You had me, when I read about Elemental's planned features
You had me, when I learned about this "MoM reimagining"
You had me, when I knew about the feedback-driven development
You had me, when I read about the continuous improvements made on released software
You had me, when I saw the result of the art direction choices
And then you LOST me..
when I saw the details about the activation procedure.
Sorry guys, this is just wrong.
I know piracy is a big issue and all, but such requirements only encourage it, imho.
If I buy something, I want to be able to do what I want with it (except reproducing it, of course).
If I have an obsessive relationship with the whole OS-reinizialization thing, I don't want to DEPEND on the company's kindness every time I intend to re-use something I already own.
I still have MoM, and I tell you, years and years later I DO NOT have to contact and BEG some non-existent company to activate it and play it, since I can do as I please with it.
Too bad really. I was on my way to recharge my prepaid card (which is something I don't use very often really).
Then again, if you implement Nightshade as a terrain bonus, I guess I could capitulate, but that doesn't change my point. You were pitch perfect until that last detail, which is utterly unfair to the customer (at least one like me)
You might not be alive in 20 years...
I mean, I understand planning for the future, but 20 years from now...for a video game? Really?
This guy is ridiculous if he's complaining about Stardock DRM and update procedures.
by 2038 activating my games will be the least of my worries
Thanx for getting it, pal If that's how it works, then it's ok. But, you'll have to hand it to me that it's not very clearly stated anywhere (actually the opposite is).
As I said, the issue is mostly psychological. I'm a guy who likes things his way.
So how did you install Windows XP? Isn't it possible Microsoft will be bankrupt in 20 years time, or simply do not permit activations of the OS? The OS will be 30 years old by then!
Well it's an OS. It's much more likely to survive one way or another. I do have a DOS emulator for MoM.
So, you must not play any games these days, right? Almost everything has a one time online activation now.
I only just recently bought a new PC with a 3D accelerator. The last game I seriously played was Baldur's Gate II.
I guess you're right, I'm getting old and stuff...
I hoped for a new Alpha Centauri in all these years, but a new MoM could be almost as good.
Patches are an essential part of any software though.
I don't recall insulting you, mister. But you can picture me as a stupid person, if it makes you feel better.
It was just an example to show what I mean by saying "I don't want to depend..."
Don't you have any personal quirks or fixations? I am a control freak, I have my methods, I keep my things organized and seemingly this whole online activation trend clashes with that. Seems like I'll have to accept it or leave gaming again. I don't know, I guess I could try with this digital download after all, of course we're not talking about millions, but I'd certainly be ready to pay more for the product if it were provided the way it should be supposed to...
Then you know how you are required to have the media in the drive at game launch for both BG and BGII. You may not have realized it, but that is because SecuROM is used to protect that game, at least on one distribution (e.g., the 4-in-1 boxset that I have). I run a drive emulator to bypass that, but it takes up several GB of disk space to do this, since I'm not a fan of cracked .EXEs.
So to continue with the "what if...?" scenarios you keep arguing, what if your disk gets a scratch? Well, according to BioWare, you will need to repurchase the game.
If you buy the disk version of Elemental, you just download from Impulse if your media is damaged and you need to reinstall or install on another computer.
As for patches - this was mentioned but you've brought it up again I guess because you missed the response - go ahead and patch, then uninstall Impulse.
Or leave Impulse installed and disable the auto-run at windows start options for Impulse and the Impulse Now system tray applet. Then just run Impulse when/if you read of a new patch, get the update and shut it down again. Functionally, this is exactly the same as downloading a stand-alone patch installer executable each time you need to patch a disk-based game and a step or two better than other digital distribution options (e.g., Steam, D2D).
Impulse isn't perfect, and I'm sure GOO DRM will have some issues not-as-yet predicted, but it isn't as bad as you are striving to make it seem.
I really can't understand why people don't. I mean as software goes, you'll probably get a heck of a lot of hours use out of it the money it costs for the standard edition . Then again, you can always use Linux. Or dual-boot. Or Mac OS X (though then you Would have to get a Mac. eww.)
Sure.
But I also understand that life/companies/other people have no obligations to submit to my quirks and "what should be" doesn't mean "what matches my own personal quirks". I don't rant about how things should match what I think they "should" be, I don't call a company "wrong" because they aren't going the route I remember the 'good ole days' use to be (like someone said, there's been DRM for ages, the term just got in-vogue lately), and I certainly won't care them so far to totally abandon a hobby. Yeah, I don't like a lot of DRM, but I think about all the hours, days, years of enjoyment gaming, even in it's modern faux-piracy-stopping incarnation has given me and I'd be loathe to miss out on it if I had it to do over again.
Flexibility is the best adaptation nature has provided us humans. I'd think people should utilize it. Quirks or otherwise.
It also doesn't help that Elemental has NO DRM and yet you're still complaining because it's not exactly 100% perfectly align to your own standards (Why do I need to have Impulse to download a patch?). When there's FAR worse and invasive DRM out there - it really comes off as just whining. Because it could be a whole lot worse. Plus, what Elemental/Impulse has is actually as much a convenience as it is anything else, especially since it's not even needed to run the game.
When I look at the potential in Elemental, *even now in it's beta state*, I can't see letting Impulse being needed for the brief time to download a patch as negating all that Elemental looks like it can provide now and will provide on release and beyond with future patches.
And like Aesir Raising said - just start it, get the patch, close it. Heck, that's what I've done during Beta. Open it to get the Beta update, then close it when it's done. Yeah, I know, that still goes against your quirks, but...life won't always align with them. Sometimes adapting vs fighting is a better strategy.
quoted for truth... the end result is OP's expectations / concerns means they will be playing darn few (if any) modern release's.. Impulse is only the delivery method for the patches..
1) you already have access to impulse its the same as the forum account.
2) Impulse is no more invasive then the web browser software your using to read this.. requires internet access and you be logged in.
3) after you download patches turn impulse off and do not open until/unless you need it again..
Sorry but to me your fears and issues still make you seem a tad trollish at least to me...
Yea ... you only need to be online IF your patching, and can be offline while using the patch ... and apparantly can even save the patched data onto a physical source after the update as well.
So yea ....
Until they go bankrupt then if you did want to go back and play that old game you had so much fun with (Elemental) you could only use the non-patched version provided you had the disk.
Imagine if you will that AOW or MOM used this method all those years ago with another company that went under. You could not play those games today if you wanted to for old times sakes.
unless you still had copies of these games. all I need to do is archive game and current updates to usb storage device and i still have it baring the bizarre.. Let alone the fact that by the time said failures occur and stardock is no longer around how long will it take for others to offer latest version of game ala MOM...
paranoid delusions aside.. still seems trollish.. epically compared to say many other modern games methods..
Nah, I played that, its way too derivative of Sins of an Elemental Civilization III.
and thats a BAD thing?
tsk tsk ...
Microsoft recently dropped support for Windows XP SP2, 1st version and SP1 was dropped about 6 months before that. One day you will be on your own with it no security patches will come to you. I am sure it will still work but activation of a new install could be a problem, by the way did you have this issue with activating XP also or did you steal it ! come on be honest!
You can actually manually update unsupported Windows releases. It's not comparable at all here.
I am rather surprised the community is reacting this badly to an individual who is clearly not familiar with how Stardock DRM works. This will probably not be the only person who makes these assumptions and/or asks questions about activation. I certainly hope people who look at this game, perhaps their first Stardock product, stay the hell away from these forums. The response is unreal here.
Stardock has an almost fanatic following.(with good reason) I have seen nothing but awesome support from them as a whole. Because of this when we see people blast them for things we see as not an issue or false, we tend to act defensively.
I can't speak for stardock, but I can speak from experience. If you have the ability to read this forum, you will not have a problem registering and updating the game. Even when I was deployed in Iraq, I was able to install and update my games. When my computer died and I built a new one, I was able to install my games again and update them.
on another note, most 20 year old games become abandon-ware and will either be free, or easy to find for free on the internet and you won't need to worry about it. 20 years from now we will be playing "ELEMENTAL X: Wrath of the sky lords" where the civilization has re-advanced back to and beyond it's original (pre-destruction) state and start implementing technology.. steam-punk tanks, planes and castles in the sky. Of course this will all be done in 4D virtual reality.
I think that perhaps the main reason is that I can't think of another Video Company that has even EQUAL DRM ... all others are actually annoying + frustrating to some degree ... some one let me know if there are others.
Yes, I heard of the humble Indie bundle, choose other examples (specially since that was a limited time offer)
For instance ... I honestly wouldn't mind/ would love to play unpatched, non MP enabled Civ V without Steam. (with Out-of-the-Box playability guarantee)
On Steam ... if somehow I lose my account/ account gets erased/ I get banned for life from all Steam products ... I would never be able to play ANY Steam-related game I have EVER bought.
Some companies are EVEN WORSE.
With Stardock however ... I know that I will AT LEAST have the STATUS QUO ANTE BELLUM if any shit hits the fan. For anything short of losing electrical power to all my computers.
That would solve my issue as I said, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus about this point...
To clarify, I'm NOT complaining about having to use Impulse to download a patch... the problem rises when you re-install the OS from scratch: the Stardock official info page clearly states that upon OS re-inizialization you have to go through the entire procedure again.
That means that if I reinstall the OS a lot, everytime I've got "to ask" for permission to use the game again. This is what I don't consider fair, even not taking into account the possibility to receive "no!" as an answer. Frankly, it doesn't seem like a "trollish" complaint, to me.
That's the moment when not having to depend on a connection or activation helps. I might want to install everything on an old, unconnected PC.
To answer your question:
I have 4 work licenses for Win XP. I also have (collected over the years) licenses for various work-related programs, for a value easily in excess of 15.000 € (some of these programs use hardware locks to operate, a solution not too clumsy at last with USB keys). Add the fee I have to pay for an antivirus I have no need of, but that's required for a silly Italian law about privacy (!).
But to be completely honest, I use the software I own as I please. I don't care about the theory, because I need efficiency and if someone will argue about this, I have plenty to argue back in my defense. I have a slipstreamed installation disk for XP, which I did myself with some program, pre-patched with SP3 and stripped of most of the useless junk, so, even though I have 4 different licenses all 4 installations come from *that* disk, as it's better and faster to use. It's not my fault that the OS is poorly designed and that it degrades over time, forcing me to continuously going through re-initializations. I also have a copy of all the (licensed) software on my external backup drives, so that even the software I need can be re-installed without disk swapping or anything and I can go through the entire procedure as fast and painlessly as possible (which is something of great value to me). So you see, it's not entirely a "whim": I *do* reinstall a lot as a habit. So what do I do when finally Stardock says to me: "hey, you've activated the product too many times!!!" Well I guess if I can't do without the game at that point I could even buy a new license, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't fair to me as a customer.
You are not asking for permission, activation is basically just verifying your purchased game. Which in reality if it is a legit purchase, then there is nothing to worry about.
Impulse takes care of it all, pretty much silently and not intrusive at all. There are far more worse things out there.
The way I understand it from the earlier posts of Brad and others, there is no activation limit as such. Stardock's the guys behind the Gamers' bill of rights, and while not all games on impulse adheres to it, all games BY STARDOCK does. Important distinction that is often forgotten, causing a lot of senseless arguments.
( Link: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?aid=322522 )
It is also interesting to read Brad Wardell's explanation of the points, which is a lot more helpful, really.
Also, the security system in question on Elemental is 'Goo'. One of its features is:
"It paves the way to letting users validate their game on any digital distribution service that supports that game. One common concern of gamers is if the company they purchased a game from exits the market, their game library may disappear too. Games that use Goo would be able to be validated anywhere."
(From https://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1214 )
For instance, the thing is that the gamers' bill of rights doesn't mean NO drm, it means that the security is one step removed - it's with getting updates. I find that fair and reasonable, however; I do believe the archive option should fit your needs; it should let you archive the game and restore the archive - including updates - without getting them online. So if Stardock says 'ABANDON SHIP!!', archive everything and put it on blackrays or whatever storage medium is popular at the time, and you should be fine.
I say 'should' because few use it and I haven't seen much feedback on it, and I believe it didn't actually work for a time. That is hopefully fixed now (Usually finding a problem equates with finding a solution shortly thereafter).
As for the activation limit, it is never stated. It is not a fixed limit, like the 3 times total limit, but rather one that is designed to prevent large scale distribution of a single license - AKA, 'piracy'. 5 reinstalls a day? No problem. 42 installs on 29 computers a day? A problem. (Example Numbers are in the support pages).
However, for those using backups/reinstalls a lot, they mention this:
"Backup and Restore
Backups of your PC should include your operating system installation and the SIG.BIN in the application directory that contains your activation information.
If you restore or reimage your PC frequently, be sure to include the OS and application as part of the backup. If you reinstall the OS from scratch (like from a bundled restore CD), you will need to reactivate." (http://www.impulsedriven.com/support/activation )
So, an activated backup REMAINS activated through a backup, if you follow these guidelines. Still not EXACTLY what you need, but still, many of your main issues seem to be covered allready.
I hope this is helpful. The biggest concern for my part is lack of backwards compatibility for OS's, combined with Microsoft's sometimes blatant or heavy-handed attempts to push people into a new OS. But then, I've used Impulse and it is a much 'safer' platform than, say, Steam. Also, while it doesn't give in-client options to sell used games, Stardock says that this is handled through support, unlike other DD's which says 'no-can-do'.
I was under the belief that activation simply tied the games purchase to your impulse account, so its a once only thing.
If you were to reload windows, you would just have to log onto impulse and redownload using your existing *already-activated-for-elemental* impulse account.
Thats how I thought it worked. Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
That said, I understand the desire to not have to rely on stardock remaining in business to be able to patch the game, however as someone stated you can backup a patched version for yourself. (I daresay you can just rar up the directory too, most games dont care about what's in the registry until you try and patch them)
Correct. If you change your OS or get a new computer than all you do is open Impulse and download the game. Or you can archive your game and install that onto the new system without internet required.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
