I actually noticed this during beta 4, but it was the first time I noticed buildings, on my new laptop, so I thought they just needed some optimizing, which would be done for the release.
I get a constant max framerate (limited to 90 in my case, for example) over all the map, on a bare ground, units for example are ok. But as soon as a small 3D object enters the field, it decreases. A tree in the corner? 45 fps. A city (not a big one, just the first settlement) visible? 15 fps.
I tried to change the various settings, deactivated soft lighting, AA, shadows, resolution, it's still doing the same. It works good on the cloth map, without a problem, though, as there are no such elements.
Now I would understand such thing on my older laptop, but I'm surprised to see this on the new one. Specs:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU Q 720 @ 1.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~1.6GHzMemory: 8192MB RAMVideo Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
So I'm guessing there is somehow a problem with drivers (though latest ones from ATI), or at least some incompatibility somewhere. Because the objects are nice, the cell shading effect too, but it's hardly something to bring this computer to its knees.
ps: I understand that a game like this doesn't need to run at 90fps. But 15-20 is actually unpleasant on the long term.
Edit: To make a complete (more or less) analysis, I tried at a high and low configuration, similar effects:
LOW Settings:
- Video Configuration
- Over a city: 20 fps
- Without objects: 138 fps
HIGH Settings:
- Over a city: 18 fps
- Without objects: 80 fps
So it doesn't seem to be related to the video settings. I also tried windowed, same.
It is really related to these 3D objects, as shown by these two other screenshots:
- Full zoom, empty ground: 99 fps
- Same place, just a bit higher to have one tree in the view: 29 fps
So far, the only thing which seems to improve performance is to force the game to run only on one core (physical one, so two virtual cores on Core i3/5/7), as suggested by thebigJ_A in this answer.
It should be the other way around, clearly, so maybe it's giving a hint on where the problem could be. Note that this doesn't solve the performance problem, there is still a big decrease on framerate when passing on cities, but less than when the game is authorized to run on all cores. I noticed however that doing this since the 1.05 version makes the sound choppy, probably because it was expecting to run on a different core to begin with.
I figured it out. Its not using your video card at all. All of the graphics are being rendered by your cpu. I ran the game with msi afterburner displaying all of the GPU info, like core voltage, temperature and gpu ultilization. No change from browsing here. Normally there should be a huge spike in all of theses. Nothing. This is a major problem. Its running in "software" mode and not "hardware" if anybody remembers older games. Thats the problem. We need to figure out a way for it to use it.
I read your other response where it appears that for some reason it's not using your GPU. The question is: Why?
There's different OSes listed here and different video cards. There has to be something in common.
It's not the resolution.
I ran it at 1280x1024, got the same problem at 1024x768...
I think the above poster had a good idea.... the graphics card is not being used correctly... Maybe it's a driver issue I don't know but EVERY other game runs fine with great performance on my system.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9170386/debug.err
Also I checked, not using my video card... I looked through this thread and almost all have intel processors... maybe that's the link?
1920 x 1200 is a default for desktops this days.
It's definitely using the GPU in most cases (certainly here):
Yea, your machine is a beast. It should be fine.
I DEMO the game to the press on a 3 year old Thinkpad without problems.
I updated my Nvidia gpu drivers less than 24hrs ago, the scale and nature of the problem was the same with both the old and new drivers. I fiddled with the resolution as the poster above (Delijoe79) in addition to turning of shadows, ground lod, AA, to no avail. I didn't try going down to 800x600 but I really shouldn't have to. It boggles the mind.
I tested it, and the same result here: Elemental isn't using my GPU, so my poor CPU keeps having too much to do I've also got Intel CPU and Ati Radeon HD 5770 with the newest (10.7) drivers (on WinXP 32bit). Very strange, maybe it's the drivers indeed? But strange that the problems happen to Nvidia users also...
Not using the GPU explains why changing graphic settings has no effect, right?
Then really you shouldn't be even asking us to lower our resolution in the first place. As others said, doing that doesn't work anyway.
I also got an Intel Processor btw.
Well my machine is not a beast... but it should run elemental no problem... here's my screenshot using afterburner... only 25% utilization... Maybe a graphics driver issue or something?
I have the latest drivers from NVIDIA, btw...
Yea, I don't see a pattern. There's a couple XP users, a couple Win 7 users, some ATI, some nVidia.
Any ideas?
Yeah, exactly the same performance for me on both 1920x1020 and 1024x768 resolutions. 5-10 fps No idea what could be causing this, is there anything I can post here to help, like the debug file?
One user mentioned we're all using Intel CPUs.
@Below: Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
It seems most people are using Intel. Some also mentioned that going only on one core helps. Is there a trend there? Are all people reporting this with an Intel? Which model? How many cores?
Well I've got Core 2 Duo 6400. Setting Elemental to use single core has no effect for me.
Could it be an ATI-only issue?
Radeon HD 4800 here, same problem. Very choppy frame rate when I look at a city, otherwise bearable.
Switching to single core affinity didn't help.
[EDIT] Apologies, I've noticed that people with a Geforce GPU have also posted about the same problem.
I've got an Nvidia and others have reported the same with Nvidia cards.
If it's of any help, I have the same problem on my netbook - an Asus 1201N EEE PC (1.6ghz dual core atom, Nvidia Ion Geforce 9400M, 2GB DDR). Of course, I never expected the game to run on anything but cloth on that machine. But the symptoms are exactly the same.
I'm glad it's being looked at. But Frogboy, it's your day off. You've probably been under enough stress as it is. Leave the forums for a day and relax. Same goes for other developers.
Almost certainly.
Maybe there is a program you guys are running that you have in common. Anyone know of a handy progrma for listing running processes?
Tried setting the affinity to a single core and also giving elemental high priority. There may have been an improvement but it's hard to say. If there was it was minuscule.
^^^
I had Spybot S&D in my system tray along with Daemon Tools, Winamp Agent and, of course, Impulse. I exited the Spybot for my newer tests with no noticeable results. A Firefox window was also open I guess.
A tutorial:
http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-generate-text-file-list-of-running-processes-in-windows/
Imagenaam Proces-i Sessienaam Sessienr. Geheugengebr========================= ======== ================ =========== ============System Idle Process 0 Services 0 24 kBSystem 4 Services 0 308 kBsmss.exe 364 Services 0 1.112 kBcsrss.exe 500 Services 0 6.728 kBwininit.exe 572 Services 0 4.320 kBcsrss.exe 580 Console 1 6.280 kBservices.exe 628 Services 0 11.912 kBlsass.exe 644 Services 0 13.224 kBlsm.exe 652 Services 0 4.264 kBwinlogon.exe 740 Console 1 7.000 kBsvchost.exe 804 Services 0 9.372 kBsvchost.exe 904 Services 0 7.888 kBatiesrxx.exe 952 Services 0 4.104 kBsvchost.exe 444 Services 0 22.992 kBsvchost.exe 512 Services 0 112.992 kBsvchost.exe 712 Services 0 38.068 kBsvchost.exe 1084 Services 0 16.776 kBatieclxx.exe 1124 Console 1 5.872 kBsvchost.exe 1220 Services 0 15.996 kBspoolsv.exe 1440 Services 0 13.712 kBtaskhost.exe 1532 Console 1 9.664 kBdwm.exe 1632 Console 1 36.168 kBexplorer.exe 1672 Console 1 82.364 kBsvchost.exe 1784 Services 0 19.668 kBAppleMobileDeviceService. 1936 Services 0 4.364 kBHP1006MC.EXE 1952 Services 0 4.476 kBmDNSResponder.exe 1036 Services 0 5.464 kBsvchost.exe 1256 Services 0 15.268 kBo2flash.exe 1404 Services 0 3.352 kBPDAgent.exe 1932 Services 0 9.648 kBPnkBstrA.exe 2056 Services 0 4.032 kBPnkBstrB.exe 2080 Services 0 4.232 kBsvchost.exe 2104 Services 0 5.260 kBTODDSrv.exe 2132 Services 0 4.772 kBTosCoSrv.exe 2160 Services 0 4.672 kBWLIDSVC.EXE 2304 Services 0 12.892 kBXAudio64.exe 2328 Services 0 3.140 kBWLIDSVCM.EXE 2388 Services 0 3.220 kBsvchost.exe 2748 Services 0 5.968 kBWUDFHost.exe 2808 Services 0 5.808 kBPDAgentS1.exe 1496 Console 1 4.392 kBcAudioFilterAgent64.exe 2300 Console 1 6.108 kBgoogletalk.exe 1764 Console 1 17.108 kBRainlendar2.exe 2880 Console 1 14.984 kBDTLite.exe 2832 Console 1 11.164 kBsidebar.exe 2992 Console 1 30.148 kBjusched.exe 3132 Console 1 4.268 kBMOM.exe 3148 Console 1 7.348 kBSearchIndexer.exe 3636 Services 0 24.748 kBtaskeng.exe 3672 Console 1 5.952 kBNDSTray.exe 3704 Console 1 1.184 kBwmpnetwk.exe 4000 Services 0 12.788 kBCCC.exe 4092 Console 1 20.356 kBCFSwMgr.exe 3332 Console 1 528 kBsvchost.exe 4052 Services 0 14.416 kBdllhost.exe 4400 Services 0 6.804 kBCFIWmxSvcs64.exe 5112 Services 0 3.356 kBCFProcSRVC.exe 496 Services 0 7.040 kBCFSvcs.exe 248 Services 0 1.140 kBvlc.exe 3816 Console 1 76.988 kBaudiodg.exe 4448 Services 0 20.356 kBImpulse.exe 2952 Console 1 19.356 kBImpulseNow.exe 4680 Console 1 14.952 kBfirefox.exe 3856 Console 1 163.272 kBcmd.exe 3176 Console 1 2.860 kBconhost.exe 3092 Console 1 5.500 kBWmiPrvSE.exe 4376 Services 0 6.472 kBtasklist.exe 4772 Console 1 5.332 kB
Hmm, didn't think about that. I know for a fact that all of us are running Impulse...
I kid, I kid
I'll take a look when I go home. You can get a list with pstools usually.
Looking at the list that Praetoriani reported, I don't seem to have almost anything in common...
Here's a video capture of my machine at the office from a few minutes ago:
http://www.screencast.com/t/ZDJmYTdlYjM
~2500x1600
Let's see what's running in common on those systems.
I'll go to MSConfig and prevent any program from starting on my PC. Hold on.
Edit: Disabled every program that would normally boot in MSconfig, to no avail. This must be much more frustrating to the developers than to us. I'm almost considering buying a new computer seeing as I want to enjoy Elemental so badly. Considering Elemental itself was only a tight fit in my student loan budget, that's out of the question.
at this point im actually considering doin a complete system wipe to see if a fresh install will fix the problem there has to be something causing the issues, i couldnt even start the game initially without uninstalling ATI Tray Tools.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
