Disclaimer: I'm writing this post as neutral as I know how. It's not a disrespect of the developers - merely a list of issues (both large and small) based on my short time with the game so far. I have ONLY played through a portion of the campaign so far - haven't even looked at the "actual" game. These are legitimate concerns / issues with the game (from my POV) - I'm not sitting up at 3:00am for the fun of it. If you don't agree with something I've said: that is your prerogative; don't start attacking me because Stardock is your bestest of buddies.
How about we start at campaign?
CAMPAIGN MAP PRESENTATION:
The campaign was designed to get players into the game and familiar with the core mechanics and basic gameplay. So far it has failed in both respects. The opening cutscene was fine, not amazing or anything but it did its job well enough. The problems arise as soon as the player is given control over his character:
TACTICAL MAP PRESENTATION:
The tactical maps, and how to even GET to a battle on a tactical map are not explained in any way:
If I was new to the TBS genre I WOULD BE COMPLETELY lost. There is a very good chance I would abandon the game out of pure frustration / confusion. Even I was lost at times - not about the game play but what the actual campaign wanted from me. A tutorial itself should never confuse the player because then they're confused on two fronts: how the game works, and how to progress the tutorial.
I think that is enough talk about the campaign presentation. Again my experience has only been with the campaign, but now I will talk strictly about the game mechanics, features, etc.
TACTICAL MAPS:
There are a large number of issues with the tactical maps:
STRATEGIC MAP:
The strategic maps are probably the most polished aspect of the entire game:
PRODUCTION VALUES:
I guess a large portion of the budget when into developing the platform / (pretty) textures, models and modding tools (and yes, the core tech):
PERFORMANCE & BUGS:
EQUIPMENT BALANCE:
MODDING:
Well, it's not 4:14 am. You'll notice that large aspects of the game have been left out (research, diplomacy, etc) - like I said, I've only been playing the campaign. The game has great promise and I wish it to succeed in all possible ways (obviously since I paid for it). I wish the developers the best of luck and look forward to what they come up with. Hopefully my post hasn't been too ranty of everyone's taste and will be of some help.
Um, to the thread starter... I'm not trying to say im smarter than you or anything, but I had never played the betas, I just started up a non-campaign large map and dove in. Within 5min I was as comfortable as in Civ4 or Galciv2 or any other game.
This game was never meant for soccer moms who doesnt even know what a 4x game is, and why would they need to explain where the end turn button is? There is only 1 button in the lower right corner of the screen, with a green icon on it, which says End Turn while hovering over it..Anyone who's not intelligent enough to read tooltips is in bad luck regarding ANY modern games tbh...
I tried reading your entire post but halfway down it was clear that most of it was just "didnt explain, didnt explain, didnt explain".I can only assume you're new to games. Sucks ;(
While I understand that Stardock will continue to develop the game, and I am mightily pleased with it at this point, I do agree with the OP. I imagine that the devs will continue to listen to feedback, and add things as necessary.
Even having been playing since beta 2, it took me a few moments of searching the new UI to figure out how to cast spells, or even equip gear. Some kind of tutorial needs to be added. It might even come from a modder, and be made canon. Simply a short 'campaign', with limited goals: An introduction to the character & interface, overland movement & interactions, city building & ui, tactical combat. It doesn't need much, just the basics for anyone truly new to the game.
I also agree with some quick way of identifying unmoved units in tactical combat, whether it's an animation, or simply a shaded base. The only way to tell if a unit has moved already is by selecting it, and seeing that the grid color is gray.
I think I agree with most of what is being said here. I've already requested a refund for this game. I'll probably check back in a while once it's completed or has a more complete experience. I've played Civ, Gal Civ, Moo and the original. I just don't feel much value in this game yet, but I look forward to seeing what it might become.
I hope you lose the ability to play after you get the refund.
People complain how modern games are dumbed down and when someone puts out a game that has some complexity to you get people wanting to be hand held.
The game's not hard to play. You couldn't figure out how to equip your guy or cast spells? There's two buttons on your sovereign. Only two. One button equips him. The other casts spells. Did you try mousing over them? There are tool tips everywhere.
I enjoy the game so far but I definitely had trouble trying to figure out what was going on... Starting to get it with some trial and error.( I have played both the games you mentioned and many more.....4x) The stacked units thing especially ..Until I read this thread I thought it was just a shortcut to build more individual units!!
I do have two things that I would like to see in the game however...(besides those already listed)
1. It would be nice to have a lists of quests that were given and completed. An icon could be placed up in the right hand corner with the other ones to access it.
2. I would like a way to designate a party as such... That way I don't keep accidentally separating my heroes/units from it constantly when looking at them. This also brings up another point of having to individually click the units I would like to exit the city... If units were already together they should be able to be selected within the city by just clicking on the leader of the party.
Also it would be nice to have a dialogue come up when units meet on the map to ask whether you want them to actually join each other.
I could have doven into a non-campaign map as well. Like I said originally: my only confusion came from trying to find / figure out things the campaign wanted me to do.
You're statement about Elemental only being for the hardcore is ridiculous. People have to be introduced to the genre somewhere. Did you pop out of your mothers womb ready to play turn-based 4X games? I didn't think so. Do you want the market for 4X games to become stagnant, only decreasing as the players get older and die off?
I'm not new to the game or the genre - I was writing the "doesn't explain" portion from the perspective of someone was however.
Seriously how can you come up with ALL of these conclusions if you have not even played the game? You even say clear as day you have not even played the actual game and only a SHORT time with the campaign. I don't think thats fair to the developers since it is nearly impossible to state all of this already about the game. Maybe, just maybe you should play it a bit more before coming to all of these conclusions.
Uh oh. Someone was dropped on their head one too many times as a child.
I'm sorry, I guess I didn't pay attention when they said that there two games: the campaign I played and an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT game using different graphics, sounds, tactical battles, mechanics and features for those who are playing on the random maps. Thanks for clearing everything up!
That what he has noticed so far. I have only played a couple of hours which were enjoyable. i worked out most of it by watching clips posted by Frogboy and staff. Will play again tonight with likely a more critical eye. That said most games these days need patches. Look at Fallout or Oblivion - massive games with documented bugs and the alrge majorty fixed by modders rahter than staff and they are really well funded. That said this is the only company I kno of that the ceo of the company is so involved in the forums of his game which is a very good sign for continuing development.
I agree with the OP on many of his observations if some of these things are not added to the main patch release/0day. I have not played 1.0 yet, but after playing a few beta versions I had hoped that the final release would not be as cumbersome to jump into.
I'm sure that Stardock will step up and fix these issues and the memory/ctd issues that still perssist. We will just have to wait it out like we did with Demigod.
Oops wrong thread.
This is incorrect. Swords increase training time by one turn for a single unit, bows I believe are three more turns. The research dialog even alludes to this. The effect is different when producing groups than single units, though. Strangely I think that the pioneer's pack has the 5 extra turns listed under its cost while bows and swords do not.
I guess this is pretty much my position as well.
I was getting scared when I was hearing about how bad the UI is an what not, but...I don't have any problems getting around it. *shrug* I don't mind the unit acknowledgment blandness - they almost fade into the background for me after hearing them for the 1000th time anyway (I couldn't tell you any of SC2's unit responses).
I haven't gotten any crashes or whatnot and the performance is fast and I'm on a single core computer (AMD 3800+) with probably the minimum of RAM these days (2 GB).
So I guess, so far I'm not seeing any issues. I wouldn't mind if the UI got better or what not (not going to say it's "perfect" if there's any such thing as "perfect") but I'm just glad I'm not tearing my hair out like others are. I really was getting scared a bit.
And, of course, I'm all for making it mod-able/customizable. I'm all for modding where ever it can be applied and I'm sure there's some very creative folks out there that can do wonders.
Some of the graphical complaints I agree with - the archer thing always gets me. I can understand the death sounds (like unit responses) but those too tend become less noticeable for me after a while (in fact, didn't even think of it until I saw it mentioned).
Ok thanks for correcting that.
Great feedback. That may sound harsh, but most of the issues listed here (except for the SP campaign obviously) have been brought up before. Elemental still has a long way to go to become a classic.
Yes, yes, yes and yes.
More help is needed - either a manual or tutorial doesn't matter to me. I missed the end turn button initially - it would be useful if it changed colour or sparkled once all the units had moved. Casting spells still escapes me - I couldn't work out how to summon a familiar or cast flatten land.
The small spider is a different type and has a higher attack strength - not a particularly logical example for the walkthrough - could be covered by some verbal clue (The large spiders seem slow, but the smaller ones are fast and deadly) and then pointing to the attack strength on the mouseover.
Don't worry I know that once you have worked with something for so long thins are so natural you forget that you have to explain them to new people. (That said, lets get the documentation done!)
how does this work then if you change a unit's equipment later?
I agree with many points here.
I think that the game is missing a lot of polish and balancing.
It is fun, but it could have been much better i think.
I for one think that tactical battles, magic, unit and equipment balancing just isnt there.
Some examples:
- speedy weapons trade attack for combat speed. Thats nice for heroes, but bad for Units. Since damage stacks for each soldier it is always better to have more attack and kill the enemy before he retaliates. Against big monsters it is even more crucial, because your unit most likely wont get a second attack. Also you need the attack stat high to even hit them.
- magic should not miss. I can shoot my bow all day long, missing once doesnt hurt me much. But wasting half my mana on a level 1 spell against a spider and having 6 misses in a row isnt fun. Because it takes strategic TURNS to recover from a miss. Even worse are high level spells. Using a spell that has a damage rating of 40 against a levle one spider and then dealing 1 damage is ... &%/§$$%. Higher spells should increase min dmg and max dmg. Sometimes you just want to make sure.
Examples:
Flame Dart: min dmg = 1; max dmg = INT; Mana 2
Fireball: min dmg = INT/3; max dmg = INT*1.2; Mana 3
Flame Burst: min dmg = INT/2; max dmg = INT*1.4; Mana 4
- Why cant i position my units at start of battle ... am i always surprised?
- Somehow the whole battle UI behaves like an artefact from the continuous turn times.
- Someone explain how equipment is priced please (shop and unit design). It seems totaly random. What are they balamced around? Game stats, material used, time needed to create?
Anyway, the game is fun. And i have faith in Stardock to make it even more fun.
PS: Also, please include true random maps.
You cast spells on the strategic map by clicking the book icon next to the mana bar in the bottom right when you've got the caster selected.
If im not mistaken intelligence influences wether you hit or not with magic.
My Sovereign was level 2 with INT 17. I should not miss 6 times against a single level 1 spider.
I have the feeling that melee attacks miss much less often.
I'd like to throw my two cents into the equation.
I think the exaggeration of asking for a tutorial to turn on a toaster is GREAT, but utterly necessary: NO game should assume prior knowledge. It doesn't have to be as easy as using a toaster oven, but it should be at least moderately intuitive.
Maybe I'm from Uganda or some location severely suffering from a severe toaster shortage. Maybe I've never seen a toaster before.
Or maybe I play shooters and this "turn" thing you speak of is Greek to me.
Really though, I don't want to help flame, but I do wish my fifty bucks went towards a little more shine.
TheProgress, this is a great thread don't let the fanboys get you down.
This feedback thread really hits some of the most prominent issues I have with Elemental. It's excellent that Stardock will keep patching this game and a year from now we probably couldn't recognize this current version as the same game we have then, but I honestly do not think that it is in any way fair or wise to release a game this bugged and this unpolished to the market.
I can't for the life of me understand why, when Frogboy keeps saying that Stardock being privately held and its own publisher that they aren't pushed around by some quarterly reports, they insist on rushing a game out like this. Why on earth wouldn't they rather give this game 6 more months before official release and concurrently give their developers a bit more free time.
The beta process Elemental had was exceptional, but it was cut way short. This game still feels like a beta (the beta we had felt like an alpha). Other AAA PC games have bugs upon release as well, but pretty much all of them are much, much more polished upon release. When people who have been in the beta and people who are hardcore enough to hang on the forums don't get how the game works, it's clearly extremely unintuitive. I hate to disagree with Brad, and I don't think the reviewers are going to be that gentle with this game in its current state.
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