In Beta 3 the minor factions were in but not really because the odds of them being spawned were miniscule. That’s something I’ve been working on over the holiday.
But minor factions shouldn’t be just fancy goodie huts. Instead, they have many of the same abilities as a major faction except that they don’t expand. Not being able to expand, however, is a tough thing. In GalCiv, minor races were pretty much at the mercy of the player.
Of course, GalCiv didn’t have magic.
In Elemental, the minor factions get a guardian unit that represents their tribe. Secondly, they get a special unit producing improvement. If you capture it, you can train units of that type.
In the long-run, we hope to let players use their diplomatic abilities to trade for the special creatures they provide.
Example of a faction’s guardian unit:
Indeed. That's all I was getting at back on page 1. I think the majority consensus on this will be that minor factions need to be considered a little more then just "Minor" or they'll turn out as just "fancy goodie huts". If they're going to be in the game at all (which honestly does kinda go against the whole ruined world thing) they need to be able to have a purpose all their own. They need to be able to build up at least a little bit so they can prove to be worth keeping around. I've always preferred the type of "Minor" civilization/empire/faction in whatever game I was playing that would actually have a use. Diplomacy (known as Politics in the real world) can have much greater uses and can actually allow these Minor factions to have weight. If they have at least a little bit of power behind them you can have "proxy wars" through them against your enemies or even allies without breaking an alliance.
Minor factions need to be able to spread out some and gain power, even if it is at ten times a slower rate then the player or standard AI Factions. The fact that they would spread so much slower and Not have a Sovereign (maybe even not having a hero) would be all that's needed to make them "Minor". Without a centralized form of leadership no civilization or group or settlement would ever get very far. They wouldn't have someone to say "Hey, lets go build another colony over there" or to say "We should Ally ourselves with this strong Empire over here". Instead, their form of government (or lack there-of) would have them looking to the "Village Elder" or "Town Mayor" for guidance. In Elemental's case since Frogboy is giving minor factions these "guardian units" then if the "guardian" has a high enough Intelligence perhaps in Diplomacy you'll be talking to the "Guardian" directly. I think that would be pretty cool.
I also wouldn't mind seeing Minor Factions that specialized in certain areas. Perhaps one type of Minor Faction has ancient secrets of a lost form of magic. Perhaps one minor faction knows how to be better miners than their neighbors. If they each grant certain bonuses (think about resources in space and building starbases in GalCiv2) and the player or Ai can only get that bonus by successfully bringing the minor faction into their Empire/Kingdom, this gives yet another reason why the player or AI shouldn't just wipe them out. I think that would be pretty cool as well.
So, we don't need Minor factions that are as fleshed out as normal AI Factions. They wouldn't need as advanced an AI as a normal AI Faction would, but they need to be more then speed bumps and they need to be worth keeping around or they'll just get mowed over or seen as fancy goodie huts.
Correction: they would need just as advanced an AI as the major factions. It'd just be different, and admittedly wouldn't have to take into account nearly as much and therefore might be easier to code, but it should be just as sophisticated in what it actually does. It's a technicality, I know, but we don't want to go putting lazy ideas into Brad's head!
"In regards to the factions being able to give you benefits via diplomacy, could that extend to include swearing fealty, and/or becoming a protectorate?"
I'd vote for being able to do that with anybody, major or minor. I'd vote for me being able to become someone's vassal too.
Also, trade caravans with minors sounds good.
Agree with just about everybody that minors should be more powerful than in GalCiv 2. No strong opinions on how to make them so.
Does anyone know what has happened to that idea Brad presented a while back where once your empire grows, you must assign a champion/family member to govern it to reduce maintenance costs, effectively turning that region of your empire into a vassal state?
You know that's what I meant . Pretty sure Brad knows that's what I meant too, at least...I hope... Oh No!!!
LoL
I'd imagine most implementations of 'minor' factions would naturally make them weaker than major, therefore making them prime targets for conquest. I'd certainly like to see either:
a) Them having unique things that are Lost on conquest, or
b ) Them having unique things that can also be traded for but if you invade then you lose the trade. So for example maybe they give you a supply of drakes but if you declare war they cut off the supply and you can build no more drakes until you conquer them. Or perhaps they could come to the player and say "we'll give you our drake supply if you agree to defend us from the scary major nations".
I'd really like to see option b actually. Would seem very fun to me.
This is like Warlords of so many years ago. It really is a great idea.
Minor factions should at least be able to take over cities. I would perfer if they could expand.
Actully that sounds pretty awsome. Why would you think that was horrible? I would love for Minor races to do this. At least make it an option to allow Minor races to expand and or become a major race.
"(which honestly does kinda go against the whole ruined world thing)"
Given the 100 years that have passed, it makes sense that some small bands of folks would get together for mutual protection against the roaming wildlife. Sadly, they don't have the one resource needed for expansion, a SoV. So I don't think it breaks with Canon really.
It would be great though that after you make contact, instead of taking them over, you could offer them the resources to grow and then use them as Diplomatic clout when dealing with other Major Races/Factions.
Something else that I think would work well establishing minor factions would be if they had the option, once diplomatic relations were established and decent, to bargain for your Sovereign's spell casting prowess. It would reinforce that they were independent nations, but small, and without the one big resource that makes you different. It would also subtly reinforce the importance of Sovereigns in the world to the player as well.
Maybe as part of the trade agreements for their special unit/resource they ask you to enchant their cities production or to give them a summoned unit. That sort of thing. It may also be neat if they knew enough to ask for your sovereign to shape the terrain (build a mountain, create a beachhead, etc) around them as part of the deal, but I'm not sure how complicated that would be for the AI.
I think making them mundane but otherwise like majors is the most organic approach. I don't like adding in a ton of special rules like what GCII has, unless they are necessary. It's just better game design to not throw in artificial rules.
This is why I support the no sovereign being their penalty. Maybe with a random event that could make them major (they get a sovereign, either a disloyal child of a sovereign, or someone is born with it)
They could even trade to become a major faction with a casting souvereign. This would work using the imbue hero spell (via a diplomatic option) transfering essence to their non-casting souvereign.
I am not sure if there is an option of diplomatic victory but strengthening your ally could be a wise choice when trying to archive such victory conditions.
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