There’s been a lot of discussion on these kinds of topics on recent games and I thought I’d give you our perspective on it.
No Copy Protection
Elemental, out of the box, like all of Stardock’s other games, has no copy protection whatsoever. However, you obviously need Internet access to get updates. But then, why should this be necessary?
Because Elemental, unlike our previous games, has really been designed to be a game that people can play for decades, this is something that has concerned us. Because we want to encourage people to have the latest version but at the same time, we are aware that some people are worried that 10 years from now, they won’t be able to get the “better” version.
So here is what we’re going to start doing on our developed titles: We’re going to start making archival DVD versions of the game that can be sent to customers. We already do this with Object Desktop (our most popular non-game product). This archival version would have no copy protection whatsoever. It would just be a DVD you can put into your machine.
So starting in October, what we will do is make archival DVD editions of our games starting with Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition and Elemental. Roughly every year or so, if there have been updates, we’ll create a new archival version of the game that people can have sent to them (it’ll just be a DVD).
LAN Games
There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends. Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle.
#1 You’ll need to install Impulse on the machines that will be playing the game. But that’s all. Just install and go to step 2.
#2 Go to http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com which is the web interface to Impulse. From here, you would download the web package of Elemental. As long as Impulse is installed on the machine, you can install the game.
#3 When you install, type in your serial #. If it’s on a LAN, just use your single DVD key, Impulse::Reactor’s GOO uses smart activation (i.e. it doesn’t have a “activation limit” type system) so you can just install it on the various machines on your LAN.
#4 When your friends come over to play, they will need, once in the game, to logon with their own accounts (so they or someone will have to provide them with a serial # to attach to their account but they can use it at your LAN in game). This is because on day 0, the data from the game is handled by our servers (this way, when we update the game data for balancing players don’t have to update their game which would be a real hassle for LAN players). Eventually we plan to release custom servers so that players can make their own stuff but we won’t have that ready at release.
I have read this thread from the beginning and i had this reply going around in my head for a while i just forgot to post it. I absolutely understand stardocks stance in this matter and i even encourage it. Personally i dont have any problems with multiplayer going over the internet. I do think one thing is wrong though.
LAN means local area network and if a game has lan support it should not require internet servers to play on a LAN. If it would just check if the game is legal it might still be considered LAN gaming, but right now it will be connecting to a stardock server and send/receive game data from it. I engineer networks and i cannot think of any situation where sending packets to the internet is considered just LAN communication. You guys consider internet multiplayer as LAN multiplayer wich it isnt. Just call it multiplayer and tell people that its requires internet for now and in the future you can play on a LAN without requiring internet access. Again i dont have any problems with connecting to the internet, I just got problems with calling it LAN multiplayer.
And to all the people that complain about the fact that the game needs internet to play multiplayer. In the current Information Era that we live in, it is not unreasonable to expect people to connect to the internet to play a game in multiplayer.
Well said. I have games that old as well as I've been a gamer for over 20 years now. I too am glad Stardock is doing this as well. These spoiled kids of today don"t know what it's like to be trapped out in the boondocks with no iternet and having to use a "free AoL" disk to get online with dial up because the company won't run cable in their area. Hell, there was a time way back when I had to use a 100ft phone cord and run it from the kitchen out the side door of the house and back around to my bedroom and through the window.
I hope the archival DVD news gets a lot of mainstream attention once it is out.
Too few publishers remove the DRM from their old games via patches, but this has to be the perfect solution.
Are you able to play the game after you have uninstalled Impulse?
Yes, Impulse is only required for updates. The game itself never checks for Impulse to startup.
Wizard, Impulse is not like Steam ect. It's actually quite "unintrusive". And there will be a lot of constant patches/updates for Elemental at first, so you may not want to intall; uninstall; install; uninstall, over and over (at first).
you can turn on Impulse whenever you want to check for updates, and leave it off otherwise. That's what I do.
Most local area networks are built with relatively inexpensive hardware such as Ethernet cables, network adapters, and hubs. Wireless LAN and other more advanced LAN hardware options also exist.
Specialized operating system software may be used to configure a local area network. For example, most flavors of Microsoft Windows provide a software package called Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) that supports controlled access to LAN resources.
The term LAN party refers to a multiplayer gaming event where participants bring their own computers and build a temporary LAN.
The most common type of local area network is an Ethernet LAN. The smallest home LAN can have exactly two computers; a large LAN can accommodate many thousands of computers. Many LANs are divided into logical groups called subnets. An Internet Protocol (IP) "Class A" LAN can in theory accommodate more than 16 million devices organized into subnets.
Thank you very much for your quick replies.
A computer(s) in a LAN having an internet connection is merely incidental. It has nothing to do with being a requirement to form a LAN and play games on a LAN.
Anyway, I think the days of LAN (as we knew it) and any kind of spawn copies etc etc are over. Sad but true.
Italic text is quotes by Frogboy
This is unequaled. This is the only board on the internet (that I've seen) were people are so incredibly against anything DRM, copyprotection etc.
Makes me think you live in the third world where there isn't any internetz
I may damn myself on this board by saying this, but I'm VERY happy that StarCraft II sold huge numbers and that Steam is a success which proves that developers are allowed to protect their games from parasites who don't pay!
Uh-huh. Just like it's COMPLETELY unacceptable to buy a CD and listen to it with friends, or buy a film on DVD and watch it together. CLEARLY everyone should buy their own copy of the Settlers of Catan before they come over to play it. They're all copyright infringement!!oneone Games are not a special kind of media and they should not have a special kind of rules. I am not trying to offend anyone, but I think this should be very much included as a gamer's right. I love buying good games from good studios and make sure they continue to make greatness, but I lose interest very quickly if I can't sit down with a bunch of friends and have a blast. And no matter what you say, they are not as interested in the game and probably wouldn't ever play it by themselves. I'm not going to tell 7 other people to spend quite a bit of money on something they're only going to play at my house. Hell, they'd tell me I was insane and we'd go back to playing some other game (like Sins) which we could play.
1. They are a special kind. Movies are different in that 20 guys can watch a movie at your place but movies are sold so may times (cinema, Special Editions Blu-Ray, DVD, rent so it somehow makes up for it.
Back in the NES/SNES/PS days I couldn't play with 7 friends. 2 or 3 with splitscreen but that was it.
2. So you're not going to suggest to your friends to buy a game you'll play only at your house but you seemed to have told them to get Sins (which you also only play at your house?). Because of lack of unique serials..?
And now it's time for education
Copyprotection: Measures to prevent a disc to be COPIED! This got nothing to do with activation, internet, unique accounts or anything like that!
Actication, accounts and unique serials fall under D-R-M!
Now I'm gonna get some welldeserved sleep so I'm rested enough to face the shitstorm that awaits me tomorrow.
Digital Rights Management is not the same as "copy protection". Activations, install limits, constant online, multiplayer login servers are all versions of DRM that arent necessarily directly linked to discs. Hell even serial keys are DRM, just one that was accepted rather early on in the game.
1. ICS last I checked allowed a PC to share it's internet connection with other Windows PC's on the LAN, not "supports controlled access to LAN resources". Maybe that's what that means, seems like a very strange way to say it though.
2. (Just a nitpik) If you are using a class A IP range (such as the private class A range 10.0.0.0) there is nothing stating you have to "organize it into subnets". You can use the /8 subnet mask and have 16 million hosts on one subnet as you can organize it into many subnets. Biggest LAN party evar! Oh wait, that's the internet.
Here's my problem. I have 3 computers, and I've installed Stardock games on all of them. Sometimes I like to play a Stardock LAN game on them with friends/family, such as Sins of a Solar Empire or Demigod. I paid the $80 up front for the limited edition expecting to be able to do that, as figured it was worth it. Now it appears if my brother wants to play a game with me on launch day, I'll have to pay another $50 for a whole new serial? Completely different than Sins or Demigod. I'm almost wishing I hadn't pre-ordered.
The game software requires a server across the internet means the multiplayer piece a WAN only software. If Elemental is going to need an umbilical cord into Impulse then two and possibly three *extra* variables can crash the game: The Stardock Servers hosting Impulse, The ISP of the gamer and depending on Stardocks IT infrastructure possibly the ISP of Stardock. I realize Stardock is blinded with the belief the internet is 99.999% stable across all the countries in world, but you're wrong.
Do you have any clue how many gamers have unstable/unreliable internet connections!! I can only assume the Stardock crew comes from a bunch of spoiled rich boys OR upper management at Stardock is pushing their muscle around. It's also possible Brad has hired a bunch of "YES" men who never challenge his ideas/designs. WHY even include the internet variable into the gaming equation when any extra variables make the game more vunerable to crashing??!?! OH wait... that's right it's about Stardock placing its security umbilical cord into all LAN games at the cost of customer satisfaction, game performance and game stability.
First Stardock is making it more complex on purpose because obviously multiplayer in a LAN party without internet is easier to design than multiplayer in a LAN party with internet. So don't be pushing any limited manpower BS response.
While I agree that the LAN support could be better, I don't understand all of these people with their unstable internet connects. I'm sorry, are we living in 1995?
The only place I can imagine having a shaky connection would be some rural area - no city or suburban home's internet connection is going to be regularly dropping out unless there is a power failure (or if the ISP is shoddy).
I agree and also work as a Technical Consultant supporting some of the largest blue stock companies across the globe. Those Stardock boys need some basic computer classes.
Actually it's a problem with me for a few reasons:
1) The game is now more unstable because it requires internet and the internet variable can stop/crash the game.
2) My brother lives in an area where the internet is extremely unstable, but it's where we LAN game because it's a central location. I'm just another one of those people not worthy enough in the eyes of Stardock.
3) The game is now more unstable because it requires the Impulse servers and if those servers are having maintenace or problems then it's another variable which can stop/crash the game.
I won't give up on the game.... there's still hope for improving bad design. It might mean waiting for an expansion, but it can be worthwhile.
once the custom servers come out it won't be such a big deal. the question is only "when". Years from now? Problem. First or second patch? not such a big deal.
Why were you expecting that.
Three different games, by three different developers.
I dont understand the reasoning behind that.
This article on GameShark http://www.gameshark.com/features/741/p_20/Elemental-War-of-Magic-Q&A-with-Brad-Wardell.htm has some insights how multiplayer is supposed to work:
Yeah.. I’m not a good advocate for multiplayer.. I love multiplayer in, say, StarCraft II, but in turn-based strategy games… basically we put it in because some people like it a lot. Some people imagine that multiplayer should be like the single-player game with humans in it, but our play-testing on it found that that isn't fun at all. So what we've been doing with the multiplayer is really streamlining it so that players get a different technology tree that focuses on the parts that are the most fun in multiplayer. It kind of moves the game along a little better. We do have some really interesting technologies Elemental is making use from Impulse. We have the cloud saving technology in so when you get a game going with friends and someone has to leave, they can come back later and continue where they left off. The server actually has your saved game so that you don't have to worry about whose machine has stored it.
Yeah.. I’m not a good advocate for multiplayer.. I love multiplayer in, say, StarCraft II, but in turn-based strategy games… basically we put it in because some people like it a lot. Some people imagine that multiplayer should be like the single-player game with humans in it, but our play-testing on it found that that isn't fun at all. So what we've been doing with the multiplayer is really streamlining it so that players get a different technology tree that focuses on the parts that are the most fun in multiplayer. It kind of moves the game along a little better.
This notably explains why some data must be downloaded from the server, as the technology trees in MP and SP aren't the same.
And clearly, they are first using Elemental as a tool to demonstrate the capability of the Impulse::reactor SDK.
They have choosen a client/server approach to avoid some bad experience from the Demigod launch as the game was peer to peer. I hope they won't experience MP problems on their servers for not having provided custom server support ...
There are several games out there that separate MP from SP and very few force cloud computing. This is a choice they made that was not necessary. It doesn't explain anything other than verify they made a choice.
Implying a client server approach is the only way to avoid another bad experience is silly. I've been playing games for decades now. I have never seen a game launch as badly as Demigod did, outside of MMO server issues. It had nothing to do with not using a client/server approach. There are plenty of games that do not use a client/server approach and are actually playable on day one. If they had a knee jerk reaction because they got hammered by Demigod's reception, rightfully so, that was hardly the only approach they could have taken.
NTjedi go back to your AOW forums where your screams are heard. lol Go beg for AOW III like you always do. hahahahaha You and Swolte and the rest of the gang over there aren't going to ruin this one like you did AOW:SM.
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