I think they mean decline as far as their personal tastes go. They are moving away from the "BG" formula, which I personally don't mind as much. I loved DA, but also ME and ME2 even though I wished ME2 wasn't RPG-Lite on mechanics. But not everyone who likes BioWare's "BG" style games (NWN included in this also) likes action third person shooters like what ME2 became.

Maybe so, but as you might have noticed in another thread around here, apparently Dragon Age sold better than this best planned trilogy they have goine. ME 2 is a fun game. It really is, but it lacks a certain depth, and a number of other things I won't write again here.

RPGs have a pretty strong following, and because of companies like Bioware, in the so-called west, western RPGs have been winning out over JRPGs largely because I think they provide choices and differnt paths (even if the paths really aren't that different). They keep moving towards ME, it will merge more into what the JRPGs are like, and there is a reason i moved away from JRPGS (not just because I got tired of playing some teenage boy in every game either).

Not being able to craft in the camp was just ridiculous! I am not really that concerned about things being unbalanced though. I guess I come from the DnD camp where i thought certain classes weren't meant to be overpowered at some point after a period of getting punished in the beginning. I am still sad Bioware pretty much abandoned mulitplayer RPGS.

DA was good enough but forgettable and for people who played BG and IWD series in their heyday there was no real improvement over those games in DA other than graphics.

Mass Effect is basically a Final Fantasy game on the PC in sci-fi flavor. Great production values but gameplay that makes me want to fall asleep just thinking about it.

You're making a pretty big generalization here, and of course, you are not alone in this. I guess I have to say I played BG1 and 2, I prefer DA. Not everyone remembers BG as some sort of holy gift to the gaming industry.

I don't see how you can say that when many of the quests outside of the MQ in DA are "get 10 mushrooms" or "kill some wolves".  I don't know, I just thought it was much cooler to have people run up to you in BGII and beg you to save their town or to walk through the docks and find yourself in a murder investigation.  There isn't as much of that variety and organic feel in DA.  It's a great fantasy game with a lot of strong suits but the depth, story and other things were a big step down from the BG series for me.  But as I said, I do enjoy the game and there are many commendable attributes, such as the detailed world that BW created and the idea of origin stories, even if the implementation wasn't what I expected.       

I still play them as well.  Yes they are dated but they still hold up.  Will DA and ME be able to say the same in 10+ years?  Who knows.  And yeah the DLC is pretty awful, I also hate this trend of "pre-order at Gamestop to get this item".  Is this a game or a happy meal?  I don't mind the idea of DLC in theory, but don't just make them for the sake of making them, and please don't put an in game advertisement for the DLC in my game within a week of release.  

You people need to get your facts straight.

NWN2 was by Obsidian, not Bioware.

EA has done nothing to Bioware but support its development process financially and marketing their games well. There are no limits on Bioware from EA. TOR being like the most expensive game ever really is limiting.

I gotta weigh in on this because among our local gaming cadre this has been a topic of heavy conversation for a while now and I'm glad to see it on the internets.

We've all had the same feeling the OP has for a while now. I'll focus my discussion on Mass Effect, but know that for us at least it represents RPGs as a whole. Mass Effect brought fantastic new technology to the RPG genre, but in exchange for almost ubiqitous voice acting, better blocking and technical direction for the onscreen characters, and a massive upgrade in the quality of the look and feel of the environment you ended up with a lot of sacrifice.

Sure your "choices" carry over, but what effect do they really have? There are some different characters you interact with, but otherwise you're on the same rails that any JRPG sets you upon. Not only that, but for all the improvements that are made the invested time to deliver them is robbed from the production of actualt content. How many hours of real storytelling was there in Mass Effect vs Baldur's Gate 1?

And I think storytelling is the key here to the feeling that many of us are getting not just about Bioware, but the RPG genre in general, as was suggested by another poster. Somewhere along the line Role Playing Games came to be synonymous with Levels, Exp, Skill Trees, and Phat Loot. I can even pile these upon the plainest, most undeveloped characters and call my game an RPG now. I don't know who decided Role was now your summary of mechanical calculations and not your world view, personality, or even approach to other characters, but I condemn them. The qualities that cam to define Role Playing Game are largely lacking in the new RPG genre since your choices really only determine some other number attached to your character, whereas the outcome of the story is always decided beforehand.

I find myself astonished that a decision I make has any effect on the world at all in most games now. It's an amazing event, which is a sad bastion of greatness in a genre in general decline for me. Sure Mass Effect has a higher number of these moments than many other games that have been released in the past decade, but being the biggest brine shrimp in the pickle jar still means you're just a sea monkey, no offense to sea monkeys that may be reading this.

Sure, many jump to the defense of many of the recently released products. And "Well I still find it fun." is a VALID argument, don't get me wrong. But that doesn't mean that I can't continue to hold many of these companies, especially given the standard they set for themselves, to said standard or an even higher one. And I think some of us are doing just that. Further I think it's our right to set our expectations too high and have them dashed. As long as we're civil when we discuss it, no harm no foul.

Which brings me to why i was compelled to even post. I was so glad to see a forum post on one gamer's opinion of Bioware, and that there were further posts by those who agreed and disagreed, with none of them resorting to attacks. I was so moved to see this that I HAD to post on this magical oasis on the internets where no trolls and no flames wars preside!

In conclusion I'd like to toss out that NWN 2 was actually developed by Obsidian (used to be Black Isle), not Bioware. The same goes for KotOR 2. Further, I attribute most of my RPG favorites to Obsidian (Black Isle) as they've demonstrated their ability to produce characters, events, and choices that resonate with me and leaving me with the feeling that I Played a Role in their story Game. And I fully support them when and where I can.

You mean the company that has loosened DRM on their PC games, not gone into the Steam only crowd, kept their games at $50, tried investing into original IPs (Dead Space, The Saboteur, Mirror's Edge) rather than pump out sequels like the rest of the industry? Yeah, EA is really terrible.

This is a point I take slight issue with.

When it comes to choices in games, what does that really mean? There is no real game I know where you can make 'storyline' choices that isn't on rails.

The only ones what arn't on rails are not really 'storylines' but emergent stories. Like say Mount and Blade. ("I fought the hated Nords for control of this important location and won with only a few casualtys, only to see heavy reinforcments riding towards me on the sunsets illumination. The only path was retreat, back to Suno or face oblivion.")

Its still just a state machine. With prettie graphics and holefully some if statements to refrence previous choices.

Nesrie makes a good point about the origin stories of DA, they don't change much but they give YOU (the player) a deeper understanding and YOU (the character you play) some backstory in the game. Without the origins your just another n00b faced warden recruit.

In todays RPGs the choices ARE the "world view, personality, or even approach to other characters" role play of the past. They arn't really to do with the set storyline at all.

No i just made a mistake...It was Bioware's engine they used to make it and Obsidian was the developer.  I'm glad I was mistaken since hopefully Obsidian can release another RPG of that quality again.

In any case I can say you will never see the patch support those games got from Bioware anymore since EA doesn't support their games after release...  Kane's Wrath patch 1.03 anyone?

I like Bioware. I liked Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

Remember one thing:

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/07/09/five-facts-about-hawke-in-dragon-age-ii.aspx

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