the support forum have 1100 threads if this is finished? Why does metacritic have this at 44/100 if this game is so satisfactory?
Can you not acknowledge that this game is fundamentally broken? I fear this game will never realize its potential with so many on these boards feeling the game just needs a few tweaks. Every other rpg forum the VAST majority is calling it shite RPGWatch, AoWHeaven, RPG Codex, RPS, Blues News ... but we're the ones that are all wrong, you SD posters with 6 digit member numbers are the mans with the plans amirite?
The game is NOT fundamentally broken, continue on your way please.
Its not a great number, the poll, but people could have put they hate the game or dont like it, but almost no one did. They put disappointed, and I am sure there were many people who were disappointed with the release who will change their minds soon or are hoping it will improve, so I don't see the poll as bad as you do.
Sorry, but I really have a hard time believing that you pay attention to this site and forums at all by making such an assertion about "most people" claiming that it needs "a few tweaks." "Most people" understand that the game needs work. Even Stardock does.
Discussions abound about methods to improve the game. These are open, civil discussions. Most people are well past your point of "the game is broken and unfinished" and are currently moving forward.
@Jharii
Yeah I read a bunch of forums regularly. Are you paying attention? 54% of people who visit these forums took a poll and said either they love it or like it and would recommend it. That is "most people" I am referring to. Had that poll been hosted somewhere a little less fan friendly, I assure you the numbers (ya know, out there in the real world) would not be nearly as positive.
BOTH Neverwinter Nights and Civilization 4 did not have a release like Elemental's.
Civ 4 was very fun on release and NWN had a perfectly decent campaign. Neither of them had major gameplay and playability issues.
Yes, we get it, Elemental is very moddable, but we (most of us anyway) didn't pay for mod tools.
People that like the game (54%) does not equate to people that think the game "needs minor tweaks." This simply means that they enjoy the game, bugs or not. I thoroughly enjoy the game as it is, but it needs some significant work. I think that most people that enjoy the game fall into this camp based upon the numerous threads that I have been reading. So you are making an assumption that is not based upon anything other than your assumption.
You are aware the entire magic system is still broken, right? 95% of the spells are unimpacted by shards, don't point to the proper variables, and/or don't function the way they are supposed to. Many are gamebreaking (confusion).
No way that a game predicated on magic should be released with the magic system broken.
Something about "thoroughly enjoying the game as it is" yet it still "needing significant work" (your exact words used in the same sentence) aren't typically synonymous, so I guess you are correct that I am making a bad assumption there
As for the defense of the 54% from the polls, I sure hope none of my friends would recommend something that still needed "significant work" lulz
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