UFO's and Aliens. Do they exist? Do you think there's even a chance that there is other intelligent life in our galaxy or universe or do you think we Humans are the only intelligent life in all of creation? These are questions that we as a species, man-kind, have asked since as far as our recorded history goes back. Even Ancient man, with no knowledge of modern science or modern understanding of what "Space" was, would look to the night sky at the twinkling stars and wonder...."Are we truly alone?".
Honestly, I've always thought aliens existed. Whether or not they've actually visited this planet at any point in it's history I don't know and I don't think anyone can truly say one way or the other and have definitive proof. Of course there is probably just as much "proof" that aliens don't exist as there is that they do, but, at least we are now discovering for a Fact that there is or was "some form" of life in the universe outside of the planet Earth. We know from microscopic fossils in martian rocks that at one point millions of years ago there was at the very least Single Celled life on Mars. We found this out back in the late 90's. Didn't hear about it? That's not surprising since I only found out about it because of a 10 second mention on ABC's "World News Tonight" back in 96-97. Today how-ever you can research this for your-self as many papers and articles have been published on the subject. A quick Google Search will lead you to many results such as these:
Meteorite Yields Evidence of Primitive Life on Early Mars Source: www.solarviews.com Article from 1997
Fossil Life in Martian Rock Found in Antarctica ? Source: http://spider.seds.org/spider/Mars/Marsrock/marsrocks.html Article from 1996
Proof of Life in Three Martian Rocks May Come This Year Source: www.popsci.com Article from 2010
This is enough in my eyes to call it "Definitive Proof", they're just waiting on the specific results so they can say it's a fact without a shadow of a doubt, and I respect them for waiting and taking it slow and doing the science the right way. A claim such as this can't be rushed no matter how apparent the results of any "proof" might be.
While I do believe in intelligent life outside of this planet, I'm still a skeptic. I mostly believe in what I can see with my own eyes. What I can feel with my own two hands. I think it's important for anyone doing any Serious research into the matter to be a skeptic and to try to dis-prove or debunk as many fakes as possible. With our advances in computers and video editing and special effects it's easier than ever for the nut-jobs and conspiracy wackos out there to make convincing "proof" on their own and it's people like those that bring a bad ilk to any Serious research into the matter. Sadly there are a lot of fakers and crazy people out there working in both directions of the debate. There are people who make fake videos of UFO's and try to pass them off as real and there are various groups and religious zealots who try to prove that Everything is fake and say that None Of It is real and anyone who believes there is intelligent non-human life in the universe is a moron or a liar.
Worse yet there are many people out there who are terrified of the idea that aliens may exist. Some people are so closed minded that no matter what scientific advances we may make or what we may learn about the universe and life its-self, they will Never believe that alien life exists even if aliens were to land on the White-House lawn and announce to the world that they are real and that they are here. Even if that did happen (which of course it hasn't) there would be a certain percentage of the world's population that would say it was faked, even if the proof was pointing a particle cannon at their head.
I'm about to tell a story I've never told publicly before. I've never told it honestly because I'm a little afraid of what it may make people think in regards to my sanity. If you choose to believe it, that's great. If you choose not to believe it, that's great too. One thing I do know for sure, I know what I saw...
Note: Before I get into the story, keep in mind that I was a kid. I was 13 or 14 years old. I had never done any drugs, didn't smoke cigs, didn't drink, and I wasn't a wild kid with a crazy imagination. I never had an "imaginary friend" at any point and even when I did grow up and start "partying" I've never had a hallucination nor have I ever saw something that I wasn't completely sure was right in front of me (magic tricks aside).
It was the summer of the year that my family moved from Deland in Volusia County out to Lake Mack in Lake County, Florida. I had to go to summer school that year to make up a failing English grade in 7th grade English (long story but basically I got screwed out of the grade I should have received). Because there weren't that many kids in my area going to summer school that year all of us in the neighborhood had to meet down at the corner store which was the only bus-stop for summer school that year. School started at 7 A.M. and was all the way in Leesburg (almost an hour from my house). We kids had to be at the bus-stop at 5:30 A.M. because it was a very long ride all the way to Leesburg from where we were in Lake Mack and there were other students to stop and pick up along the way. I was walking to the bus-stop down a long winding road. It was a normal paved road and there were houses and trailers all over the place. Even though the road was deserted because it was so early in the morning it was still a populated and crowded neighborhood. As I was rounding the bends I noticed all the tall pine trees were swaying back and forth pretty hard like there was about to be a storm, but oddly enough I couldn't feel any wind. I'm not going to say there wasn't any wind, there very well could have been and the currents were too high off the ground for me to feel the wind, but, I didn't actually feel any wind.
I was looking up at the tops of the pine trees when a very Large Triangle came out over the trees. At first I thought it was a helicopter and maybe I was seeing the lights on the ends of the rotors but then two things hit me. First, I couldn't hear Any noise. None what-so-ever. Second, if the lights I saw were on the ends of the rotors they would have been spinning very fast and not been stationary. They were also way too far apart to be rotor blades. The object was at least 3 times as high up as the trees, maybe 4 times as high, and it...was....Massive. I'm talking like the size of a Boeing 747, Massive. I quickly realized there was no way in hell that it was a helicopter. There were no flashing lights on it. They were on steadily. There were four lights in total. One larger light in the center and three more slightly smaller lights, one at each tip of the Triangle. I had seen plenty of helicopters up close, even military ones as I've lived close to Deland Airport for most of my time in Deland and seen plenty of air shows and air planes and helicopters first hand. I've seen both the Apache and the smaller Cobra Attack Chopper that it shares it's design with. It's also of note that out in Lake Mack in Lake County we were technically on the out-skirts of the Ocala National Forrest. The army had a bombing range on the far edge of the forrest and at least 3 or 4 times a year you could hear the bombs being dropped and all you had to do was go outside when the planes or helicopters were flying over-head to see what vehicles were doing the bombing. Lake Mack was right underneath their flight path for a long time even though the bombing range its-self was a good 60 or 70 miles away.
Anyway, when I realized just what it was I was looking at....well, I'm not ashamed to admit I got scared and started running for the bus-stop. I didn't look back and I didn't slow down. When I finally got to the point where I could see the store and see the other kids through the darkness standing under the street light at the store I stopped running. I didn't want the other kids thinking I was too scared to walk to the bus-stop in the dark, which I wasn't. I've never been afraid of the dark, not even as a small child. At that point when I stopped running I took the time to look behind me. Not surprisingly I didn't see anything. Nothing. No ship, no Triangle, no wind, and the trees were as still as could be since there was no wind.
I'm not gonna say I know for sure that it was aliens. I don't and to surmise that with no further evidence would be kinda stupid in my eyes. What I do know is that I have no idea what it was and it WASN'T a conventional aircraft. I honestly don't know what It was, but I do know I have Never seen Anything like It nor have I since. That one experience has led me to believe in intelligent life outside of this planet. I can't say it Was aliens. I can say I Think it was, because I have no other explanation for it.
So.....what do YOU believe? Do YOU think we're alone in the universe? Or do YOU think there is far more out there then we could ever dream is possible?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. I don't know if ETs visit us now, but the evidence of ETs in our past is pretty compelling. I sure hope that all this comes out in our lifetime.
Perhaps you should listen to what they say. The only people trolling in this thread are those who think ETs are here and the government is covering it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
Does this describe what you saw? It's usually a system of flares or something like that..
I once saw a bright light light dancing in tiny circles and darting around the sky.. Dunno what that was.
That pic on the right hand side, the "artist's concept", does indeed look pretty close to what I remember seeing. This wasn't flares though, it was way too low to the ground and it was massive. I can see where seeing a line of flares and thinking they are lights would indeed increase the size of the object a person thinks they are seeing though. This thing was only 3 or 4 times the height of the trees off the ground and I could see definition on the edges. I could see where the body of the craft was blocking out the stars that should have been behind it. I do admit it could have "appeared" larger than it was simply because it was so close to the ground. I don't remember any running lights though or any lights at all except for the big one in the center and the three smaller ones one at each point. It was a long time ago when I saw it though. I'm 32 now and I was 13 or 14 then. The more I look back on it now the more I wish I wouldn't have gotten scared and hauled ass...lol.
Heh, yeah...very true.
I have. And they didn't say what you said they said.
Neither speakers made any predictions about anything.
What did I say they said?
They claimed that the ETs would 'take action', whatever that means, if we (the government) doesn't stop the 'war' against them.
But my point wasn't about this one nutter only, it's about the never ending stream of garbage these conspiracy idiots spew. You can hear it on the radio, you can see it on TV, it's been the same song and dance from them for decades, and guess what? Nothing has happened. So you can believe that the government has all of this alien technology (which is what is claimed in this video) and has had it for the past 50 years, and no one has ever seen it, even though the government is apparently using it to wage a war against the 'visitors', if you want to.
I'll stick with the intelligent position that it's just more conspiracy theory nonsense which is great to sell books and ads from charlatans like Alex Jones or Art Bell.
That's a pretty meek "prediction", where essentially he's saying if you attack UFOs they might try and defend themselves. There certainly was no mention of "alien invasions" or any kinds of prophetic nonsense. In fact, I'd say the proposition of UFOs defending themselves is a logical statement if one accepts they are real. Taking this statement to mean "imminent alien invasion" is hyperbolic at best.
Then save your comments for people who spew prophetic nonsense about UFOs. He's not Alex Jones or Art Bell, whoever those guys are. He seems fairly sincere in his beliefs, and isn't trying to make dramatic prophecies or what's going to happen on 2012. Personally, I almost never hear about UFOs on TV or radio anymore, not recently anyway.
It's aggravating when people are always trying paint others as insane when it's clear that they aren't even trying to listen to them. Paul Hellyer has a position you think is wrong. He isn't the entire UFO enthusiast community. Learn the distinction.
Paul Hellyer has a position I know is wrong, and I think is insane, he paints himself, he doesn't need my help with that.
If you listen to what he is actually saying you will understand that he claims elements of the US government are at war with the visitors, and that it's only a matter of time before the visitors retaliate (justifiably in his mind one imagines). Perhaps you quibble over weather or not to call that a 'prediction', it matters little if the issue is semantics though.
If you think he is outside of the mainstream UFO enthusiast community then apparently you don't pay much attention to it. No knock on you, it's really not a community worth paying much attention to, however, I find some amusement value in it, and given that I live roughly 2 hours from Roswell I get my share of local news on the idiocy which occasionally happens there. Of course I don't blame the people of Roswell, I applaud them for making that otherwise nondescript town a tourist attraction, and for taking the money of people who are too eager to believe anything about ETs and UFOs.
PT Barnum definitely has it right.
Well, I see your position there. I don't think either Will nor I however subscribe to those nut job crazies idea's. I don't think aliens are at war with a secret government organization or any crazy shit like that. As I said in a earlier post in this thread I believe in what I can see with my own eyes and touch with my own hands. When it comes to listening to any news or reports on the matter of aliens, whether it comes from the crazy crack pots or it comes from someone with a respected career like Edgar Mitchelle, all of it needs to be taken with a rather large grain of salt until any of it can be proved. Edgar Mitchelle says the government has *known about* alien life since before we went to the moon. He hasn't said anything off the wall or crazy that I know of and if he did I'd probably be the first to tell him he's a f'kin loony toon. With as respected a career as he's had though I really don't see what his motivations would be for lying to a public that has looked up to him for over 50 years. He's not selling anything or trying to make any money. To my knowledge all he's done is try to get the government to come out and have full disclosure of what they know.
I DO believe, wholeheartedly, that the governments of the world know a lot more about alien life then they are letting on. The proof is in the "Freedom of Information Act" that is supposed to release ALL government information on everything they do after so many years pass and the information becomes de-classified. Even today though when people request records (de-classified records even) that by the time they reach the hands of the people who requested the records large parts of things are blacked out and can't be read. Now, if this stuff is de-classified and supposed to be accessible through the Freedom of Information act how come things are still being covered up? It can't be a matter of national defense after all these years. What are they hiding? They're obviously hiding something or the pages wouldn't still be covered up or blacked out.
To make a long story short, anyone who's doing any kind of serious research into the matter of the possibility of alien life needs to have some common sense. Obviously you can't believe everything you hear or read on the matter because there ARE a bunch of nut job people out there and what's worse is there are a bunch of low life's who will blatantly make shit up to pray on the gullible who will believe anything on the matter simply because they want to believe that badly. It's those people that make Anyone who believes in aliens look bad. Those are the crazies in the community. More and more people though are learning to ignore the obvious crazies in the popular UFO culture. There are always going to be crazies out there that think aliens are living among us and taking over the world and a bunch of other crazy shit like that. Anyone with half a brain though simply ignores them, as well they should.
Never believe anything you 'hear' and only believe half of what you 'see'.
Trick is to choose the right 'half'....
"Proof is in the pudding" as the saying goes. There isn't any concrete proof one way or the other. I am of the mind that seeing is believing but ... there is one thing I will say...just because you can't see a thing doesn't mean it isn't there. Want proof...go back to elementary school when you first learned about the periodic table. You can't see without the 'unaided eye' all the elements that compose nature. They are there and they are very real. As for a government cover-up......that much is obvious. The Freedom of Information Act was put up to placate the people, throw them a bone as it were, not to divulge what Uncle Sam doesn't want you to know. It was said many times already and not just here...the UFO phenomenon is a good deal for Uncle Sam as it keeps your mind on what may or not be real and away from what 'really' is. Think about it. What doesn't he want you to know. Listen to more of what he's not saying as opposed to what he is.
UFOs are exactly that, flying objects which are unidentified. They are not aliens.
Reality check: why would hundreds of aliens travel dozens of light years at an unimaginable cost just to fly around looking mysterious?
Must be something in the water.
Maybe they are working for the Google map team.
The probability that the universe contains life is probably high, the only way to confirm it is to actually see other life, until then there is only wild speculation. There is in fact a formula, but no values to put into it.
Number of galaxies * avg number of solar systems per galaxy * what percentage of solar systems contain planets * what percantage of planets lie within the habitable range * chance of habitable planets bearing life ... it is perfectly correct in math, but we have no concrete data for which to use it. Although the first 2 values reach further than we might think, the others are a lot less than we think at the moment. But every time we see a solar system with a planet the chances of life in the universe go up.
As for the size of the universe:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Deep_Field, empty space... yeah right.
Mars is smaller than the earth, this means that it will have caused less volcanic activity in its creation, yet still retianed its atmosphere for a while. This was before the earth's volcanic period ended. Mars has in fact had a longer time than the earth to "create life". Mars has almost certainly had oceans, long before the earth had. It is from a mathematical point, more likely that mars would evolve life than the earth. Isn't that somehting to think about?
But Mars became cold, and eventually lonely, since it couldn't retain its magnetic field which kept away the solar winds. The atmosphere was literally blown away. Mars's life simply died. The interesting thing to note is that the Earth had most likely cooled by this time. And some bacteria can survive space travel and plenty of heat. So it is possible that an asteroid of some proportion hit Mars and sent a piece of Mars flying inwards, onto earth. And if it landed in an ocean, the heat would not be great enough to obliterate the projectile... It is perfectly possible life originated from Mars. We could very well be the martians, invading earth.
About humans being violence loving idiots who would any day destroy themselves... is just not what I think. We are not inherently violent, less in fact than most animals able to do violence. Few other animals obey without fighting first, and no animals show compassion and mercy the way we do. We are not more violent, we are just better at doing damage. If every cat was able to fire off nukes, would there be a terror balance or a world devastation?
Another light on this matter is as some have partly said, genetic drive, or "darwinism" if it clarifies. Our sniper rifles are just advanced ways to compete for the resources. Every animals fight in one way or another for food, space, hierarchy, and/or females. If a life arrived in a world where resources were infinite, and competition was non-existent, they would in fact have little reason or genetic drive for intelligence. In a way, violence is required for sentience to be achieved.
If we meet aliens, it is very likely they are equally violent, or perhaps even more violent than us, rather than being the all-knowing pacifists some would believe.
Regarding conspiracies, I like south park's the most.
***SPOILER***
The conspiracy is a conspiracy since the government want the people to think they have the power. It is in fact the government who runs all the conspiracy sites...
*** END SPOILER ***
Raven X sums up my perspective pretty well, and I can't really argue that the UFO community isn't filled with a lot of crazies and con-artists. However, it's really not just semantics, just in the same way putting words into someone's mouth is not just semantics. Now, I don't know much about Hellyer apart from the one speech he made, and what "the aliens may retaliate" means I do not know. But Hellyer is a high-ranking official saying at the very least interesting things, and simplifying it to "the aliens haven't invaded yet so he must be wrong" is sort of a disservice. He's not talking about an alien invasion.
In any case, until all of the UFO papers are unclassified we'll never really know what's going on.
The 'semantics' was only applied to our disagreement (apparent) about whether he made a prediction or not.
But just because Hellyer is (or was) a high ranking official means what exactly? Sara Palin also was a high ranking official. Though I freely admit to know nothing of her position on aliens, though I imagine it would be highly entertaining to hear her express it
My 'disservice' to Hellyers comments is based off of the fact that he is only the most recent (well by this threads standards) to make the claim. It's not a new claim, it's decades old afterall. You'd think that if there really were a secret war (as he claims) that had been ongoing for decades something of it would have leaked out by now.
Of course the nutters (of whom I do not think you are one) will be quick to point out every single unexplained event anywhere in the world and claim it as evidence of this 'war' and world government conspiracies.
My personal opinion on the UFO papers is that there is nothing of interest in them, they instead show the government wasting all manner of time and money chasing rabbits down holes, and releasing that information would prove too embarrassing. Of course that opinion is based on nothing substantive either, yet it also provides a plausible reason for the governments unwillingness to 'come clean' on this matter. It's also got something else going for it, and that's that the US government (at least) is pretty good at throwing time and money away on subjects or research of matters utterly ridiculous. I would recommend taking a look at the book 'Imaginary Weapons' to see some of what I mean by this.
Then again you can simply look at the sheer lunacy of the Pentagons spending habbits and realize that while everything is probably documented somewhere, many people would be very upset if any of it ever got out.
Sara Palin definitely DOES NOT believe in aliens of any extraterrestrial form. She's literally gone on the record as saying "Dinosaur bones were planted in the Earth by Satan to fool mankind into believing in the *theory* of evolution."...
If anyone in any form of government on the Earth is a f'kin nut job...it's her.
LoL
Seriously, google that, you'll see.
Well. I see my premise was correct. Any discussion of UFO's will eventually get to Government/politics/conspiracy theories and Sarah Palin.
Good grief. Momma Grizzlies on you, Raven X.
You know who's thoughts I'd really like to hear on this subject? Frogboy's!! Possibly Boogie's as well. Come on guys, I know you're watching this thread. Let us know, what do You think? I already know Jafo's thoughts on the matter.
Yes. no need for me to google it, it's why I mentioned her in the first place. Simply being in the government in no way makes ones views more valid. Especially when its on a subject like this one.
That's true and I completely agree. Just because someone is in a position of power it doesn't automatically make everything they say true nor correct. On the other hand though, as with many things in life, I think taking someone at their word needs to go on a person to person basis. I wouldn't believe Sarah Palin if she said the sky was blue and grass was green. I Would believe Edgar Mitchelle even if he said the Aliens had hard wired his brain and built a tiny space shape that lives in his rectum and only comes out at night to do surveillance on humans... Ok, seriously I nor anyone else would believe that if they were sane, but in my eyes, Edgar Mitchelle, having been an astronaut and a scientists and a pilot, gets a whole shit load of credit in my eyes because of his distinguished career. The only thing Sarah Palin has ever done in my eyes is be a mouthy, crazy, psychopath. One earned respect and admiration through years and years of distinguished service to his country and even the world while the other earned nothing but people seeing her as a whack job. Some people are more credible than others. I definitely agree though that not everything that anyone says can be bought as "the truth" all the time, especially if those people happen to be in leadership roles or positions of power.
Maybe they are working for the Google map team
So that's why this thing has been hovering over my place over the last few months... Google is using alien technology to pry into what bad stuff I'm going to say about them next.
I thought the disappearance of the Google Maps car from out front was too good to be true.
As for ET's and UFO's, well yeah, it would be arrogant of us to thing that we are the only intelligent life in the entire universe... and why couldn't other civilisations from other worlds be more advanced than we are? Just because we haven't conquered the mystery of interstellar travel, doesn't mean to say they haven't.
Well, I think we've come to the point where we just have different perspectives that can't be proven or disproven. I try personally try to take arguments seriously even if they seem ridiculous. That doesn't necessarily mean I believe them, I simply give people the benefit of the doubt.
If any conspiracies were to exist, UFOs coming to Earth are high on my list of believability, below conscious class warfare and above God burying dinosaur bones.
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