Once again, Science is in line with the scriptures. In this case, the Science is in the form of one of the most brilliant Scientific minds of our era, Stephen Hawking. Hawking came out recently saying we need to abandon earth or face extinction. Pretty strong, sobering words coming from a very smart guy. In fact he's advocating we act fast.
Reminds me of the question posed to Jesus, another brilliant mind, by his disciples. "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?"
The answer and description given by Jesus, and then later by John in his vision on the isle of Patmos, is not far off from where Hawking is coming from. In other words, just like the "circle of the earth" and "the earth hangs on nothing" another biblical truth comes to light via the Scientific world showing us that God gave us some very important scientific answers all along.
Biblically speaking, the end of the age will start with a cosmic disturbance. The signs will be in the heavens. Many have mentioned astroids as being the destructive means by which this may happen. Some say nuclear bombs will be our undoing.
The bible is clear about this cosmic disturbance that will usher in the end. It says "the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes." Joel 2:31
and...
"there was a great earthquake and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood: and the stars of heaven fell to the earth even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." Rev 6:12-14
Of course, Hawking has given us his view, sans scripture, but both are saying pretty much the same thing. There's coming a day when we will go from one age to another or we will face extinction on this earth. In Hawking's view he's suggesting we explore space for alternative habitation. In God's Word it says he will usher in a "new heaven and a new earth."
There are many signs that show us that the time is drawing near. Look at what's going on in the animal kingdom. Look at mankind and the hatred, greed and violence that is permeating our culture by the hands of many. The weather and climate is but just another thing to watch. The diseases and pestilences as well. All are going to get expedientially stronger until we can't ignore it any longer. I can't pick up the daily newspaper and not wonder how long do we have?
Only God knows.
Our job is to be ready.
or perhaps it is an acknowledgment that Atheism is a religion in itself.
it really is but of course they would deny it. Instead of God they worship self. I know there are atheistic groups that participate in group meetings. I asked once what they discuss when they meet together and was told they use the bible to try and discredit it. Sounded to me like the blind leading the blind.
We are all made to worship something. It's how we're made. If not God, then something else.
What is your definition of help? Please distinguish what your criterion are for making this statement?
Madalyn Murray O'Hair on the American Atheists web page: "Atheism is based upon a materialist philosophy, which holds that nothing exists but natural phenomena. There are no supernatural forces or entities, nor can there be any."
Doc, I know the point your driving at (Nitro point is valid about agnostics) and if one does look at it the belief that there is no GOD is a religion of sorts. According to merriam webster the 4th definition of religion is a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
As we can see, there are some very faithful atheists.
Rubbish. I worship nothing. Strictly speaking I am an agnostic but to all practical points I am an atheist. The difference is there - it boils down to the impossible of disproving something that is alleged to have the power to remove all evidence that is does or does not exist.
I think that the big bang/evolution are the best theorems that we have to explain how we came to be but if there was, non circular indipendatable verifiable, evidence to point to a different theory I would change my mind. There is no evidence that cold ever be found that would alter your mind. Even if Odin appeared in front of you and Thor fired lighting bolts you would assume that your bronze age creation myth was testing you
hogwash. We all worship something. If I had a day to spend with you I would be able to tell you what you worship. By taking a look at your bookshelf and your checkbook it would reveal lots about you. People who have no faith in God find themselves quite often addicted to something trying to fill that void. The same part of the brain stem that shows activity when one worships in a worship setting is the same part of the brain that shows activity when one has an addictive behavior they are engaging in.
That's why many who come to faith in God are able to kick their addicted behavior. They are switching one for another. I saw my husband do this personally with alcohol. I tried for years to get him to quit the drinking before my boys would grow to emulate him. He could not. Until one day...he quit cold turkey never once even taking a sip after that. It was all God. There are millions of stories out there just like this.
it all comes down to faith. I have faith there is a God. Atheists have faith there is NO God. I worship God. They worship something else in place of God.
To Worship God is to place trust and complete faith in another ouside of one's self. It's to acknowledge one greater than you. There are some that only trust and put faith in themselves. They don't need God or anyone for that matter. They don't call it worship but in effect that's what they're doing. Only instead of worshipping the God of Creation they are worshipping themselves and finding ways to worship sans God.
That's how it all started right in the garden. I don't need God. I can make my own decisions about life because I AM and I CAN!
Hey it was your choice of words in your accusation that I wanted to just eliminate christianity. I was just clarifying that if I had my way all the religions would be eliminated. That you are incapable of recognizing that, shows just how indoctrinated you are. Also, define insightful, because the definition I'm picking up from you is nodding my head up and down in agreement with every single republican talking point, while simultaniously writing obama and islam off as the devil, spouting unending devotion to christianity and praising the Tea party as the savior of the country.
By help I mean contribute to the advancement of humanity.
You are completely wrong. I worship nothing. There is nothing on this earth that I believe in despite there being no independent evidence. There are millions of stories of people going cold turkey about smoking that did not use god to help them stopping.
I do not think there is a god in the same way, and to the same extent, that I think there are no invisible pink elephants, or large ethereal violent murderous pussycats. There is no evidence to support their being and no reason to suppose they exist
Reading the future is no different in religious circles than any other circle … it is impossible. When you predict the ‘end’ of the world, you are only stating the obvious outcome based on nature and the laws of physics. Now you may if you want to somehow make this into a profound religious prediction, be my guess but it changes nothing. Even a rock (albeit a large one called Earth) has a finite existence and will be reclaimed by the cosmos for a redistribution of the wealth that WAS earth. Because of this, the only debate can be about ‘when’ and it is my contention that reading tea leaves or tarot cards is just as accurate as biblical references to the end of the Earth. Hawking is an avowed atheist and has merely stating the obvious concerning the longevity of our solar system. One man does NOT make a consensus unless you are a Democrat, just ask Igor.
Personally, I do not have any use for organized religion of any kind. History has shown us (regardless of the fact that we no longer appreciate that history), more murder and mayhem has taken place in the name of ‘GOD’ than all other reasons combined. The debauchery we as a people practice all over the world today must dwarf events of biblical times if for no other reason than there are billions of more outwardly decadent assholes today. Just look at practice of infanticide in this the best of the best of nations.
I do not need some pedophile in black robes or some animal in a cave espousing hate to guide my way through life. The honest pursuit of life need be guided only by the laws of nature which in simplistic jargon relates to ‘Do unto others as you would have others do unto you'. The problem here is that one needs to be sane else it all falls apart … as it has.
As for the exploration and colonization of the stars is concerned I would ask that you consider the following. Unless you have a hidey-hole someplace where you can dig up hundreds of thousands of people who are divorced from all corrupt politics (and PC garbage) and are righteous to a fault, you are doomed before you start. If there were actually some ‘saints’ available, maybe, but we will be sending HUMAN BEINGS out there and haven’t we already demonstrated the capricious nature humanity.
As a friend once told me, “We cannot learn how to live inside the box so how in the hell are we going to live and survive outside of it?” I believe it is up to us to effect what changes we can and let the gods tend to themselves.
then I have to ask..have you read any biblical references regarding the endtimes? Have you read any references that have been prophesied and come to pass already? Do you know there has to be 100% accuracy regarding biblical prophecy? Nothing less is acceptable and makes sense if it really is from God. But tea leaves? How accurate are those?
There is evidence but you choose not to believe it. Your belief system will not allow you to go in this direction. It's like showing you a watch and you refusing to believe that someone made that watch. You can see the evidence you just won't believe there was a designer behind it. Same with creation. The evidence is all around you. You just refuse, due to your belief system, to believe in the designer behind it.
and this type of comment is exactly what I was talking about in my last posting. You have replaced the creator God with yourself.
Doombringer: who are you addressing in your last posting?
Nitro for the bulk of it and PP for the last bit
Yes, and that statement in itself probably aggravates them to no end!
Which can be said of Atheists as well. One tries to prove the impossible (actually, they do not, and that is why it is called faith, and not fact), and the other tries to disprove the impossible. Both being impossible.
For those who are COMFORTABLE in their faith - and that can be Atheists as well as religious - there is no problem. The problem arises when one side tries to stamp out the other. IN the past that may have been the religious, and in some parts of the world it still is. However in present day western society, it is the atheist doing the attempting. They should learn from the mistakes of the religious both past and present.
Here we disagree Boobztwo. No, religion has been supplanted by another ism (although some call it a religion), and that is Communism. If you check your tote board, you will find that more have been killed in the name of communism than all religious wars combined. Mostly because there are more people around today than there was during the past.
Which is why I am am not an atheist. I freely admit that it is possible that there is a being who had the power to remove all evidence that they ever existed. I am an agnositic - it is impossible to prove one way or another that there is/was a supernatural being however there is no indipendant evidence that there is/was one. So I am as agnostic about the christian god as I am about Thor - there is equal evidence for both.
All evidence that you have shown on these boards applies to each and every diety - eg the norse had a designer, as did the greeks. I am as agnostic about them as I am about your 'god'. Same proof applies to all.
I'm glad you said "religious" and not "Christian" because the two are NOT necessarily the same.
Christ was apolitical and never ever engaged in or supported anything in that realm. More than once they wanted to make him a King but he refused by slipping away knowing their intentions. Too many in the past (and still today) use religious activity to further their agendas which usually involved much corruption and greed. This has nothing to do with the cause of Christ and his teachings. The evidences point to the contrary.
I'm studying for my lesson tomorrow on John 8. In that section the religious Jews were claiming to be followers of Abraham using their heritage as leverage. They were religious, to their fingertips. When Christ challenged them by asking them questions and pointing out the contrary evidences to what they were saying, they got irate. In other words, their sayings did not match their actions and deep down they knew it. You can't say you follow Christ (or in this case Abraham) and then go on a killing spree to make others believe the way you do. Makes no sense.
Ten times between Verses 12-59 the religious Jews (his enemies) interrupted, contradicted or reviled Him. They never answered one question posed to them. Instead they twisted his words. Jesus' dignity and perfect meekness under the contradiction of sinners ought to be the example to all his disciples who follow him. I've met Christians like this and they have my utmost respect and admiration. They are the true examples of what we are supposed to be like. I'm working on this and hope one day to have that same discipline.
Like I said the evidence is there. It's just a matter of who you wish to attribute it to.
You reminded me of an old Jewish legend. Perhaps Leauki knows it.
Abram's (Abraham) Father Terah was an idol worshipper living in the land of Ur of the Chaldees. The legend goes that he owned an idol shop where he sold all sorts of little gods to suit everyone. One day he told Abram, his son, to watch the shop. Abram broke every single idol in the shop but one. When his father came back, he was horrified to see all the broken idols. He questioned his son. "What happened?"
Abram pointed to the one lone idol still standing with a little sword in his hand. He explained to his father that the lone idol did all the damage. His father looked at his son in astonishment but said something to the effect, "how can that be? It's just a wooden idol that cannot hear or see."
Exactly.
???????
KFC posts:
You write: "there's coming a day when we will go from one age to another or we will face extinction on this earth"? Please explain what this means in this context as you have written?
There is nothing in Scripture that speaks of facing extinction. As a matter of fact Scripture records Christ's promise that He will be with us until the consummation of the world.
Biblically, ever since the beginning of time, history has been split into 3 "ages". The period of the first age was that of Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. The second age was the time of the Old Law...from Moses until Christ. The last age began with Christ and will go until the consummation (end) of the world when time and human history will end.
(Now, the only time (age) that we would/could be able to explore space for alternative habitation as Hawkings suggests is during this last age.)
When this last age comes to an end, it's the end of the world, the end of all life, (including If there are any, all those in outer space). The four last things are Death, Judgment, Heaven or Hell.
Yes, and this "new heaven and new earth" is in eternity. At this point we are at the end of time and eternity has begun..eternal heaven for some and eternal Hell for others.
KFC posts #8
Are there black holes? Have any been detected? Don't think so.
The "black hole" is an extreme theory for which there is no substantial evidence.
Not on your life. I leave creation to the blathering fools want to babble about it. But as to your reference, I can live with if it makes you happy ... that is what we are talking about here. But the mere mention of GOD(S) ruffles your panties no end, hehe.
Couldn't have said it any better, kudos to you Basmas .
If you want to play semantics, I suppose you could be right but it’s all in how you read the cards. I view communism AS a religion or as an antipathies to hold down the bottom of the scale. The scale doesn’t just STOP when some point of no return position is reached, the scale goes down and down until you get to the bottom. That entire aside, consider modern-day communism only came into existence in the 20th century. Even though responsible for the largest killing sprees recorded, I find it difficult to believe that fewer people had lived prior to the 20th century than there were after the 19th century. I am not going to look it up, just seems wrong.
My choice of words? I just quoted you. What would give me any indication that anyone wanted to eliminate any religion, unless they stated it themselves? Not something I would believe would come up in a casual conversation.
Then you must not be very observant, since I'm not very religious, I don't often comment on the topic. I'm also not bothered by anyone else's particular faith (or lack of it), whatever gives you comfort. I don't believe Republicans have a lock on good government, but they are not in complete control of the show now, are they? So where do you believe the focus should be? I don't support most of Obama's policies (but it's not personal), with partial exception to Afghanistan (so not a complete write off). I don't believe I've ever made a determination that Islam was evil. While I'm all for conservative principles, I'm not a tea party member, nor have I advocated here or anywhere else on their behalf, even though I agree with many of their points.
So how again am I defining what should be insightful for you? You'll need to do better than your quote above. On the contrary, I've been quite tolerant of your rant. Why? Because in the end it really doesn't matter to me. You aren't changing my mind, and I couldn't care less if I changed yours, but there are folks here, both left and right, that have some insightful things to say from time to time. Comment if you like, just be prepared to answer for or explain what you write when questioned, otherwise nothing you post will be taken as remotely close to insightful. There is a reason for the quasi-political posts in the "Off Topic" section. It's because those folks can't meaningfully discuss their points here in the politics forums and get upset, take away their ball and go home, blocking dissenters, when someone disagrees with their philosophy. I'm not bothered who disagrees with me, some do. If that's you (easily bothered by disagreement), you'll find kinship there.
Lula, I'm going to disagree here. I believe scientists have observed the gravitational forces of these phenomenon. I haven't researched it myself, and I could be wrong, but I seem to recall something about it on Discovery or the Science channel.
It is not a fact that Hawkings is pretty much saying what the Bible says. Where in Scripture is it that we need to abandon earth or face extinction? Where is it in Scripture the humans must turn to outer space for survival?
Probably because most religions tend to borrow elements from earlier ones. It is evolving as we speak... splinter groups, policy changes, etc.
There's no sense Lula in speaking about this with you. You are a preterist so you believe everything I'm speaking about (Revelation and prophecy) has already happened.
not really B.T. Because I know better.
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