Once again, Science is in line with the scriptures. In this case, the Science is in the form of one of the most brilliant Scientific minds of our era, Stephen Hawking. Hawking came out recently saying we need to abandon earth or face extinction. Pretty strong, sobering words coming from a very smart guy. In fact he's advocating we act fast.
Reminds me of the question posed to Jesus, another brilliant mind, by his disciples. "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?"
The answer and description given by Jesus, and then later by John in his vision on the isle of Patmos, is not far off from where Hawking is coming from. In other words, just like the "circle of the earth" and "the earth hangs on nothing" another biblical truth comes to light via the Scientific world showing us that God gave us some very important scientific answers all along.
Biblically speaking, the end of the age will start with a cosmic disturbance. The signs will be in the heavens. Many have mentioned astroids as being the destructive means by which this may happen. Some say nuclear bombs will be our undoing.
The bible is clear about this cosmic disturbance that will usher in the end. It says "the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes." Joel 2:31
and...
"there was a great earthquake and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood: and the stars of heaven fell to the earth even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." Rev 6:12-14
Of course, Hawking has given us his view, sans scripture, but both are saying pretty much the same thing. There's coming a day when we will go from one age to another or we will face extinction on this earth. In Hawking's view he's suggesting we explore space for alternative habitation. In God's Word it says he will usher in a "new heaven and a new earth."
There are many signs that show us that the time is drawing near. Look at what's going on in the animal kingdom. Look at mankind and the hatred, greed and violence that is permeating our culture by the hands of many. The weather and climate is but just another thing to watch. The diseases and pestilences as well. All are going to get expedientially stronger until we can't ignore it any longer. I can't pick up the daily newspaper and not wonder how long do we have?
Only God knows.
Our job is to be ready.
Nitro..I concur with your reply #46. In fact, I could have written most of that myself including the fact that I don't call myself religious either. Although admittedly it is one of my favorite topics because I think there is just way too much confusion in this area about the difference between those who profess to be a believer and those who truly possess a true faith. People automatically think because you're religious, belonging to an upstanding church you must be good.
Heck, even the mafia goes to church before they take someone for a one way ride out of town.
Nitro posts:
I'm asking questions for I don't think so. I think everything we think we know about the idea of black holes, a term coined in 1968, is still theory.
From space.com/blackholes:
We have given black holes their name because light inside the event horizon can never be seen by mankind, or any outside observer. We believe that black holes in space are created by the collapse of a red super giant star. As these stars reach the end of their lives, an imbalance of inward and outward pressure forces the star to collapse.
Information on black holes is limited, though numerous schools of theory exist. We know black holes exist not because we can see them, but because of the impact they have on the space around them.
Hawking and Roger Penrose mathematically linked black holes to the Big Bang, which they assert created the universe and all that's in it.
Just for added interest on Hawking, I found this from 2001.
Hawking stated at a meeting of scientists in Switzerland claiming that "genetic engineering will lead inevitably to 'improved' super-intelligent human beings within the next few centuries." He said that "Humans could be given much larger brains as soon as technology allowed them to be grown outside the confines of the womb".
Here's a link and an excerpt from a Scientist (Christian) who is thinking along the same lines as I am. He's agreeing with Hawking partly like I am, but we have a different solution for Hawking's dilemma than he does.
But first...remember Hawking's said this:
"Let’s face it: The planet is heating up, Earth’s population is expanding at an exponential rate, and the the natural resources vital to our survival are running out faster than we can replace them with sustainable alternatives. Even if the human race manages not to push itself to the brink of nuclear extinction, it is still a foregone conclusion that our aging sun will expand and swallow the Earth in roughly 7.6 billion years."
Stephen Hawking is right in calling the earth a “dying planet.” This is what the Bible tells us:
For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. (Romans 8:22)
The earth (in fact, the whole universe) is dying because of sin—it is now groaning because of the effects of the Curse.
However, Stephen Hawking is wrong in declaring that man could cause his own extinction or that man has to escape to space to survive. The Bible tells us what will happen in the future (and astrophysicist Dr. Robert Smith is partly correct when he says the earth will become “very hot”):
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:10-13) http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2010/08/11/stephen-hawking%E2%80%94both-right-and-wrong/
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:10-13)
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2010/08/11/stephen-hawking%E2%80%94both-right-and-wrong/
double post
KFC posts:
Well said and words that should be taken seriously. The new world leader is the antichrist and he will be far worse than Hitler, a combination of all the tryrants from the beginning of time. The problem is he's going to be so smooth and seem to solve all the world's problems that he will be accepted by many.He will be the leader of an absolute totalitarian world regime.
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The globalists at the UN are attempting to move us towards a one-world government set-up. It's called Globalism. Country after country will give up their sovereignty and people will be forced to give up their property rights. The education system is teaching globalism now.
KFC,
Your post 54 certainly clarifies a lot of things, but that's not what you initially wrote.
You write in post 54....
However, as I see it, you are contradicting what you wrote in your original article.
You write:
How can Hawkings be both wrong and yet be saying pretty much that same thing as Scripture and not far off from the answer and description given by Christ?
That is the problem. You and your religion know better and by GOD, the other 5 billion heathens will just have to see it that way or else. If you so accept the words of Jesus and GOD, why do you spend so much of your time telling us what they really meant? I do not have any problems at all understanding what you call the word of GOD. I just don’t need you or some organization to explain it all to me. And I do not insist there are no other possible exceptions or valid arguments opposing anything I believe in. Just show me the car-fax and we can actually communicate intelligently. If you cannot, then you are just blowing more smoke.
But I do have problems with organizations that placate their flocks with built in excuses for success and failure. If one just continues to fill the coffers, suffer enough penance and meekly goes away, the hierarchy will find it in their hearts to put in a good word with GOD. If something goes wrong it is our fault and everything that goes right is by the grace of the Almighty. Are you people stupid enough to believe that WE are incapable of good work or success or failure on our own merits ... without your blessings or your excuses? It is you that thumbs your proverbial nose at the world in provocation, not I. I am no better or worse than any other human being on this planet as we are all born blissfully ignorant and totally innocent … and then we pollute our children to ensure there is an abundance of future idiots to carry on the grand tradition of trying to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong. It’s just not my cup of tea.
Is that why you refused to believe they exist despite all the evidence? Something goes against your book so you alter the evidence? If so that is rather a nice illustration.
Ok, in that case we agree!
I am not contending that, but the smaller the population, the less likely there were wars between peoples (that is #1). Number 2, I would hesitate to call the sacking of Rome under the Visigoths or the conquest of Asia by Alexander, or the ravaging of Europe by the Huns, or the American Civil War as religious. Not all wars (prior to the 20th century) was based upon religion. Many were, but not all.
The denial of black holes seems to lie in the myth that everything must be seen to be real. That kind of stomps all over the fact that man has more than one sense, and other senses can be used to determine the presence or absence of something. Black Holes are very real. That we cannot see them does not make them fantasy. We cannot see air either, but we can feel it when it blows, smell it when it stinks and even taste it if it is dirty enough.
Sight is an important sense. But it is not the only one.
you are correct. But in science, theory is a very big notion. There are precious few "facts" in science". If something has advanced to the theory level, that would be taken as fact to most lay people. AGW is not even a theory and you see the hysterical rantings of its proponents. It is merely a flawed hypothesis.
Be careful when denigrating a scientific theory. For in scientific theory, you exist, but not in fact.
"Despite all the evidence"? And now I'm accused of altering the evidence? C'mon! My point is what substantial evidence? There is none.
Again I offer this:
As far as I can tell, scientists gave a mathematical calculaton a name, Black Hole. So, Black holes exist on paper, but do they in reality? They point to the universe where radiational activity occurs and declare that they are black holes.
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DrG posts:
Your point is well made and well taken.
Maybe you don't, but many do. Christ set up the church (body of believers) for a purpose. He gave his life for the church. We are to somehow organize ourselves to stay together. I understand that many organizations have gone astray but there are still good bible believing churches out there. Church isn't about explaining anything it's about coming together as a corporate body to worship God.
The Word of God is very clear that different people have different gifts. The church body is likened to a physical body. We are not made up physically of all arms or all legs. It's the same as the church. Not all are preachers or teachers. Not all are gifted with discernment. There are many gifts to make a church work effectively. Some have the gift of compassion, some teaching, some preaching, some helps, etc. If everyone in the church had just compassion or helps they wouldn't be able to discern what was truth and what was not effectively but they would be a lovely group of people to be around.
The whole reason for the church is to work together as a body as they worship God and edifty each other. The stronger body parts help the weaker parts but all the parts are necessary to make a whole. I've been gifted as a teacher. Many do not understand the scriptures so I help them. Maybe you don't need help because you understand it so perfectly but many are illiterate (especially today) when it comes to biblical teachings. I've met young people who never even heard of Abraham, or Noah, or Adam or even understand what Christmas is all about.
me too.
Lula you keep asking the same question. I never ever said that we need to jump on another planet. I specificially said while his premise is the same (the earth is finate) his solution is different (we need to look for alternative planets to inhabit) because we believe God has everything under his control and that's why he's told us these things MUST happen first.
Scripture as I gave you is saying the earth is groaning, the time is drawing near for its demise and that's where we are in agreement with Hawking. Hawking is backing up scripture but in a secular scientific way. That's all.
Jesus made it clear there is an end of the age coming and he gave us the signs in Matt 24. Increasing wars, diseases, earthquakes, pestilences and death, will be the beginning. Not to mention lots of deception and falling away of the spiritual. He also said the love of many will grow cold. He called this time birthpangs and I believe that's where we are today.
It's like I keep saying both sides (secular/science and biblical) have the same evidence we just have different interpretations on what the evidence means.
I'm starting to think you're coming out of the RCC B.T. and if so, you're preaching to the choir here. First of all I don't believe in a hierarchy in the church. Like I said we are a body working together. Is the leg better than an arm? Is the brain better than the heart?
"For the body is not one member but many. If the foot shall say Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, because I am not the eye I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing where were the smelling? But God set the members every one of them in the body as it has pleased him...and the eye cannot say to the hand I have no need of you nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. No, much more those members of the body which seem to be more feeble are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honourable (bowels?) upon thse we bestow more abundant honor and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness." 1 Cor 12
It's the same with the members of a church. A Pastor is to shepherd his flock, but NOT to lord it over them and act high and mighty. If so, time to find a new church or organization. Jesus is the head of the church and he gave his life for it. He served the church. He did not proudly prance around as better than the lowly people under him. He got on their level, became one of them. He was a nobody who came from two nobodies even though in reality he was a very big somebody. That's why he said "the first shall become last and the last first."
Actually Basmas there is nothing in the book about black holes for or against. Lula just doesn't believe in the black hole theory evidently. Don't blame the book.
Lula: Here's an article on black holes from Answers In Genesis which, as you know, is Christian backed and they are defending the black hole theory.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n1/black-holes-evidence
In fact they said:
Black holes are real phenomena in our universe. These massive objects produce such a strong gravitational pull that not even light can escape.
Da Vinici was a Christian. I'm fairly certain by reading some of his philosophy was a fairly devote one at that.
How is doing unto others part of the law of nature. Also, as Doc pointed out many wars were fought that weren't 'religious' backed.
If you did do away with Religion there would still be war. Because wars are generally not fought over religion but land, resources, and occasional power hungry individual.
Whether you want to admit it or not there are universal truths. A right angle is 90 degree angle. In China, its still 90 degrees. In the Artic circle its still 90 degrees. I could say that a right angle is 83 degrees or could give you a bet that my right angle is bigger than yours (if you didn't take my bet then you're a lepton because you would win) but that doesn't matter because its 90 degrees no matter what anyone says or hard someone tries to say otherwise. Even if there were some people that never heard of a right angle it still would be 90 degrees.
That's Truth, Truth has and will always be. You can say that all religions are the same which isn't true for they each believe in something different. They may have some similarities, but for the most part are different.
Shakespeare lived in the late 1500s, so on scheme of things not too long ago. In all of his popularity and he was very popular when he was alive, we still lost several of his plays even a few that were performed at the time we lost. The Dead Seas Scrolls shows that the Tanckh has been accurately kept. Even from a historical aspect, its good. For a nation to show all of its screw ups in its history especially nations in that same period was unheard of.
BoobzTwo posts:
First, by religion I mean that act of justice by which we render to God both privately as individuals, and publicly as social beings, the honor, worship, gratitude and obedience due Him, and in the way prescribed by Him.
On the other page someone provided a handy dandy chart of the world religions. A comparative study proves that only one of those listed (Christianity) is Divinely-revealed true religion, while all the rest, however lofty their teachings, prove to be humanly invented religions.
True Christian faith cannot lead one into error. The reason is becasue there is only one truth. We prove that God has said a thing and believe becasue He has said it. Doubt could be possible only could God be deceived or deceive mankind. But He could not. He knows all things and is Truth itself. Also He has given abundant external signs to confirm His revelation. True Christianity is certainly right and knows better because God is right and knows better.
Almighty God gives each one of us sufficient intelligence and reason to be able to believe what He has revealed.
Believe it or not, accept it or not, all good comes from God. Every one of us is capable of doing good work. To do good or right implies that good or right ought to be done. Ought supposes some kind of law. And all law derives its force from some kind of a lawgiver.
Now consider this. To do good pushes us back to doing good for the sake of the Supreme Author of all good and right. No one can do good or do right if he ignores God for without God he cannot prove that what he thinks to be good or right is good or right or has any binding force at all.
Thanks KFC, I don't fault anyone for their beliefs, I just don't care to proselytized to. That doesn't mean people can't discuss it openly. At the very least everyone should recognize the good things the church (and synagogue or mosque) does for their communities. The government seems to be trying to supplant this work, but who knows the communities better? As for the personal aspect, we are all headed for the truth. I'm glad there are folks out there to pray for the rest of us, it can't hurt.
Lula, you know I do understand why some would find globalization attractive, everyone living in harmony, is sounds good. Call me a pessimist, I just feel aspects of this trend will be abused. Once the US is just like the rest of the world, who is the white knight when something goes wrong? Who looks to the Congo (not knocking the Congo, just an example) for leadership, bravery in the face of tyranny?
Don't get me started on the UN.... there's your irrefutable proof about "black holes" at least as far as money that could be better spent is concerned! Just one more bureaucracy to skim the donated funding off the top.
Thanks for post 65.
I'll not belabor the point any longer except to say that I agree with your post 54 which imo contradicts some of your statments in the original article.
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I have no problem whatsoever with understanding the Black Hole as theory. Unfortunately, with Hawking and others, scientists now call Black holes real phenomena in our universe. My question remains unanswered....Are they really real?
Do you know that Hawking believes that at the heart of Black Holes are singularities and went on to calculate the entire universe could have sprung from a Black hole singularity. This singularity is called the Big Bang cosmic origin and expansion of the universe and all that's in it. Yep...he's selling stellar evolution... and I'm not buying it. Why? Becasue I believe the Holy Bible. In fact, to believe this turns Our Creator and Lord Jesus Christ into a liar for He said that Adam and Eve were there "from the beginning of the creation" in St.Mark 10:6, referring to the account in Genesis 1:26-27 not several billion years after the beginning of creation.
The Black hole fits stellar evolution so well that it pushes God so far out that He is eliminated altogether. So, if this is the sense in which we are to understand Black holes as real phenomena, I'd say to Basmas that the Good Book does indeed have something against black holes.
Nitro Cruiser posts:
This is very profound.
And this is not only smart but very nice to say.
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Yeah. The problem is while the Globalists will promise every one living in harmony, they won't deliver on it.
Remember that many find Socialism and Marxism attractive too.
Ha...I know you understand when you say this!
There is a master plan to rule the world and this is no conspiracy theory!!!
A good read (490 pages) on this is called "Hope of the Wicked" by Ted Flynn. He gives these statements of fact presented by the "greats" of this world.
"It is the sacred principles enshrined in the UN Charter to which the AMerican people will henchforth pledge their allegiance." Pres. George Bush addressing the UN General Assembly 2/1/92.
"This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of one world government. National sovereignty is no longe a viable concept." Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Secretary to Pres. Jimmy Carter.
"Nationhood as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, former deputy, Sec. of State and Bill Clinton's Oxford roomate. in Time, July 1992.
I believe them. They are deadly serious.
you got that right and I'll put you on "the list."
Here is a simply answer for you. Yes they are really real. They exist in this universe at the this time in the same way that you exist.
Your existence to me is as real as the black holes, |I have never seen you, touched you, smelt you or heard you. I have seen a lot of evidence that you exist and your existence follows on from the most likely explanation of all the evidence. There remains the possibility that your posts have all happened by chance and you are just programming errors in the board or that I have misunderstood the evidence - the same applies to each and every person on this board that you have had no contact with outside these boards however that explanation is rather unlikely to say the least. That is the same way as black holes.
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