UFO's and Aliens. Do they exist? Do you think there's even a chance that there is other intelligent life in our galaxy or universe or do you think we Humans are the only intelligent life in all of creation? These are questions that we as a species, man-kind, have asked since as far as our recorded history goes back. Even Ancient man, with no knowledge of modern science or modern understanding of what "Space" was, would look to the night sky at the twinkling stars and wonder...."Are we truly alone?".
Honestly, I've always thought aliens existed. Whether or not they've actually visited this planet at any point in it's history I don't know and I don't think anyone can truly say one way or the other and have definitive proof. Of course there is probably just as much "proof" that aliens don't exist as there is that they do, but, at least we are now discovering for a Fact that there is or was "some form" of life in the universe outside of the planet Earth. We know from microscopic fossils in martian rocks that at one point millions of years ago there was at the very least Single Celled life on Mars. We found this out back in the late 90's. Didn't hear about it? That's not surprising since I only found out about it because of a 10 second mention on ABC's "World News Tonight" back in 96-97. Today how-ever you can research this for your-self as many papers and articles have been published on the subject. A quick Google Search will lead you to many results such as these:
Meteorite Yields Evidence of Primitive Life on Early Mars Source: www.solarviews.com Article from 1997
Fossil Life in Martian Rock Found in Antarctica ? Source: http://spider.seds.org/spider/Mars/Marsrock/marsrocks.html Article from 1996
Proof of Life in Three Martian Rocks May Come This Year Source: www.popsci.com Article from 2010
This is enough in my eyes to call it "Definitive Proof", they're just waiting on the specific results so they can say it's a fact without a shadow of a doubt, and I respect them for waiting and taking it slow and doing the science the right way. A claim such as this can't be rushed no matter how apparent the results of any "proof" might be.
While I do believe in intelligent life outside of this planet, I'm still a skeptic. I mostly believe in what I can see with my own eyes. What I can feel with my own two hands. I think it's important for anyone doing any Serious research into the matter to be a skeptic and to try to dis-prove or debunk as many fakes as possible. With our advances in computers and video editing and special effects it's easier than ever for the nut-jobs and conspiracy wackos out there to make convincing "proof" on their own and it's people like those that bring a bad ilk to any Serious research into the matter. Sadly there are a lot of fakers and crazy people out there working in both directions of the debate. There are people who make fake videos of UFO's and try to pass them off as real and there are various groups and religious zealots who try to prove that Everything is fake and say that None Of It is real and anyone who believes there is intelligent non-human life in the universe is a moron or a liar.
Worse yet there are many people out there who are terrified of the idea that aliens may exist. Some people are so closed minded that no matter what scientific advances we may make or what we may learn about the universe and life its-self, they will Never believe that alien life exists even if aliens were to land on the White-House lawn and announce to the world that they are real and that they are here. Even if that did happen (which of course it hasn't) there would be a certain percentage of the world's population that would say it was faked, even if the proof was pointing a particle cannon at their head.
I'm about to tell a story I've never told publicly before. I've never told it honestly because I'm a little afraid of what it may make people think in regards to my sanity. If you choose to believe it, that's great. If you choose not to believe it, that's great too. One thing I do know for sure, I know what I saw...
Note: Before I get into the story, keep in mind that I was a kid. I was 13 or 14 years old. I had never done any drugs, didn't smoke cigs, didn't drink, and I wasn't a wild kid with a crazy imagination. I never had an "imaginary friend" at any point and even when I did grow up and start "partying" I've never had a hallucination nor have I ever saw something that I wasn't completely sure was right in front of me (magic tricks aside).
It was the summer of the year that my family moved from Deland in Volusia County out to Lake Mack in Lake County, Florida. I had to go to summer school that year to make up a failing English grade in 7th grade English (long story but basically I got screwed out of the grade I should have received). Because there weren't that many kids in my area going to summer school that year all of us in the neighborhood had to meet down at the corner store which was the only bus-stop for summer school that year. School started at 7 A.M. and was all the way in Leesburg (almost an hour from my house). We kids had to be at the bus-stop at 5:30 A.M. because it was a very long ride all the way to Leesburg from where we were in Lake Mack and there were other students to stop and pick up along the way. I was walking to the bus-stop down a long winding road. It was a normal paved road and there were houses and trailers all over the place. Even though the road was deserted because it was so early in the morning it was still a populated and crowded neighborhood. As I was rounding the bends I noticed all the tall pine trees were swaying back and forth pretty hard like there was about to be a storm, but oddly enough I couldn't feel any wind. I'm not going to say there wasn't any wind, there very well could have been and the currents were too high off the ground for me to feel the wind, but, I didn't actually feel any wind.
I was looking up at the tops of the pine trees when a very Large Triangle came out over the trees. At first I thought it was a helicopter and maybe I was seeing the lights on the ends of the rotors but then two things hit me. First, I couldn't hear Any noise. None what-so-ever. Second, if the lights I saw were on the ends of the rotors they would have been spinning very fast and not been stationary. They were also way too far apart to be rotor blades. The object was at least 3 times as high up as the trees, maybe 4 times as high, and it...was....Massive. I'm talking like the size of a Boeing 747, Massive. I quickly realized there was no way in hell that it was a helicopter. There were no flashing lights on it. They were on steadily. There were four lights in total. One larger light in the center and three more slightly smaller lights, one at each tip of the Triangle. I had seen plenty of helicopters up close, even military ones as I've lived close to Deland Airport for most of my time in Deland and seen plenty of air shows and air planes and helicopters first hand. I've seen both the Apache and the smaller Cobra Attack Chopper that it shares it's design with. It's also of note that out in Lake Mack in Lake County we were technically on the out-skirts of the Ocala National Forrest. The army had a bombing range on the far edge of the forrest and at least 3 or 4 times a year you could hear the bombs being dropped and all you had to do was go outside when the planes or helicopters were flying over-head to see what vehicles were doing the bombing. Lake Mack was right underneath their flight path for a long time even though the bombing range its-self was a good 60 or 70 miles away.
Anyway, when I realized just what it was I was looking at....well, I'm not ashamed to admit I got scared and started running for the bus-stop. I didn't look back and I didn't slow down. When I finally got to the point where I could see the store and see the other kids through the darkness standing under the street light at the store I stopped running. I didn't want the other kids thinking I was too scared to walk to the bus-stop in the dark, which I wasn't. I've never been afraid of the dark, not even as a small child. At that point when I stopped running I took the time to look behind me. Not surprisingly I didn't see anything. Nothing. No ship, no Triangle, no wind, and the trees were as still as could be since there was no wind.
I'm not gonna say I know for sure that it was aliens. I don't and to surmise that with no further evidence would be kinda stupid in my eyes. What I do know is that I have no idea what it was and it WASN'T a conventional aircraft. I honestly don't know what It was, but I do know I have Never seen Anything like It nor have I since. That one experience has led me to believe in intelligent life outside of this planet. I can't say it Was aliens. I can say I Think it was, because I have no other explanation for it.
So.....what do YOU believe? Do YOU think we're alone in the universe? Or do YOU think there is far more out there then we could ever dream is possible?
I think, given the talk of conspiracy theories, the following is appropriate :
Sorry for the double post, but I think this is also fitting :
Brilliant.
sounds like a good idea! already found mine
Is that the one Augustus chewed on before he realised he'd found it?
Where is RavenX btw? Haven't heard from the guy in a while (but then it could just be me), and I'm hoping he's feeling OK this Christmas season. Anyone have news?
He's probably off somewhere weeping for the future of mankind...
Or administering it.
Pyramids were built by humans. Simple as that. As to the mystery as how it was done who cares. Pyramids being built in a straight line isn't hard to do if you use constellations as your guide. All it took to build anything in a straight line was some very simple tools from stakes with strings to boards in an "X" configuration and you looked at something through the meeting point of the two sticks.(That was in reply to someone implying that aliens had to help draw a line to build the pyramids in a straight line)
Just because people lived 4000 yrs ago doesn't mean they were stupid. In fact I would say they were just as intelligent as we are now if not more.
As to the question about "ET" life the universe why not. We are here so it stands to reason in the trillions of galaxies made up of trillions of stars that even a 1% chance of intelligent life would mean millions of different intelligent life forms out there. I am not golly enough to believe we are the only intelligent life forms out there but I can't provide proof that there is and no one can provide proof that there aren't.
There are many things out there which are beyond our ability to grasp and there will always be theories and science has a long way to go before man can travel through the stars to distant galaxies.
Getting cattle-probed.? omg
That about sums it up. Common sense prevails.
I am not golly enough to believe we are the only intelligent life forms out there but I can't provide proof that there is and no one can provide proof that there aren't.That about sums it up. Common sense prevails.
Simple and yet mysteriously unknown? Sounds like a contradiction. Given our knowledge of the technological and industrial capabilities of that ancient civilization, I'd say it's more than tantamount to an actual miracle. Not so clear cut in fact, but common sense nonetheless.
The premise for there being alien life on other planets is based on the theory that life on Earth resulted from a congruence of ultra-rare conditions, and not by any design. The extrapolation of that theory is that all forms of life on Earth are evolved from the resulting microbe(s), by virtue of countless random genetic mutations advantageous to survival, and the element of luck in natural selection. And so we say, if it could happen here, surely it could also have occurred on at least one of the trillions of planets in our universe, or even multi-verse! Law of Averages right?
One of the problems with that is, we don't actually know exactly how life originally came to be. The evidence of which is that we cannot take non-living matter and cause it to become a living entity. And so that remains an unproven theory. The theory of evolution itself, whilst widely accepted (not in small part due to it being incorporated into education curriculums across the world while still unproven), has had more than it's fair share of technical issues. So much so that continued adherence to it has caused it to be branded 'the religion of scientists', as work on the theory is based on the faith that it will eventually prove true.
What of the question that science does not or cannot ask based on its axioms? The elephant in the room if you will. I find that when supposing from atop the Jenga stack, it is much safer to knock it all down first and then begin at the beginning. The Big Bang that caused an automated process of incalculable complexity. What caused it, and more important still, where did all that energy/matter come from? Well, some people say, I don't know, some people say it doesn't matter, other people say God.
Let's examine these answers. 'I don't know' is an honest one, but really means you haven't put much thought into it, compared to let's say, sex.
'It doesn't matter' is typically a cop out. If this question does not matter, then nothing else does.
'God' begs the question, which or whose God? Yours or mine? The Jewish, Christian/Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Pantheist, etc.. God? This is problematic, as it places unacceptable restrictions on the investigation via pre-conceived notions of what should be, influencing the impartialness, mostly due to the tendency to try to adhere to doctrine.
So, regarding matter/energy, what are the possible ways it could have come into existence? Was it always there, or did it create itself, or was it created by another entity? There is no other possible consideration at this point, so let's go through these.
1. Has matter/energy always existed?
In short, no. The nature of it, is that it is always in motion, always subject to cause and effect. To say that energy/matter has always existed is to say that a chain of causality has occurred without ever being initially caused.
2. Did matter create itself?
Again no. That which is not, cannot. Simple enough.
3. Was it created by another entity (i.e. something not of matter)?
Now generally, it is poor logic to assert something as fact as a result of certain other assertions being untrue. The exception to this rule is the process of elimination. When you have eliminated all possibilities but one, then the last remaining possibility must in some way be true if the outcome is observable. Meaning to say, there must be a creator, as there is creation.
The most common issue or rebuff to this statement is the classic question: Who then created the creator? We speak of cause and effect, as all things in our universe, and the universe itself are subject to it indiscriminantly and without exception. We know this because it is observable through the properties of matter. However, and you might have guessed, we cannot by necessity apply this same restriction to the creator, as we have no verifiable witness to the properties of the creator (being not of matter), and so we cannot subject the creator to cause and effect as we do with matter, thus rendering the question invalid within the parameters.
So, after eliminating all that cannot be, we are left with what must be based on what undeniably is. That is, we exist, and so we must have come into existence, with the only possible explanation being that we were created by an entity that is not subject to cause and effect, but rather the initiator of it. To deny this is to deny your own existence (read: a pointless exercise).
Now knowing that the universe was created by design, could there be life on other planets? You're still no closer to knowing!
Seriously though, there is far more to this than what I have divulged so far, and much more can be extrapolated still. Though if you were to ask me now if I believe there is alien life on other planets, based on what I have discovered I would say almost certainly not. Now, parallel instances of Earth with human and animal life, that I would say is far far more likely.
"1. Has matter/energy always existed?
In short, no."
Pretty-well everything in #363 turns to crap if assumption and conjecture is removed.
Why "no"?
In short or in long....
Coherency please? Is there a question somewhere in there?
Yes, in dynamic equilibrium.
"Coherency please? Is there a question somewhere in there?"
Questions tend to have a "?" after them....so 'coherency' is fine....
Not entirely true. There have been experiments that replicated the conditions of early Earth. Most of the amino acids required for life can occur naturally in said conditions. Other experiments have shown that in the same conditions membranes similar to those of present day cells can form. Two (at least) of the most important building blocks for life could have occured naturally. The fact that scientists have not yet completely created life does not mean the theory is wrong or completely incorrect. Proper science takes time, and these are relatively recent discoveries.
Do tell; what exactly are these "technical issues?" And who is calling it "the religion of scientists?" The only people I've ever heard make such claims are, in fact, creationists, and have something to gain by making evolution look faith-based.
Your problem here is that there are more possibilities as to the creation of matter and/or energy than just the three you are considering, and therefore you cannot draw a final conclusion that there is a creator of some sort. It is arrogant to assume that only those three possiblities exist, and arrogant to assume that you can proove or disproove them. How can you possibly say with anything close to 100% certainty that matter and energy have not always existed? Maybe I'm wrong, and I intend no offense by saying this, but I doubt you have the necessary qualifications in physics to speak with authority about such things.
That sounds wonderful.
But I don't see how it would account for causality. Meaning, the events that caused me to type these words, and the events that caused those events and so on and so forth, tracing the chains of causality right back to.....? If something that is subject to causality didn't begin, then how does it exist?
So, true until proven true? The fact that life has not been recreated means that the theory is thus far unproven. Proper science does indeed take time, but not every theory pans out, and science does eventually show this in its own time.
I'm not going to get into the inner workings of evolution, and the current scientific problems with the theory. It's all just a Google away anyway, and largely relates to the gaps in evidence, and the incomplete working theory among other things. Suffice it to say, it is scientific theory, and not scientific fact. As for who calls it the 'religion of scientists', the 'who' doesn't matter. What matters is if it applies. Not to say that it is a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with believing in something and working at it, hoping that it will all add up.
That's just the thing though. I'm not meaning to sound arrogant, but there really is no other plausible consideration. Given what we know regarding the laws of thermodynamics, and taking causality into account, you cannot get around it. Everything that is happening right now is part of a long chain of events. Events that have been caused by events that were caused by events, etc.. If you trace these links back, and yet say that they never began but have always been, then you are denying causality, and denying that every effect has a cause.
Don't get me wrong, I know there are plenty of theories around, and I've heard some really interesting and colourful ones. But none of these can be put into practice or applied in reality given the known laws of the universe. I'm not going to pretend to be a physicist. I did study physics in senior years and as part of my degree, and I have a great interest in it (it's my favourite of the sciences). Also, I didn't simply sit here and think all of this up as I was typing it. This is something I have studied and have written on at length, and something that I am still researching.
Could I be wrong? I always leave room for such real possibilities. But if you think there is another plausible consideration, or you think you can fault the logic I used to reach my conclusion, then it would seriously be great if you would point it out to me, as personally, I'd rather learn and know something than falsely perceive myself as being correct.
If there is something you would like clarification on, or a point of contention, please state the contrary view or refutation and I will be happy to oblige with either a counter-argument or a confession of error, depending.
Istari ... are you a bot or a human?
Why is it you cannot answer a simple question?
That is the question....if you don't understand what that refers to then perhaps you are too busy randomly spouting unsubstantiated drivel.... plagiarised from elsewhere.
Re-read your OWN post #363.
Then answer.... Why "no"?
What the heck...I take pity on you....save you the pain of regugitation...Just reread my subsequent post...the one quoting you....that you claim is incoherent.
It's number #364.
The incoherent content within said post is your quote. It's the bit in the " " ..... because IE9 does not do quotes on this forum [yet].
Fundamental flaws/assumptions in a hypothesis.... from the outset will fuck totally with an outcome....
Simple and yet mysteriously unknown? Sounds like a contradiction. Given our knowledge of the technological and industrial capabilities of that ancient civilization, I'd say it's more than tantamount to an actual miracle. Not so clear cut in fact, but common sense nonetheless. No the simple part was referring to the Egyptians building the pyramids. We know they built them and in what time frame and for who. How they built them is currently a debate and isn't a miracle.
The problem is "our knowledge" is very poor concerning the great civilizations. We now have one Dr. Zahi Hawass saying the pyramids were built without any slaves of any kind in 20 yrs by a group of upper caste individuals who were craftsman and numbered about 20,000 people. Now what he says is a miracle.
We will eventually find out when we discover more tombs and hieroglyphic writings.
It wouldn't in everyday reasoning. However, I don't happen to ascribe to causality except in limited cases. Chaos Theory is more interesting. Perhaps the Universe is simply an epiphenomenon or, perhaps a byproduct of another process.Who knows? It really matters little.
Causality/Solipsism and Charles Bishop Berkley are very limited.
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