Before anything goes into the public beta tree it has to go into the private beta tree. And before it goes into the private beta tree it has to get played with in the prototyping tree.
The protyping tree is where all the experiments happen. That’s where we will try out some interesting idea that looks good on paper but discover it’s not “fun” when put to the test.
Sometimes an idea will make it all the way to the public tree and then get demoted back into the protyping tree to get more experimentation on later.
Other times an idea will look good but take too long to test or balance and stay in the protyping tree for a long time.
Today, I’m playing around with creatures.
I’ve always wanted to see whether I could just have monsters spawn out there occasionally out in the woods to keep the world lively and dangerous.
Each monster has its own intelligence level so I could, for instance, divide up the handling of monsters by intelligence. Intelligence <2, for instance would be basically just an animal that won’t likely bother you unless you attack it or get too close. At higher levels, they could get more cunning.
I don’t know if this prototype stuff will make it into the shipping game or some future update, but it’s the kind of experimentation that often leads to new ideas on how to make games more fun.
I doubt the Spiders would have initiative to invade your city ... only harrass any units that entered their forest.
Now, if it was bugbears on the other hand .... or god forbid DEMONS that could convince other monsters to aid their cause ... then u might be in trouble ...
But yea, I feel demons etc are fairly rare, to the point where somehow not discovering that demons are right behind you would be rather hard.
Although, I suppose its possible that demons could start spawning next to your empire w/o much warning if u lived near a swamp or volcanoe.
You don't know what NPCs can do when exploring lairs under the FOW
Or if you had cast a spell that opened an interplanar Gate to allow them in...nice inspiration for a new spell. Basically open a gate/rift on any tile that randomly spawns monsters/demons/etc...lower levels spawn lower monsters, higher levels of the spell spawn demons and tougher monsters. Cast in enemy territory for much fun and hilarity! <insert thumbs up vault boy image here>
Of course sooner or later you will have to deal with the demon army that annihilated your enemy...
Link to the spell in the official request thread here
Nothing wrong with RPG elements in a game like this. I think you're in the majority on this, not the minority.
Balance isn't as important in a SP game as a MP game, though the fact elemental has MP means that balance has to at least be moddable.
Quoting Frogboy, reply 6Heh, I just made it so that monsters of different kinds will attach one another. This ought to be interesting.
You mention monster leveling? Would it be possible to spawn "young" monsters that would gain age, as well as increased attributes as they level?
It would be somewhat daunting if every Bone Ogre that spawned was at FULL fighting weight, so to speak, right from the outset.
Very nice - this is the sort of detail I was expecting for the game to take from fantasy galciv to feeling a bit different. Seems you're playing about with some really nice thoughts and ideas here.
i like the living woods idea!
Why not
while( uLoopcount < 50) and break instead of bSuccess ?
So we should build cities near/in forests in order to have monsters spawn in forests far from our cities...
This would be nice - the idea that wild, untamed areas are more dangerous. Perhaps also linked back to the terrain idea, so mountain and marsh could be really dangerous, plains/coastal less so, and then layer on distance to nearest city.
Perhaps also the spots of fertile land that used to exist could come back, but they also have more chance of supported a tough and varied fauna.
so who wrote comment "//BradSucksAsProgrammer = true;"? Did he get fired?
Would it be possible to tag wildlife type monsters with Carnivore, Herbivore or Omnivore to influence their responses?
Carnivores and Omnivores might be more inclined to attack fleshy troops while Herbivores would be more inclined to flee unless they're cornered?
This would sidestep the issue of setting up specific animal enemies like cats and dogs - though that could also be done for specific instances - but still offer some random wildlife activity we might see happening from time to time. It would also allow modders to introduce new wildlife types without needing to touch all the other creatures like/dislike lists.
Just a thought.
If the neutral monsters will attack each other in the retail game, this suggestion should get implemented as well.
Also, we should be able to create specific groups -like the suggested carnivores- for the monsters [& various modifiers/tags/etc. as well of course, like group X hates group Y etc.] via editing .xml files.
Posting in support of sea monsters. Kraken, sirens, a leviathan.
Heck, storms at sea too (think Uncharted Waters, storms are your worst enemy).
These storms could be tamed (or caused) by mastery of a air shard, or a water shard could create giant whirlpools.
Fire shard = Boiling seas. I think an Earth shard can already raise islands (maybe sink them too).
Basically, more ocean stuff, please.
Edit: Tasunke's post about demons got me thinking, I like the idea of a powerful monster recruiting lesser monsters into a little monster army of sorts. Like if monster's combat rating >X, then there's a X% chance of recruiting a lesser monster if he comes withing 2 squares, double chance if they are of the same "monster type". Or something like that.
I know there will be a lot of variety, but how about dividing certain things into basic brackets?
1. Wild Animals
2. Dire Animals
3. Lesser Lair
4. Heavy Lair
With Lairs spawning/housing fantasy creatures, and animals being able to spawn without a Lair.
I-II
Basically, normal Wild Animals will be able to spawn anywhere (in their terrain) with a higher chance on squares farther away from cities. They can spawn within LOS as well.
Dire Animals can't spawn within LOS, and can only spawn X tiles away from the nearest city. Dire Animals don't start spawning after X turns (or after each player gets 1 city built), and their spawn rate depends on map size and how many Dire Animals are currently on the Map. (less Dire animals increases spawn rate, too many slows the rate to a crawl or halt)
III-IV
Lesser Lairs can spawn anywhere (including within a Line of Sight). Tiles near cities and Tiles near other Lairs have a smaller chance of spawning a Lesser Lair. The farther the Tile is from a City or Lair, the greater the chance a Lair will spawn. Lairs will start to spawn after X turns, adding to the Lairs already on the map.
Heavy Lairs can only spawn outside of LOS, after X turns, and X tiles away from any starting location. Spawn chance is Inversely related to how close a city is. The Larger the Size of the City, the smaller the spawn chance by an exponential factor**. (scaled to map-size). The spawn chances of a Heavy Lair depend on the level of the highest leveled Sovereign controlled unit in the game. // Alternatively could be determined by how many Heavy Lairs already exist (more lairs equal less chance) or by how many Cities exist (more cities equal MORE chance).
Depending on Map-Size, there can only be X Wild Animals, X Dire Animals, X Lesser Lairs, and X Heavy Lairs at any given time.
Each Lair can only support X fantasy creatures (that spawn from that Lair).
If instead going for a Soft Cap, after the limit is reached, Spawn Chance is divided by 10 for each additional spawn beyond the full population cap. AKA 1st extra has a 10% (of original) chance, the 2nd extra has a 1% chance, the third extra has a 0.1% chance ... etc.
** A Heavy Lair will most likely spawn far into the wilderness, where spawn chances are very high. A Heavy Lair DOES still have a chance to spawn nearby a city. This chance is 16 times greater to spawn near a size 1 city than a size 5 city. Meaning, that if the chance to spawn near a size 1 city was 00.16% ... then the chance to spawn near a Size 5 city would be 00.01%.
i am not sure if this is relevant but what about certain monsters creating/settling/taking cities. i love the idea of chances for monsters of various types forming armies. this i think gives rise to possible monster heroes or leaders. i think this would give a whole other avenue to approach. are the recruitable? do they have special abilities?
thank you for making this game. i have been waiting a long time for something like this.
I think that this has been suggested already, but either way...I really like this idea!...more gameplay features = better diversity = win!
Does this mean that all sea units will be sort of 'broken' because the AI will not be able to use them effectivly like they were in the AOW series of games? I really hope the AI can use see units as well as they will use the land units.
Quoting Tormy-, reply 66Quoting Paul Foegle, reply 65i am not sure if this is relevant but what about certain monsters creating/settling/taking cities. i love the idea of chances for monsters of various types forming armies. this i think gives rise to possible monster heroes or leaders. I think that this has been suggested already, but either way...I really like this idea!...more gameplay features = better diversity = win!
Although I also agree with the premise, a caveat has to be applied. If the roaming monsters get this kinda of power, it should not be included under MP play. I could imagine playing Online only to have to fight off monster bands while your neighbor watches with glee while building up his army to finish of the remnants of both sides.
In SP though, if these groups were to be allowed to form, some level of control on how fast it happens would need be in place, or we could face a world of fighting just Monster Hordes vs the opposing Factions, or worse, Both! LOL!
For MP it should at least be an option. The group that I play with would always want to use this option. In fact we want all the SP options in MP not matter how 'unbalanced' ot 'unfair' it is. For us it is the challange and fun that count.
And for a set group that is fine. For everyone who does not have a set group and will play with "strangers" that kind of imbalance, even if an Option, will not be tolerable or tolerated for very long.
Balance is over-rated. If you want balance just fight Shin Akuma vs Shin Akuma.
Some great ideas! Epic Wins!
A living world. Creature evolution. Organic growth. Always a different world, naturally.
?? Creatures level over time + combat. A creature of appropriate level, having meet a series of requirements, rolls for hero mini-boss status (those who can lead). Have mini-bosses attract bands that either roam or settle depending on their nature (+ game triggers and RNG rolls). At various triggers, a mini-boss led band establishes itself as a Minor Faction. Colony reaches a specific size, then auto-builds a building, which auto-builds units every N turns. Mature colonies have a variety of buildings, producing different unit types at varying speeds. Colony grows as units amass to then disperse in banded waves of havoc causing fun. At a proscribed colony size, the mini-boss seeks out a secondary site to colonize. Perhaps less intelligent creatures can spawn a per-species version of pioneers.??
?? Allow creatures of like class to breed. RNG rolls for stat and ability combos. Allow for variety, resulting with some rare uber-spawns (up to mini-boss status). Allow mini-bosses to breed with other creature classes (within classification limits?). Allow for the evolution of hybrid species (Griffins, Chimera, Spider-crocs, toothy frogs, and more). Give mini-bosses variable and RNG affected objectives: find a mate, form roving clans, form colony, destroy budding civilizations, seek to unify clans, and so on. The breeding of mini-bosses might result in the ultra-rare Big-Boss. The big-boss possesses a few ultra-uber stats and unique abilities. Under special conditions a Big-boss can establish a creatures version of city. A serious of events, fulfilled requirements, and RNG rolls can bring rise to a limited monster civilization (rare, but with increasing odds and triggers over time).
?? Some Big-bosses from certain species, can engage in diplomacy with other monster clans; as well as with applicable Kingdom and Empire leaders. Small monster bands can form clans, which can join with other clans to create a greater inter-species alliance. Players can attempt to ally with, or otherwise manipulate creature bands/clans/alliances to their benefit. Kingdom and Empire to have their own potentially friendly creature sets. Player (human and AI) can expend resources to covertly assist a monster group in the harassing of an opponent. Or can attempt to openly ally with it. Constructive relations between Player and certain creature classes, might trigger aggressively hostile relations with opposing creature classes (natural enemies). Player/creature relations to affect diplomacy modifiers between players. Player decisions to affect existing creature relations (torch a forest after chucking a fireball at an enemy, and risk having your Treant allies turn against you).
Countdown to Monster Armageddon.
?? Like sand through an hourglass, the passing of turns is a countdown to monster Armageddon. Creature activity and intensity increase exponentially over time. Building up to a powerful creature end-game. Ignore creature expansion at your own peril! Or, act to quicken monster meltdown towards your own risky aims. Left alone to its evolutionary device, the more breeding creatures there exist, the more likely the spawning of rare uber-beings there will be. While over time, and impacted by global events; various creature triggers can be increased, as the odds against uber rolls decrease (bigger bosses, more of them, and spawned quicker). A countdown towards monster armegeddon has begun! Player actions can impact events towards keeping the monster armageddon at bay; or they can conspire to see it quickened. [See the brilliant Armageddon Counter in the Civ4:FfH2 mod].
Due to a series of RNG rolls, some games will develop to be creature intense sooner than others. In some games, numerous roving creature bands may thwart aims towards conquest.. as armies are ambushed by great bands of berserker beasts. While in other games, a Sovereign is pestered by the constant spawning of weak though numerous, little green meanies. And from time to time there may emerge insanely powerful beings which might require an alliance to defeat. While some rare games will see the rise of powerful creature alliances which will break player preconceptions as to how the game is played. On a per game basis, the level of creature danger becomes dynamic. You never know quite what you will face, or how exactly it will evolve. But as player, you will have opportunity to read your world, and make decisions which have impact on an eventual creature population explosion... and everything that goes along with that (including increased odds for uber-being spawns, an increase in creature related triggers, a more rapid rate of creature leveling, + ).
Imagine it!
A bad ass spider boss gets triggered into play. It seeks out a nearby forest and plops its scary ass down. A hoard of little baby spiders are born. They grow/level every N turns + battle. As the spider pop grows, webs become visible on the tree tops (terrain change evident on the maps). Player beware! ...time passes. Spiders begin to emerge from the nest in greater numbers and with increasing strength. Their search for food has embolden them to prey upon local farms and outlying villages. Player notices stark changes to the forest. It has grown stunted and dark under the immense weight of the spiderweb network which cocoons it. Player has been warned!... Spider Boss is about to seek out another nesting site. The Sovereigns hands are already full dealing with a dangerously aggressive neighbor; but the spider attacks have grown evermore bold and destructive. Something Must be done, Now! The spider colony must_not be allowed to expand. A party is organized and sets out...
The Sovereigns party enters the forest = The Player enters Tactical Combat. They witness a bone chilling sight. A network of spiderwebs encase the forest. A deer recently caught, struggles helplessly against its snare. Other victims occasionally spasm in cocoon coffins swaying from the trees. Littered across the forest floor are the decaying carcasses of consumed victims. Small spiders crawl everywhere! Bigger spiders turn their gaze on the party. Then suddenly, from huge tunnel-web openings at the edge of the clearing, massive spider legs emerge. Followed immediately by enormous heads and dripping fangs. Spiders of nightmare proportions creep out of the tunnel-webs. A series of short high pitched squeals are heard, and then as one the enormous spiders leap towards the party. The fight is on!
A Sovereign patrolling his lands, discovers an Ogre tribe has taken up residence. The Sovereign has heard tales of an increasing Ogre presence in the region. And has been told of a great leader among them. Sovereign bestows gifts upon this small Ogre tribe, and inquires as to whereabouts of this Ogre Leader. After a short journey, the Sovereign tops a rise and is surprised to discover a large settlement in the valley below. An Ogre party, along with a few giant trolls rush out in a show of force, then escorts the Sovereign to their leader. This leader is unlike any Ogre the Sovereign has seen before. Part Ogre part Troll, it strikes an imposing figure while staring down at the diminished Sovereign with a look of calculating intelligence. The Ogre leader takes charge and begins setting terms of understanding between the two races. Seeing the potential of an outright alliance with the Ogre, our Sovereign enthusiastically agrees to the demands and offers a cooperation compact to which the Ogre agrees.
Years pass as the Ogre nation grows. They now inhabit a full third of the Sovereigns borders. Nothing hostile gets through this Ogre line. The Ogres report everything that goes on within their line of sight. With a large portion of his borders secured, Sovereign is able to focus on other things. As the Ogre population grows, so to do their demands for food and materials increase. Sovereign agrees but requires their services from time to time. To date, the Sovereign has tasked the Ogres to attack various new found settlements that have been creeping closer to his domain. All the while offering friendship and goodwill to these interloping rivals. Little do they know the Sovereign is behind these Ogre attacks. Time wears on as the Ogres expand their populations, and improve their settlements with Sovereign shared technology. From the Ogre ranks emerge wickedly dangerous hybrids. You see, our Sovereign has been expending his essence towards the breeding of a greater Ogre.
All goes well according to our Sovereigns master-plans. The Ogre bands are preparing to launch a devastating overland strike against a neighboring civs outlying settlements. Meanwhile the Sovereign prepares his armies for a naval strike of the targets fat coastal cities. But alas, the Sovereigns greed has betrayed him! In his scouting preparations, Sovereign spied a conveniently located settlement of coastal Trolls. Failing at diplomacy, and not willing to meet the Trolls demands, our Sovereign attacks the settlement for use as a forward operating base and resupply depot. In the Sovereigns blind greed, he failed to realize that the Trolls had a dynastic connection to the Ogre hoard. The hoard reverses their march and turns upon the Sovereigns own cities. With the bulk of their army at sea, the cities stand no chance. They are quickly, and completely overrun. Safely on his flagship, Sovereign sees the futility of attempting to liberate his once grand empire, so he sails off in search for a haven from which to rebuild.
And so much more WeeHeeee! I can't wait for this epic game!
We* demand wildlands! If we have a living world, large lands without player nations (maybe a few minor nations tho) yet many adventure locations, resources, and monsters! Maybe we could add wildlands in the select rival nations screen. As for instance:
Ruin wildland, with undead, ruins and other fitting things.
Swamp wildland, with swampish things
Desert wildland, with a few but powerful set of monsters
*I
Minor nations consisting of "fantasy races" could also be a cool addition. Like WhiteElk above me said, if a sufficiently advanced monster arises, he would create a minor nation. And if he does it in a wildland, there would probably be room to grow.
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