Disclaimer: I'm writing this post as neutral as I know how. It's not a disrespect of the developers - merely a list of issues (both large and small) based on my short time with the game so far. I have ONLY played through a portion of the campaign so far - haven't even looked at the "actual" game. These are legitimate concerns / issues with the game (from my POV) - I'm not sitting up at 3:00am for the fun of it. If you don't agree with something I've said: that is your prerogative; don't start attacking me because Stardock is your bestest of buddies.
How about we start at campaign?
CAMPAIGN MAP PRESENTATION:
The campaign was designed to get players into the game and familiar with the core mechanics and basic gameplay. So far it has failed in both respects. The opening cutscene was fine, not amazing or anything but it did its job well enough. The problems arise as soon as the player is given control over his character:
TACTICAL MAP PRESENTATION:
The tactical maps, and how to even GET to a battle on a tactical map are not explained in any way:
If I was new to the TBS genre I WOULD BE COMPLETELY lost. There is a very good chance I would abandon the game out of pure frustration / confusion. Even I was lost at times - not about the game play but what the actual campaign wanted from me. A tutorial itself should never confuse the player because then they're confused on two fronts: how the game works, and how to progress the tutorial.
I think that is enough talk about the campaign presentation. Again my experience has only been with the campaign, but now I will talk strictly about the game mechanics, features, etc.
TACTICAL MAPS:
There are a large number of issues with the tactical maps:
STRATEGIC MAP:
The strategic maps are probably the most polished aspect of the entire game:
PRODUCTION VALUES:
I guess a large portion of the budget when into developing the platform / (pretty) textures, models and modding tools (and yes, the core tech):
PERFORMANCE & BUGS:
EQUIPMENT BALANCE:
MODDING:
Well, it's not 4:14 am. You'll notice that large aspects of the game have been left out (research, diplomacy, etc) - like I said, I've only been playing the campaign. The game has great promise and I wish it to succeed in all possible ways (obviously since I paid for it). I wish the developers the best of luck and look forward to what they come up with. Hopefully my post hasn't been too ranty of everyone's taste and will be of some help.
alot of good points here. I wager much if it is addressed in the day 0 post, but still, thanks for the writeup.
while i experienced many of the same issues, it did not stop me from enjoying the game. it took me a good long time to muddle through the basics, but i think i have those now. the game is VERY fun, and the "One more Turn" aspect is HUGE. Elemental has great potential, and given continued support from stardock, and modding support from the community, there seems like a pretty good chance of that potential being realized.
A lot of these could be solved by a tutorial, which would have been a nice thing to include. Since the manual is from an earlier beta, I don't think it even mentions things like how to build on improvements by clicking the improvement rather then the city (which is confusing a number of people) or the tactical battle threshhold option (which is also confusing people and probably should default to zero).
Can't really argue with much else you said.
yeah very importat critiques
"the game does not explain how to end turn"
"my toaster does not explain i have to connect it to the power"
"my car doesnt explain me i have to put keys to turn it on"
plz...
Nice one. This is how to raise concerns.
I also know what to expect when i get home to play the game this eve.
You're on to something with the spell animations and combat animations. I keep thinking about that pic of the Triceratops looking thing batting away a group of men and they go flying through the air. I'd really, Really, like to see that in game. So far I've spent about an hour playing the game and about 4 hours trying to fix a text issue. When I get this text bug fixed then I'll start seriously playing/modding....and making a list of all things I'll "Suggest" get changed/fixed.
Good post, TP, covers a lot of ground here. Hopefully we'll see some of the miner annoyances get fixed on Tuesday.
Although I agree with ddd that some things do not have to be explicitly explained, this game does leave FAR too much to trial and error.
Great issued raised. I myself don't have much of a problem with the lack of a tutorial. However, the other issues (especially the performance issues) raised are definitely somewhat game-breaking.
That said, the core of this game is fantastic and you can see very well that it has been Stardock's labour of love.
I don't believe that the campaign was meant to be a tutorial. Also Brad did say that the campaign would not have the Tech portion of the game in it.
Im new to the game and im still trying to work out how to move . Is there an option to click to move as my mouse seems to be misbehaving if there is. Found to manual and got the movement keys So at least im now mobile.
I agree about the tactical threshold, having this setting set to anything other than 0 when nothing ingame remind/tell you of this setting is at best confusing for new players.
Yeah, I've been playing since Beta 1Z and I didn't know about the bonus tile in the tactical battles.
I wonder what else I've missed?
However, I have every confidence these things (and a lot more) will be addressed.
If this is your first Stardock game prepare to be amazed. They stick with their games and are almost constantly adding new things.
They don't abandon their games after the first patch or two. It's more of an ongoing process.
By the time we are at 2.5, you may not even recognize the game from 1.00.
I have a terminal illness called Huntingtons Disease. I am slowly losing my ability to rationalize. I need Tutorials in all games I play.
I agree with everything the OP said. I am knocking my head against the wall in frustration.
A tutorial is all I need to get into this game.
Regards,
Greg
In complete agreement with the OP. I figured out some stuff on my own, but many, the game does not help you in the slightest. I figured out what I needed to because I've played TBS and have been following Elemental closely. The lack of any instruction too takes a lot of polish of the SP campaign, adding to the abruptness and out of place events.
well as long as 90% of your gripes is there is no manual and poor documentation, and we can ask on the forums everything should be fine
I was about to post a similar thread, thank you for doing it.
I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything you've pointed out. The game is very promising and it can be fun, I am VERY thankful that they let us play the gold version (Thank you, guys!), but there are quite a few issues to be taken care of, at least in this gold version.
The one thing that bothers me the most at the moment is the feedback and control in tactical battles. Both are insufficient, which makes the battles frustrating, which makes me auto resolve them whenever possible. Apart from the rightfully mentioned points in the original post, it really bothers me that I am not able to scroll over the battlefield.
I am also extremely disappointed with the interface released. It screams of low-budget, sadly. It's not up to par with Age of Wonders or Master of Magic (I'm talking about consistency and grouping here), and nowhere near modern interfaces like King's Bounty or Anno 1701. Now, defenders of Stardock will say that they indeed did not have a high budget, but that is no excuse today, imo. Information is freely available and there are a lot of indie game creators even who get interfaces consistent and correct.
I've made threads about the UI here:
https://forums.elementalgame.com/385058
and more recently here:
https://forums.elementalgame.com/391373
Alot of good points there, good post. It presents a good list where most of my little annoyances are also covered. I do have faith though that with all the love Elemental will be getting these things will be taken care of.
http://www.useandcaremanuals.com/pdf/ST20001030.pdf
Toaster Manual - page 4:
This unit is for househod use only.
GETTING STARTED
• Unpack the unit and remove any packing materials or labels.
• Wipe the toaster with a damp cloth and dry thoroughly.
• Plug unit into electrical outlet.
Should I dig out a car manual too?
while i have yet to play the game for myself, i appreciate the OP taking the time to put together such a detailed list... constructive criticism can only help!
Everything has to be explained to exhaustion. The point of the game isn't to try to guess how X, Y or Z works. The game is about being the best at exploiting X, Y & Z.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the lack of in-game tutorials. It's a RTFM kind of game, just like any other Grand Strategy/4X game. What I mind is the lack of a manual to F'ing read. I probably will, but I don't want to have to read & help write the player-created Wiki for this game. I shouldn't have to. All that info should already exist in a manual in the game dir.
Tom Chick wrote the game itself doesn't understand its systems. He was wrong, at least about the example he used. But he shouldn't have been. The documentation and the game itself failed to explain how the systems work, leading the guy to take an action that should have produced a - to him - predictable outcome, but instead produced an unimaginable one. For a 4X game, that's about as epic fail as it gets.
Whatever... I actually just wanted to voice my total agreement with the OP. I'm taking some comfort in the fact that the game we're playing now isn't actually the release build. But man... The build we're playing is very much a beta - alpha even, considering how many assets seems to be missing. My faith in Stardock's ability to release something release-worthy is shaken.
OP has summed up my thoughts after dabbling in the campaign myself.
It really wasn't that straightforward to figure out how to get units stronger than peasants to accompany you... I didn't figure that I would have to design my own unit to do such a thing!
Most of what you stated is minor stuff, and for the UI professional, wow.
Just wanted to post a thanks to the OP (and others who have posted their honest feedback and views), saved me paying for another beta game and end up waiting on patches etc Been burned to many times by paying to beta test - let the rabid fanboys do that, they seem to love it anwyay.
Will check back in a few weeks and see if anything improves.
Cheers
I guess my biggest complaint is that if you're going to roll out a SP campaign, and a big story behind it, and everything else, it should be a good introduction to the game. The SP campaign is pretty rough in some places. My first NPC just sort of vanished from my army, but I still get messages from him now and then about...stuff. Instead of explaining the mechanics or even trying to guide you on your first attempts, the game just kind of throws itself at you. Again, if there was no SP campaign and just a really excellent sand box, I'd expect that. But it's clear the SP campaign needs more than a few good passes for polish and just how it's presented.
For example I'm 2 hours in, just building my second city, have outfitted a whole troop of guys with leather armor and swords, and they're 10x the combat rating of all the monsters set along the campaign route. That's off, especially considering we're actually supposed to care about the campaign.
Also the combat and unit sfx are basic and in many cases, terrible. Can my guys just say "Sir?" instead of four variations of "Mmmm?" "Mmmmm" and that god awful "mmmmmmhhhhhmmmmmm." I love the musical score, and most of the other sound effects are ok. But some of the ones you hear the most still seem like place holders. At least I hope they are.
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