To say that fantasy means orcs, elves, etc... well, that seems to be a pretty narrow definition.
I've always thought that Sci-Fi is fiction that hinges on semi-scientific ideas: what if we could fly into space, go faster than light, rewrite life, etc... epitomized by authors like Niven and Pournelle.
Fantasy, on the other hand, was fiction that drew its strength and aesthetic from the frankly unexplainable, that is "magic." There is plenty of magic in Elemental.
If Fantasy is just orcs, elves, and the rest of the generic crowd (which I admit, I do like!) than we're left with a LOT of fiction that has no name. Martin's books, McAffrey's books (which only have dragons), etc.
Of course there is something to be said in that Elemental doesn't have a lot of clearly inhuman races, but it seems to cover that base with units and independents. A lot of fantasy creations aren't social, and in a game like this the protagonists must be the sort that build societies. Everyone else either gets to play along or wiped out.
I didn't say that every fantasy game MUST have the "standard" races (although I prefer if it has them). I meant that to make the game more interesting there should be some fantastic races, and not all of them should be "so alien as to be unsympathetic to players entirely", which would be a good idea for a sci-fi game. I also wrote earlier in this thread that games are a different thing than books. Games need diversity (and having multiple races is a good way of achieving it), while books can be interesting for other reasons, so there are many good fantasy books without non-Human races.
Whether these races should be "traditional" or not is another question. I prefer traditional (for reasons described in my earlier posts in this thread), but I can understand the opposite point of view too (as well as a mix of these 2 types of races).
Unlike most people here, I prefer to play as the good side in games (or neutral if it's available), and I find it boring that in Elemental it's represented only by the Human race. A book where only Humans are good can be a good read, but a game based on this setting feels a little lacking. It's nice that Frogboy has his own vision of a fantasy world and wants to make a game based on it, but I'm not happy that it causes the game to lack diversity.
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Human Kingdoms are "good", the same a Fallen Kingdoms. Fallen Empires are "evil" the same a Human Empires. Why? Story is being told by the human kingdoms' point of view.
There are "good" Fallen races, btw, they simply aren't introduced yet. I essentially understand what you are saying. On the flip side, I'm often annoyed how each race is portrayed as a monolithic culture. That to me is not very diverse. But, I'm not trying to argue with you, because I'm not against non-human races. I'm more against simplistic portrayals of said races.
It's very exciting! i hate how every fantasy game involves elves, dwarfs, and orcs. This game is showing some originality. having 3 races that are a lot better developed then people are stating. The world of elemental is full of titan creations, as Brad stated every race is not fully represented in this game, just the core races, the inhereters of the titan legacy, and the humans who originally inhabited this world.
The complaints on this thread are pathetic if you have a real problem with these races you could easily make your own and if you have a problem with the lore being in games you could easily go lock yourself in a closet and play with squares like an earlier post suggested.
I believe good and evil exist objectively, in real world history too. From what I know so far, the Kingdoms seem good and Empires evil to me (even if Frogboy doesn't say so in his journals), but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know the entire storyline.
I don't think races should be monolithic cultures, there can be multiple factions of every race (for example there are 2 Dwarven factions in Fall from Heaven). Another interesting idea would be a faction that incorporates multiple races, but I guess it would be a bit complicated to implement.
I don't have a problem with lore being in the game, I just don't like the fact that it limits the racial diversity of what I call the "good side".
Btw I'm not sure how "creating your own race" will look in the final version. Will it require modding or only customization, like creating your own faction?
I think it is just statism vs individualism, but death vs life does seem like a struggle vs good and evil. but you could have a fallen race that uses life magic, couldn't you?
there will be minor factions in elemental, but when it's a post apocolytic world it would make sense that a majority of the race would ban together. I don't know if the minor factions will incorporate a mix of races or not. I'd guess there would be to much tention/competition for there to be a multi race faction.
And i believe you will be able to customize your own race without modding, it was a topic in discussion a while back ago on wether they should focus on flushing out the race and allowing them to customize their own. but i do not know if that is something that will be in the game or not. I just think it will.
Of course you can always chose to believe that the citizens of your faction are not monolothic -- this is a weakness of modern games with their rich graphics and backstories and the strength of extremely silly games like Dwarven Fortress. Definitely the reason I prefer pen and paper games where the complexity and texture of the game can be as much as you like.
I like to imagine there is more subtlety and nuance to my digital people and when I build a marketplace in Civ or improve the roads first in Total War that I am influencing the everyday citizens I never get to see.
Echoing what Alphalegion said, the population in a post-apocalyptic world would be quite low, and a very strong leader could well dominate the behavior of his people. If you're starting with 100 people it isn't a stretch to believe that they could have a pretty coherent and monolithic culture to begin with.
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