UFO's and Aliens. Do they exist? Do you think there's even a chance that there is other intelligent life in our galaxy or universe or do you think we Humans are the only intelligent life in all of creation? These are questions that we as a species, man-kind, have asked since as far as our recorded history goes back. Even Ancient man, with no knowledge of modern science or modern understanding of what "Space" was, would look to the night sky at the twinkling stars and wonder...."Are we truly alone?".
Honestly, I've always thought aliens existed. Whether or not they've actually visited this planet at any point in it's history I don't know and I don't think anyone can truly say one way or the other and have definitive proof. Of course there is probably just as much "proof" that aliens don't exist as there is that they do, but, at least we are now discovering for a Fact that there is or was "some form" of life in the universe outside of the planet Earth. We know from microscopic fossils in martian rocks that at one point millions of years ago there was at the very least Single Celled life on Mars. We found this out back in the late 90's. Didn't hear about it? That's not surprising since I only found out about it because of a 10 second mention on ABC's "World News Tonight" back in 96-97. Today how-ever you can research this for your-self as many papers and articles have been published on the subject. A quick Google Search will lead you to many results such as these:
Meteorite Yields Evidence of Primitive Life on Early Mars Source: www.solarviews.com Article from 1997
Fossil Life in Martian Rock Found in Antarctica ? Source: http://spider.seds.org/spider/Mars/Marsrock/marsrocks.html Article from 1996
Proof of Life in Three Martian Rocks May Come This Year Source: www.popsci.com Article from 2010
This is enough in my eyes to call it "Definitive Proof", they're just waiting on the specific results so they can say it's a fact without a shadow of a doubt, and I respect them for waiting and taking it slow and doing the science the right way. A claim such as this can't be rushed no matter how apparent the results of any "proof" might be.
While I do believe in intelligent life outside of this planet, I'm still a skeptic. I mostly believe in what I can see with my own eyes. What I can feel with my own two hands. I think it's important for anyone doing any Serious research into the matter to be a skeptic and to try to dis-prove or debunk as many fakes as possible. With our advances in computers and video editing and special effects it's easier than ever for the nut-jobs and conspiracy wackos out there to make convincing "proof" on their own and it's people like those that bring a bad ilk to any Serious research into the matter. Sadly there are a lot of fakers and crazy people out there working in both directions of the debate. There are people who make fake videos of UFO's and try to pass them off as real and there are various groups and religious zealots who try to prove that Everything is fake and say that None Of It is real and anyone who believes there is intelligent non-human life in the universe is a moron or a liar.
Worse yet there are many people out there who are terrified of the idea that aliens may exist. Some people are so closed minded that no matter what scientific advances we may make or what we may learn about the universe and life its-self, they will Never believe that alien life exists even if aliens were to land on the White-House lawn and announce to the world that they are real and that they are here. Even if that did happen (which of course it hasn't) there would be a certain percentage of the world's population that would say it was faked, even if the proof was pointing a particle cannon at their head.
I'm about to tell a story I've never told publicly before. I've never told it honestly because I'm a little afraid of what it may make people think in regards to my sanity. If you choose to believe it, that's great. If you choose not to believe it, that's great too. One thing I do know for sure, I know what I saw...
Note: Before I get into the story, keep in mind that I was a kid. I was 13 or 14 years old. I had never done any drugs, didn't smoke cigs, didn't drink, and I wasn't a wild kid with a crazy imagination. I never had an "imaginary friend" at any point and even when I did grow up and start "partying" I've never had a hallucination nor have I ever saw something that I wasn't completely sure was right in front of me (magic tricks aside).
It was the summer of the year that my family moved from Deland in Volusia County out to Lake Mack in Lake County, Florida. I had to go to summer school that year to make up a failing English grade in 7th grade English (long story but basically I got screwed out of the grade I should have received). Because there weren't that many kids in my area going to summer school that year all of us in the neighborhood had to meet down at the corner store which was the only bus-stop for summer school that year. School started at 7 A.M. and was all the way in Leesburg (almost an hour from my house). We kids had to be at the bus-stop at 5:30 A.M. because it was a very long ride all the way to Leesburg from where we were in Lake Mack and there were other students to stop and pick up along the way. I was walking to the bus-stop down a long winding road. It was a normal paved road and there were houses and trailers all over the place. Even though the road was deserted because it was so early in the morning it was still a populated and crowded neighborhood. As I was rounding the bends I noticed all the tall pine trees were swaying back and forth pretty hard like there was about to be a storm, but oddly enough I couldn't feel any wind. I'm not going to say there wasn't any wind, there very well could have been and the currents were too high off the ground for me to feel the wind, but, I didn't actually feel any wind.
I was looking up at the tops of the pine trees when a very Large Triangle came out over the trees. At first I thought it was a helicopter and maybe I was seeing the lights on the ends of the rotors but then two things hit me. First, I couldn't hear Any noise. None what-so-ever. Second, if the lights I saw were on the ends of the rotors they would have been spinning very fast and not been stationary. They were also way too far apart to be rotor blades. The object was at least 3 times as high up as the trees, maybe 4 times as high, and it...was....Massive. I'm talking like the size of a Boeing 747, Massive. I quickly realized there was no way in hell that it was a helicopter. There were no flashing lights on it. They were on steadily. There were four lights in total. One larger light in the center and three more slightly smaller lights, one at each tip of the Triangle. I had seen plenty of helicopters up close, even military ones as I've lived close to Deland Airport for most of my time in Deland and seen plenty of air shows and air planes and helicopters first hand. I've seen both the Apache and the smaller Cobra Attack Chopper that it shares it's design with. It's also of note that out in Lake Mack in Lake County we were technically on the out-skirts of the Ocala National Forrest. The army had a bombing range on the far edge of the forrest and at least 3 or 4 times a year you could hear the bombs being dropped and all you had to do was go outside when the planes or helicopters were flying over-head to see what vehicles were doing the bombing. Lake Mack was right underneath their flight path for a long time even though the bombing range its-self was a good 60 or 70 miles away.
Anyway, when I realized just what it was I was looking at....well, I'm not ashamed to admit I got scared and started running for the bus-stop. I didn't look back and I didn't slow down. When I finally got to the point where I could see the store and see the other kids through the darkness standing under the street light at the store I stopped running. I didn't want the other kids thinking I was too scared to walk to the bus-stop in the dark, which I wasn't. I've never been afraid of the dark, not even as a small child. At that point when I stopped running I took the time to look behind me. Not surprisingly I didn't see anything. Nothing. No ship, no Triangle, no wind, and the trees were as still as could be since there was no wind.
I'm not gonna say I know for sure that it was aliens. I don't and to surmise that with no further evidence would be kinda stupid in my eyes. What I do know is that I have no idea what it was and it WASN'T a conventional aircraft. I honestly don't know what It was, but I do know I have Never seen Anything like It nor have I since. That one experience has led me to believe in intelligent life outside of this planet. I can't say it Was aliens. I can say I Think it was, because I have no other explanation for it.
So.....what do YOU believe? Do YOU think we're alone in the universe? Or do YOU think there is far more out there then we could ever dream is possible?
Did I say silent? Did I say radio was out of business? If you want to make a relevant point do me the courtesy of not misrepresenting what I write. As it is I see no reason to respond to your strawman statements.
I will repeat that emission is a question of POWER. If you think that all the turn signals in the world are going to be measurable a million light years away then I really don't know what response is dignified to your fundamental lack of understanding.
Wow, all ONE of them? I don't even think you realize how idiotic is is to continue talking about 'all the advanced civilizations that we know of' is.
Irony is clearly a lost art.
Ummm...
Yes? Are you trying to be 'ironic' again?
Look I know you have no honest counter argument, so you're just throwing out random strawmen and probably intentionally ignoring what I actually write.
It's unclear to me if you seriously think you have a point, or if you're just another one of those 'oh noES I can't lose an internets fight!
I may as well....you certainly are. #178 sort of buggers your continuity.
Sometimes, while waiting for the US SD crew to come online I 'amuse' myself with pointing out holes in others' logic. It's certainly not an 'internets fight'....as they are, by definition unwinnable and thus pointless.
It keeps the forums ticking over, though....
I will apply some of my logic then...
There are no aliens here, or visiting here. Anyone who believes that they are is a nut.
If there are aliens out there capable of travelling here, why would they want to visit this hell hole?
To assume faster than light travel is not possible because scientists say it isn't, is the same as ancients assuming the Earth was the centre of the universe. Just because we have more knowledge now doesn't mean we have the right answer...
To assume man is the only intelligent life in the universe is human arrogance...
...to assume man is intelligent in the first place is human arrogance...
To come into this thread and read all this tripe clearly demonstrates I have no intelligence...
Fuzzy called me a nut!!!!! I'm telling Yoda!!!
See, that's the thing with us being humans and trying to understand the reasoning of an "Alien Intelligence". If there are aliens capable of coming here they "could" be coming here for reasons we couldn't possibly fathom. Perhaps they need part of the genetic code from something we have on our planet that they don't have on theirs. Perhaps they came here thousands of years ago, planted us here, and left. As we DO know, space is VAST and it takes a Very Long Time to travel between stars which "could" explain why they haven't been back yet. There's nothing to say it's impossible for them to travel between stars in whatever time-frame it takes for them to travel, as we know nothing about them, not even if they really exist or not. As such, I think it would be just as arrogant to assume they haven't been here as we have no idea why they would or wouldn't want to come here. Perhaps they simply want to learn about us or study us because to them, studying us would be like studying their past. We humans like to study the past because it teaches us about the future by studying patterns through-out history. There "could be" any number of reasons why they may want to come here that are simply beyond our current capability to understand and comprehend.
I would have to agree with you though that many of the theories as to why they would want to visit this planet are kind of crazy, but the simple fact of the matter is we just don't know for sure. Just because we can't see something doesn't mean we can prove it doesn't exist. If we were to travel back in time to medieval times and tell someone they had billions of tiny "cells" in their bodies and that they were in fact made up of "atoms and molecules" they'd think we were insane and believed in "invisible things" that don't exist because they don't have high powered microscopes and can't see these things the way we have.
Because something going out of business is the same as being out of business?
If you cared to or were able to debate the merits of an argument you wouldn't have to resort to misrepresentation. But sure, since your view is that the ETs are listening for our turn signals I suppose it goes without saying that you don't really have an argument anyway.
Raven-
You're quite right of course, we have no way of knowing what might motivate ETs, or even what kind of society/technology they might develop or desire. So, we inject our own biases into the question and make assumptions about what the ETs are doing (or would do) because it's what we would do. I would only quibble with your statement about 'in any time frame' if you meant that they could control the time frame, rather than being forced to follow the laws of physics (which again, might not be what we currently understand them to be, but it's pointless to just guess how they might be different). I'm not sure you meant it that way, you may have meant that a million years is a short time for them, so coming and going over a million year time span wouldn't phase them as it would us.
That's pretty much what I meant, yes. For them, as far as we know, they could have the capability to go into hibernation for long periods of time. Or perhaps they have mastered cryogenic technology, or perhaps their biological make-up could allow them to easily freeze themselves for space travel and they don't have a problem thawing out. Or, maybe, just maybe (and this is a Long Shot guess here), maybe they have such a vast technological understanding that they can bend time and space and open "worm holes". We just don't know and never will until we meet them face to face, which may or may not ever happen.
It's always fun to engage in contemplation of it though.
Who are "we"?
Because tens of thousands of people everywhere have seen (at least) something.
That other people and the media laugh about it doesn't make events less real.
I've seen things too my friend, as I cover in my OP. When I was saying "we" can't see things I did mean all of us though. There are LOTs of things out there and even right here on Earth that we can't see, but that we know exist, like "quarks" and "neutrons" and any number of sub-microscopic things. I'm right there with ya man, no worries.
E.O. Wilson is one of the most famous 20th century naturalists. His theories on evolutionary biology (mainly about genetically inherited social structures/skills) were controversial and revolutionary.
What does he study? Ants. Lots of ants. Little ants. Big ants. Ants.
Most people would consider ants to be primitive in nature. But, from an evolutionary standpoint, they are not. In fact, there are a lot of tiny organisms that are as equally advanced as humans from an evolutionary standpoint. Learning about ants and other organisms helps us learn about ourselves and our planet.
If life is a constant in the universe, why is it so hard to believe that extraterrestrials would want to study life on our planet? What if this alien life is not carbon based. Wouldn't stumbling upon sentient carbon-based life be fascinating? If I were given the opportunity to study life on another planet, I would. And this includes learning about social structures, resource use and so on.
The question should be why wouldn't an extraterrestrial want to study us?
I don't worry
It's just that I had to find an angle to put my foot in the door of this thread.
What I find incredible is people giving reasons why aliens/UFOs can't be here (galaxies too far, no interest,...) and denying the facts (TONS of them) indicating that there IS something here.
I made a little analogy that I like to say:
It's like an Englishman looking through his window and seeing a tiger in his garden. What should he think:
- hey, I am in England and there's no tiger in England. Let's forget it!
or
- hey, there's a tiger in my garden! Better call the police.
However disturbing, facts must be confronted and not denied.
...or yet another possible answer: 4X [explore, expand, exploit & exterminate]
What facts? That's the problem with the 'believers' they claim facts, yet cannot present any thing beyond hearsay. Just because you or a million yous see something and you don't know what it is (which is rather different from a tiger, since we know what they are) doesn't mean it becomes a fact that ETs are visiting us.
The fact is that 'you' saw something and can't explain what it is. 1000 years ago you would have fallen on your knees and started praying to it. Today 'you' say it's the visitors come to... well I guess we're in agreement that no one knows why they came here, or what they are doing.
Like the druids, from stonehenge, according to David St. Hubbins anyway...
We can 'see' quarks and neutrinos though, in that we hypothesize them, then design experiments to measure them, and succeed. We can also hypothesize ETs, and design experiments to see them (SETI is one such, though not looking on earth...). Problem is that so far we haven't measured them. And my opinion based on our current understanding of the laws of the universe, is that it's unlike we ever will see them, or if we do (SETI) it will be some signal from a million light years away which won't really change much because we'll never actually have contact, just a blip on a screen somewhere that someone else is (or likely was) out there.
Or more to the point....if it's from a million light years away it's meaningless anyway.....just like we have no need to run around in circles like headless chooks just because a comet[whatever] wiped out the dinosaurs.
Tyranny of 'distance'...in this case timing....
Ah, but we do know what they were doing. They were erecting landmarks in stone so that aliens knew where to land.
While that's all well and true, the reason I brought up Quarks and such was to show that people a hundred years ago Couldn't see them and would call people from today "crazy" for thinking they exist at all. We can see and measure microscopic things today with our advanced technology and learning. Back in midieval times if they couldn't see it with the naked eye, it didn't exist and thinking otherwise would get you burned at the stake for witch-craft.
I see. Allow me one correction if you will
100 years ago people were more than comfortable with the notion of subatomic particles, they just didn't know how to look for them (well they may have known, but lacked the technology to do it), but were capable of devising 'thought experiments' to look for them. The dark ages were not so much anti-science as they were pro-religion either. It wasn't so much that people couldn't imagine microscopic entities (see: the Greeks...), it was that a certain group of people effectively controlled the world through the reins of religion, and were not going to let go.
I take the point that we don't know what we don't know though. However, I counter it by restating that while it's a certainty that we will know things are different in some way from what we think they are today, we have absolutely no idea what that difference will be. So while it's fair to say that our knowledge and technology will increase and change the world in ways we may not fully appreciate, it's not fair to assume what those changes will be.
For the time being FTL travel and wormholes are impossibilities, at least for moving large objects. We can speculate all we want, but I always get the idea that people have watched or read too much sci-fi and have formed some opinions about what will happen based off of that episode of TNG where Picard said 'make it so!'. Now I enjoy sci-fi almost as much as the next guy, but I remember what the 'fi' stands for
1) I don't have to believe in OFOs. I SAW one.
2) Hawking' statement about that mankind has to go to the stars to survive because the sun will explode in some million years is laughable. By then there will BE no mankind anymore!
UFO's and ALIENS are two entirely seperate subjects and discussions.
Witout a doubt, the Universe has an abundunce of life, both intelligent and primative.
So Aliens, definately = YES.
UFO's are simply that, an UNIDENTIFIED flying object. That does not necessarily mean it's piloted by an alien.
Actually, IMHO all UFO's are BullShit and can be explained.
If there actually was a species intelligent enough with proper resources for faster than light travel, do you really think they will come all the way to earth just to Crash in some desert in New Mexico, or buzz around trying to scare people... I think not.
Also, to quote Carl Sagan,
"Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence."
ie. I saw an alien from outerspace, but have no evidence to prove it. This is standard and why I never believe in UFO's.
Okay, then explain to me what an object as bright as a star is that stands still in the sky as if it actually WAS a star for about 5 minutes and then all of the sudden moves within a split second first to the right end of the visible sky, then to the left, to the right again and then passes right above your head in blinding speed before it vanishes behind the tree tops.
If I wasn't a hobby astronomer I would never have noticed the object at first. I only did because it stood directly beneath sirius and I knew that sirius didn't turn into a double star over night.
I also had my doubts till then because I thought that a species has to be veeery advanced technologically to cover the distance between it's homeworld and ours and that if they are why they should be interested in our limited species.
Even it wasn't an UFO controlled by aliens I would really like to know WHAT kind of FO it was and who controlled it. Because it definitely was NOT some reflexion, will o' wisp, lightnig, swamp gas or whatever rediculous explanation the "experts" are usually trying to dismiss such sightings with.
@RavenX:
Could it be that what you saw was a B2?
On the flip-side I was always very suspicious about how exactly engineers actually came up with the idea of shaping planes in the form of a triangle and stealth tech as a whole...
Seems imagination as well as irony are lost arts.
Huh? Maybe I'm a bit slow today. But why irony?
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