There’s been a lot of discussion on these kinds of topics on recent games and I thought I’d give you our perspective on it.
No Copy Protection
Elemental, out of the box, like all of Stardock’s other games, has no copy protection whatsoever. However, you obviously need Internet access to get updates. But then, why should this be necessary?
Because Elemental, unlike our previous games, has really been designed to be a game that people can play for decades, this is something that has concerned us. Because we want to encourage people to have the latest version but at the same time, we are aware that some people are worried that 10 years from now, they won’t be able to get the “better” version.
So here is what we’re going to start doing on our developed titles: We’re going to start making archival DVD versions of the game that can be sent to customers. We already do this with Object Desktop (our most popular non-game product). This archival version would have no copy protection whatsoever. It would just be a DVD you can put into your machine.
So starting in October, what we will do is make archival DVD editions of our games starting with Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition and Elemental. Roughly every year or so, if there have been updates, we’ll create a new archival version of the game that people can have sent to them (it’ll just be a DVD).
LAN Games
There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends. Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle.
#1 You’ll need to install Impulse on the machines that will be playing the game. But that’s all. Just install and go to step 2.
#2 Go to http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com which is the web interface to Impulse. From here, you would download the web package of Elemental. As long as Impulse is installed on the machine, you can install the game.
#3 When you install, type in your serial #. If it’s on a LAN, just use your single DVD key, Impulse::Reactor’s GOO uses smart activation (i.e. it doesn’t have a “activation limit” type system) so you can just install it on the various machines on your LAN.
#4 When your friends come over to play, they will need, once in the game, to logon with their own accounts (so they or someone will have to provide them with a serial # to attach to their account but they can use it at your LAN in game). This is because on day 0, the data from the game is handled by our servers (this way, when we update the game data for balancing players don’t have to update their game which would be a real hassle for LAN players). Eventually we plan to release custom servers so that players can make their own stuff but we won’t have that ready at release.
Oh, the melodrama! You guys should star on a soap opera.
"Oh, the melodrama! You guys should star on a soap opera."
Do you mean this isn't a Soap Opera? Damn it all. It was getting a bit repetitive but that always happens in these types of shows.
Some one got jilted, they take out the frustrations, weep all over their friends shoulders cause they let them down.
The only thing they never do is let that Bone go...
Gaming is so cruel, I wonder why anyone even bothers with it. Especially Beta's.
This is the reason developers don't talk to consumers. Yes, some of these features were discussed, but I don't ever remember any promises for multiplayer. In fact, I remember specific and repeated statements that mutliplayer is in no way the focus for this game and if things needed to be cut it would be in multiplayer not single player.
I live with my friends (long story, not germane to discussion).
We own three copies of Civilization IV, one for each PC, and often play against each other on the LAN.
If we want to do the same for Elemental, we should do the same. I have a pre-order, so we will have at least one copy in house--mine.
In order for me to get them to play against me, I just need to convince them to get copies of their own, probably via letting them try it on my computer. The EULA suggests that I shouldn't install the game on their PCs (since I don't own those PCs) so they can try SP, although Stardock would never know that I did that.
But, to be asked to pony up money so we can all play multiplayer?? Yes, that's fair. And if I can't sell them on the SP--then well, they don't buy Elemental, and we won't play MP.
Thus, its in Stardock's best interest to make a strong SP game, first and foremost, to drive the multiplayer sales. I applaud Brad's efforts to do so.
Do people here really want to play multiplayer first and SP second or not at all???
Let me preface my comments by saying that I don't have a problem with how Stardock chooses to protect their game from pirates. I'm also well aware that if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
I think a lot of these discussions about LAN and copy protection end up being kind of odd because people don't come out and say what they really want, instead arguing for what they really want by odd proxy arguments that strain credulity. So, I'd like to come out and state my wishes, fully recognizing that no one is obligated to read them, more less fulfill them.
I wish I could play multiplayer Elemental with my kids in my own home on the computers physically located in my home over our LAN without having to buy two copies of the game. My kids don't play a lot of computer games, but when they do, we play together. I don't have to buy two copies of any of our Wii games for us to sit and play together. Likewise, some games I own such as Starcraft, HoMM 3, Sins of a Solar Empire don't enforce that I own two copies of the game to play with my daughter. If I play a physical game with my kids, such as Uno, Risk, Sorry, I only need one copy of the game.
I liked HoMM3's system for this the best, where you could play over a LAN with one physical disk, but there had to be one disk and the machines that didn't have the disk in the drive could only join multiplayer games, not start single player games. In my opinion, this worked like free advertising for the game because you could invite friends over to play, and then they would go buy copies of their own to play the single player at home.
I'd love to see a similar system that lets you play with friends who don't own the game at a single physical location, but doesn't let you give the game away to others for single-player purposes. The way you've set up the archival DVD system, the opposite is true, which seems to make less business sense to me. Again, it's Stardock's game and those who don't like the way they do things are free not to buy it.
You know, this is like the complete opposite argument that was made against sins....Back then everyone was raging because "oh no! there's no campaign mode! Stardock should focus more on the single player experience!" Well, guess what, now we have a campaign......
People like to complain for the sake of complaining. It is kind of sad, but hey, it is their loss. I'll be enjoying Elemental enough for several people!
@Spitz - Yeah, the system you describe is the one I would like, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure it must provide some advertising value, and it isn't giving away too much game. If someone is only going to play it on a LAN with friends, they probably weren't going to buy it anyway right?
Different set of people.
Ahh, no. I was thinking of a different Health Department. Like where poor people like me try to get financial aid. Sorry darlin, my confusion.
Huh? What did I do now? I didn't say any of those two things from your quote .
I've been following this thread since the beginning, and I just have to comment. I made this account to do so, since I've never posted here before, or purchased a Stardock game. Elemental will be my first, and nothing said in this thread has changed my mind on that.
The reason I've been keeping up with this thread so closely is that the complaints that appeared in the beginning are all close to my heart, and many good points were brought up. Sadly, it seems things have spiraled completely out of control. All parties are guilty here. Personal insults don't belong in a reasonable discussion. One side has accused the other of being pirates or supporting them. The other side pulled out the Gamer's Bill of Rights where it was completely unnecessary and unfair. Brad himself has dodged the questions.
In the end, I think there were a lot of problems with communication in this thread, and probably in the community in general. That's was likely our biggest enemy. Maybe certain comments or terms used were misleading. I wanted to contribute to the discussion, but I've had enough at this point. I don't like to see Brad upset, or fans of this game lowering themselves to the level of insulting each other, or dismissing legitimate issues as childish. I haven't been following Stardock for long, but I respect Brad, the company, and anyone who is a fan of theirs.
I may mourn the loss of certain features, but I don't intend to cancel my preorder. This game is still shaping up to be great, and I can't wait to get my hands on it. For the future, who knows what the possibilities are. Let's wait and find out.
...can't we all just be friends?
I have to agree with 1492 above. As a child of a broken home this brings back too many memories. I can't stand listening to people I love fight. I'm a unabashed Stardock apologist, but I understood the other side as well. I'll be under my bed sucking my thumb, when one of you is ready to bring me to get ice cream, you'll know where to find me.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543
I don't see an ice cream emoticon here, but you can have a snowman?
Well guys, this was a painful thread. No question. But I think it was good, in the long run. Everybody got their points heard and responded to. Nobody's going to walk away saying "we were ignored".
I've been popping up in other threads talking about other things, and I'd encourage everybody else to do the same. The single player side of the game is looking pretty good, and we got our MP issues out there. I don't think there's much left to discuss on this issue, so lets go focus on release instead.
Hopefully, this will be a moot point sometime in the near future when custom servers are available. I agree, can we go back to the "we all love each other" forums that we used to have?
Erm ... while I agree with most of your points (and they echo some points I made a few pages ago), I think that bringing out the Gamer's Bill of Rights is completed justified. Frogboy wrote it.
"In a future patch" is not what was said during the previous discussions on LAN support or at the time of my pre-order.
My god, stardock, you continue to amaze me with your outstanding PC support. I bought the digital/physical bundle of demigod and will be buying this game on day 1.
As someone who does not play games online and has a terrible internet connection the updated physical version is immensely appealing to me.
It is a shame that the same is not possible with demigod....unless I am mistaken and there is some way to install and patch the game fully offline.
The inclusion of that unprecedented feature would be my absolute most niche wish that I though I alone would hope for but it's just yet another big tick in the list of reasons why I will continue to support stardock.
No copy protection is also a godsend. I refuse to buy steam games or retail games requiring steam because of the need for online activation. Like you mentioned, I like longevity in my games and I will be enjoying it for many years to come.
Your right polls can be skewed. But your wrong about the common knowledge statistics that you just pulled out of your a$$ to suport your argument. You see Comon Knowledge is about 80% of consumers of primary single player games will in fact partake in Multiplayer. And of those 80% only 60% will play beyond the first month. Now see how I pulled those statics out of my a$$? Now from the gamers that I have known and spoken to those numbers I just pulled out of my a$$ is about right, 80% of them do play both SP and MP and about 60% stay with the game after a month.
Now to address your last childish comment. I primaryly play SP but I also like MP play as well...Why you may ask? Because MP is usally more challanging than SP at least until AI can become as good as a human. The reason most of us play MP is for the increase challange level. Just like the reason you don't like MP is because you can't handle the challange that another human can give that the AI can't. Now yes there are people that will gloat but so what just ignore them. And if your too 'thin skin" to ignore them then maybe you should only stick to SP.
Melodrama QUEENIES everywhere. Nobody cares if you don't buy elemental and most especially if you don't get to play multiplayer. This is a game for the single solo player experience. The multiplayer element was just thrown in for some extra income should it come but not necessary for the game to be a success if nobody buys it for the multiplayer experience. I just laugh at the few multiplayer whiners. Same names different faces sort of thing. For once you aren't going to take over a game for your benefit and ruin it like you have so many others like Age of Wonders:SM. Hurrah for Stardock et al. Hip Hip HURRAH. HIP HIP HURRAH. HIP HIP HURRAHAHAHAHAHAAH
Well I see you show your ignorance again. It's not because of the challenge I've never been beaten by a human opponent in a FAIR game it's the 90% of you that CHEAT when you're losing or just outright CHEAT to win. I used to play Age of Empires online and the Kohan series and I never saw so much cheating in my life as in those two games. That's when I decided then and there multiplayer is for KIDS and COWARDS and CHEATERS only. So, you go right on with your friends your cheating coward lying friends I could care less because I know Elemental is going to be the GAME I WANT not the game YOU WANT. hardy har har har.
Well said mate! I wanted to contribute to the discussion as well, but I changed my mind, becauase I've had enough of this as well.
This game will reach the sales figures of Galactic Civilization II because it is a great game with a great ai and fun and those that really care about Stardock and future games from them will buy it just like the Paradox fanboys buy all their games and the Creative Assembly fanboys do the same. None of these multiplayer dweebs are going to change anything or force Stardock to comply on anything in the form of MP because it's just not required or needed for this game to be a success (they don't need their sales or their money it's just extra icing on the cake as Brad has already said they broke even with the PREORDERS alone hahahaha).
Besides if there weren't so many cheap bassturds out there they wouldn't have any problems with this issue anyway. They want to be able to play the game from ONE COPY of it and share it around and stick Stardock without any profits. Good for Stardock don't give them a damn thing.
Actully Risk would be good. The LOTR Risk game is very fun and there is a quick version as well.
Unless I am mistaken, Elemental is a flagship for Impulse::Reactor features that want to compete against Steamworks demonstrating that a viable option to Steamworks exists. And I guess THAT is the primary focus for MP in Elemental.
I disagree, and I suppose I fit nicely into your category of "crazy types" who would appreciate this feature they are offering. In life, change is the only constant, and anything can and will happen. I have an extensive library of games, some dating back to the days when DOS was king and you had to use the little paper wheel every so often to continue playing. Some I am able to still play, others I no longer can. The internet and its varying speed is not available to everyone at all times, and I can appreciate a game company taking the initiative to insure that I am able to use and enjoy a product I payed for. I have many fond memories of playing Master of Magic, and this game recently caught my attention because of its similarities to it. The stance Stardock has chosen concerning LAN, copy protection, the toolset, and even the archival DVD are just icing on the cake, and make me glad to be able support them while doing something I enjoy.
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