I've been concerned about this for months. In fact, it caused me to sit out the beta and delay my preorder until last week. And after playing for most of yesterday evening and getting deep into one sandbox game, I realized I was right to be concerned.
The game lacks an epic feel. Most of the game feels like me and a small adventuring party running around conquering other empires. (How 4-6 guys could take over an entire empire is beyond me, but it's pretty routine in Elemental.) The armies are simply too small to give the game much of a grand strategy feel. I know the culprit: tactical battles. But I don't know why the presentation has to emphasize the idea that I have a few soldiers, fewer adventurers, and a couple of hundred peasants in my "grand fantasy empire."
An infamous early screenshot showed a dragon dealing with what looks like hundreds of armored soldiers. I have seen nothing like that in Elemental (but I knew not to really). Battles are between a few units on each side. In the early game, it's my channeler casting chain lightning and killing 4 spiders (or whatever) over and over. The few troops walking around with her feel like bodyguards or traveling companions, not an army.
The game never feels like I'm ruling an empire. There aren't enough cities. It feels like a small band of people gathering together for protection; a scenario not unlike the classic "DnD party finds a refugee camp and does quests to help" adventure.
I'm not sure how to fix this. You could change the graphical presentation to make soldiers look more like units than individuals (something that sort of happens later in the game, which only emphasizes the small scale of the early game). It could be more clear than 1 pop unit in a city isn't just 1 person. Heroes could be scaled back to where they aren't slaughtering what might be considered a squad or regiment of troops.
This is my major disappointment with Elemental. I just don't feel like I'm playing a grand strategy game. I feel more like I'm coordinating a couple of small adventuring groups around a tiny country with a few villages here and there where I can recruit other party members.
It really eliminates immersion.
The guy has a valid concern and offering a refund instead of debating or explaining why it is that way is dismissive. He explained himself afterword but that one post did not come off too hot.
Just to play devil's advocate. But the reviewers will review the 0-day patched version, or the "gold" one you consider "complete" ? Would you be happy with them reviewing the gold version only?
Its still bigger than Civ4, both in map size, cities and armies (in the sense that at least it HAS tactical battles).Thats all i ever hoped for, i'm very happy with the scale of it, and personally i call it epic, not the battles, but the game as a whole.
The game is less epic in scale than I expected, but that's fine with me. I agree though that the language used seems bigger than the game itself. Make it more of an "intimate" game. But embrace it. A "city" of 1000 should be huge in this world. So make me more impressed with it, or else awed that the land is so devastated that 1000 IS huge. That's my only issue with the scale now.
The only problem is MOM was MUCH more fun then this (despite the lame AI) IMHO. I am completely disapointed in the entire thing after falling for all the hype. The tac battles are nothing and maneuver or terrain advantages really don't seem to do much. Does flanking do anything? If not, what's the point of even having an animated tac battle?
The strategic part is a mass confusion of build this and build that. In AOE, I could at least see where I was overall buy looking at my material numbers but this game makes no sense. The research seems very odd too...
Explore dungeons? I expected something beyond a stupid "Go find the key in the woods" after reaching a dungeon.
This game gives me an epic feeling inside when I play
Really? I will take the refund... How do I get it?
Looking forward to the first reviews coming out.
Gee, I like the small "feel" of the game world. I don't need epic. I get tired of everything wanting to be epic. I do want addictive one-more-turn gameplay, and Elemental gives me that.
I thought it was petty.
And stop using my avatar.
Gameplay > Graphic.
I really don't mind having thousands or dozens of soldiers if the game is balanced. You know... in Vicky 2 (and almost all Paradox games) all your units looks like a single guy with a rifle, but it's only a representation. Your economic active population is represented as a POP, a single "guy" that actually is a whole class or category of you empire.
In Elemental is no different in some aspects in my POV. The special units are just like a Gandalf, Aragorn or someone who is unique, while the other dudes are just a lot of common dudes with weapons representing entire units of its type.
Sorry for the bad english, I'm brazilian!
Day 0.
Email sales@stardock.com. Tell them I sent you.
It's item #1 in the Gamer's Bill of Rights:
http://www.gamersbillofrights.org/
I understand that there are a fair number of people arguing with me. But it looks like I'm not the only person in this thread with concerns. Also, I haven't resorted to name calling. You can call me a douchbag, I guess if it makes you feel superior, but it doesn't change my argument that this game hit the shelves unfinished. I would imagine that many of the players who purchased the game for multiplayer would agree with me. Also, anyone who was affected by this post-release bug:
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/082410-videocards-behind-some-elemental-war.html
Stardock and Brad Wardell drummed up a *lot* of free press with their Gamer's Bill of Rights. The implication was that they were holding themselves to this standard that they said the rest of the industry should adhere to. I'm here asking what happened with that? Why not delay the release until they had a game with all the features that has been talked about? I *like* the Gamer's Bill of Rights. I was proud to be Stardock's customer.
Why is it so offensive to ask what happened? It's not like people in the beta forums didn't openly question whether the August 24 date was too aggressive.
Elemental is a finished game. You don't agree. Item #1 on the GBOR states you can get a refund. Because item #2 states that it is the GAMER that determines whether the game is done, not the publisher. We don't agree, but item #2 states that it is the gamer. Therefore, you can get a refund.
I'm not sure what you are looking for? I think the game is very good and complete. You don't. What else is there?
I didn't call you a douchebag. I said that you were making yourself look like one.
You have your options on what you can do at this point. Obviously, you want to stick around and piss and moan rather than get the refund that you can rightfully receive. Your repetition grows tiresome. Please, play the victim some more.
I swear, there are just far too many people in this world that simply walk around, just waiting to get offended.
Stand by this, then? The game I receive in my LE box will need no update?
So you get what we are saying when we say the game is not complete then? If you expect it reviewed with day 0, thats the complete game, not pre day 0. Just saying we should not rip apart people just for having an opinion.
I guess you can walk back the GBOR. It's disappointing. But you can't have the argument regarding multiplayer both ways vs. how finished you state the game currently is:
He cites "team exhaustion" because of an early release is why Stardock has not enabled multiplayer yet.
Yet you say here the game is finished. How can both be true? What about your comments back when you published the GBOR that companies should delay releases when a game isn't ready for release? Out of one corner of your mouth you tell us you can't fit in multiplayer because the release came too early, out the other you're good with the GBOR because the game is finished (ignore the game-stopping video card bugs). Huh?
It's beyond "just an opinion." It's become semantical rhetoric, borderline inane. Your response is just more of the same, trying to twist what is said into proving some kind of point. You think you are clever in doing this, but it is nothing more than throwing your baited hook in the water and setting the motor on low speed.
If you feel the game is incomplete, return it. Stardock has been completely transparent with their release plans, including the Day 0 patch.
lol...
Welcome to the internet!!!
Of course the 'fanboys' are out in force defending the indefensible, though it's all just pointless technicallities about what 'finished' means.
I mean, CLEARLY the game is not 'finished', it probably never will be, but that's not what Brad means by 'finished' anyway. Though I think people would have a larger quibble on this point if they stuck to whining about lack of multiplayer (oh, it's coming, but it's not here yet...), then again who really cares about MP anyway?
Is the game playable? Yep, sure is. Is it engaging? Well that depends on your point of view. Personally I think the SD crew should not even read the forums (other than tech support) for a day or two and just try to get their feet back underneath them. I'm sure it's been crazier than we imagine for them, and they are running short of sleep, and high on emotion about the release. Though engaging people in the forums in such a state is not wise. I don't know if Brad will regret his tone of late or not, but meh, I don't think it's really how he wants to come across, and I don't think it's how he would come across with a bit more sleep/distance from these first few crazy days.
It's full circle. You have absolutely no interest in the game, just to argue.
You realize you are sounding like a total hypocrite and are adding nothing relevant either right?
If I say you are in danger of becoming a douche will you just nod and say, 'well he didn't call me a douche'.
Are these release plans spelled out on the box sitting on a store shelf? Were they spelled out on the marketing email I received yesterday, which led me to the Elemental page and consequently to place my order for the LE box? (I'll give you hints; the answer has two letters, the first one's 'N', and the last one's 'O'.)
Agreed—it's also not a black or white thing. People should be able to express (possibly negative) criticism without being told to return the game if they don't like it. ("Love it or leave it!"—really?)
There does exist an intersect of people who (a) are Stardock fans, (b ) are dissatisfied with the launch state of Elemental in some form or another, and (c) want or expect Elemental to become the better game it can be. Don't dismiss them.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
