Elemental makes use of a brand new 3D engine developed specifically for PC strategy games. Its multithreaded design along with dynamic LOD (level of detail) allows for it to look great on a wide range of hardware.
To see and understand why Elemental can look good on low end hardware and yet benefit further from higher end hardware see for yourself how the dynamic LOD works:
Look very very closely here. This isn’t one 3D object. This is dozens of 3D objects. The engine determines how powerful your hardware is and based on that can choose to display objects based on that.
As more objects come into view, certain “less important” objects start to fade away:
Did something change?
Look closely. Did something change?
How about now?
As a result of the object-based system that Kumquat provides, the graphics look identical at a casual glance and yet, the polygon count is dramatically less in the third image.
And users with very low end hardware can simply play using the sprite based output (cloth map mode):
Because Kumquat is a PC-only graphics engine, it can make a different set of trade offs than the traditional cross-platform engine. Namely, it can assume players have a considerable amount of memory (1 gigabyte is the minimum total system memory to play a Kumquat based game – very little on a PC but twice what a current generation console has). Thus, a given game object can be made up of many sub-objects (which use more memory) but can be dynamically turned on or off based on 3D hardware instead of having to load up lower-quality 3D models.
I believe Tridus is right on the money. I personally dig the art style. It’s a new and fresh change from other games.
However, the issue is that there are abrupt geography “blocks” next to empty “blocks.” Using the example provided by Tuco above, one of the top blocks is filled with the swamp moss trees. The block is filled all the way to the edges. But most of the surrounding blocks are totally empty. There is no flow between the blocks with stuff and those without. If the surrounding blocks had a few trees, dirt, or something similar, the flow between the full blocks and the empty blocks would look better.
Anyway, that’s just a suggestion. It really isn’t a big deal for me though because I’m enjoying the visuals.
Okay, by reading my post, you understand I'm not whining, I just care about the game. It it sounds whiney, that's because it's over the internet and 3/4ths of written stuff sounds that way.
Okay, the fact that you say there is LITERALLY an option named that is just too funny . Personally, I'd probably turn it on.
I was watching the videos over at gametrailers (the ones that weren't intended to be released...) and the demo is set in a desert, and it's all spiffy and cool. However, allow me to quote myself:
"That said, the research, the city building and all that SHTUFF looked nice. I think someone above mentioned the land being dull. Now, it's true that it's based of the desert, but I've noticed that before. The land looks very... undetailed. The tiles that have things on them are very nice, but there's a sharp contrast between "important" tiles and "normal' tiles. You mentioned in the modding video you posted a few days ago that you wanted to see animals running around on the ground. Any chance this will be in? What about some birds flying overhead, or some vultures that circle you in the desert? These are little touches that make the game seem more detailed, which is a good thing in my opinion."
I think this level of detail would add flavor to the game without cluttering the art-inspired landscape. Oh, and boogie, I await those screenies. I'm still on the fence regarding the art, myself.
I think TucoBenedicto is getting at something I've felt myself. That second image feels alive, the first does not (again, keep in mind, I haven't SEEN this stuff in action). I'm not trying to go whiney, I mean that the second has detail that brings the world alive, but it is still VERY clear what is interactive and what is flavor. To me, flavor is important, as it sucks you into the game world more. I don't need a "goodie-hut" every three tiles, but flavor, those whimsical little details that make the world seem alive, are important. Right now, from what I've seen, this flavor isn't there. In the videos, Brad transforms the world from desert (understandably barren), and besides grass, it's still just as barren and undetailed, which just feels unnatural.
I like the artstyle, but I likes mah flavor.
OK, so lets actually use that old (OLD OLD OLD) screenshot as a variable in our test...
This is a really quick rehash of that shot in the most recient build of the game. Going back and forth I can see spots where the old shot trumps the current one:
- The old river was bendy and natural (it was jsut a decal at that point...no real river code at that point), the new one hugs the tiles too tightly. We'll be continuing to improve the rivers till gold, but at the end of the day a river has to occupy a tile, so we may be stuck
- The water in that shot takes on the color of the environment, this new one remains 'barren blue', even though the color changed in the map editor. I have Ross looking into that, since it's obviously a bug.
- More cool evil bits that make the fallen landscape look more vile. This is an easy bit to fix, since the assets exists.
In the new shot, I fid the following more appealing...
- Subtler line and subdued colors: These first shots drew a lot of ire from player assuming we were doing 'cartoony'. Toning down the colors and bringing down the line thickness does better to sell the 'illustrative' look.
- Distance fog: Another thing that helps sell the atmosphere of the world. The old shots didn't have much/any, and came off as juvenile (IMO).
So yeah, a few steps forward, a few steps back. We'll start using those old shots as visual tests to see how the game has progressed and include you guys in the feedback loop.
And Tuco, if you've seen Dwarf Fortress, you know that there are gamers that genuinely don't care about graphics. They aren't fanboyz, or sheep...they just know the worth of a solid gameplay experience. I, ironically, am not one of them...I want Elemental to look as good as possible. Don't hold back your criticism of the game, but try not to criticize other forum goers Thanks!
This is me, Dwarf Fortress honestly has the best gameplay of any game that I've played, and isn't even 30% complete. The interface is horrible, the graphics are ASCII, the game is filled with bugs, but I keep coming back for more. It's pretty much been the only thing I've been playing while waiting for Beta 2. You want to know why? Because of its incredible complexity, there are almost infinite things to do, and everything that goes wrong ends in hilarity. It doesn't matter to me if there are no grapics, all I want is good gameplay.
And honestly, who wouldn't laugh when "The spinning live fluffy wambler strikes The Bronze Colossus in the head and the severed part sails off in an arc!"? True Story.
That link makes my heart sing Too much algorythmic genius to behold.
I love the graphics and art style of this game. I think I'll buy it once it comes out (I won't play the beta since I'm still having fun with GalCiv 2, which I started playing only recently).
But that river is terrible to behold... its simply square, the pond where it starts looks outright unnatural, and it doesn't even end properly in the sea!!
Don't hold back your criticism of the game, but try not to criticize other forum goers Thanks!
I've played Dwarf Fortress myself but that's not the point. I'm not denying how gameplay is important for a good game, Otherwise I would not spend so much of my free time with games like Jagged Alliance, UFO, Master of Magic, Space Rangers 2, etc.. but I can't stand how someone seems convinced that spitting on the graphics will do them look wiser or far more experienced.
Denying a defect will not benefit the game in any way, even if you don't care about that defect.
It's exactly the same for me. I want Elemental to look as good as possibile, even if graphics are not its main point.
P.S. btw in this last screen you posted (which is slightly better than some previous ones, I admit it ) human models concern me far more than a blocky river, to be honest. They are simply bland, poor in detail and quality as much as in art style. My suggestion: if you think you can afford to put some extra effort in game's aesthetic, that's where you have to intervene.
sweet, i think i might be able to run this on my laptop!
I want more pictures but asking you to post them would take up your time and then everyone will blame me, and W. Bush, for there not being a beta 2 this week.
Please Post More Pics!
I am not a big fan of the art style especially the characters but I still will buy the game since I buy all SD products. I wish it was more like the Warhammer series Dawn of War 2 art style for the characters etc. Mean looking mofos.
Awesome.
Thanks for posting that. Honestly, in my opinion, that looks waaaay better than most of the screenshots I've seen! In the latest video Brad posted, he demonstrated that there is a detail slider, and I suspect that most of the screenshots have been with that turned really low. The screen you post there comes surprisingly close to the original!
<minor aside> WHOAH, just noticed the guy in the bottom right. That is a HUGE sword! No way he can hold that one handed!</minor aside>
I agree about the river stuff (does the river HAVE to end in the middle of the tile, is that the issue? Also, in the empire land on the straight portion, every river tile is the same. Two trees on one side, on rock on the other. Just fyi. Also, in the olds, you had a split (island) and an elbow. These two tiles would continue to help out rivers without breaking any restrictions on begin/end at mid tile (if such exists).
I really have to admit, I like that shot you posted. All the important details are clear, but I still have that "flavor" that brings the world to life (in my opinion). Mind if I ask you whether that was made by hand, or randomly generated? If hand done, are we going to see that level of "flavor/life" in the world in a randomly generated (well, seeded) map?
Thanks for your patience, Boogie. I know you must be sick of people complaining about the art style. It's things like this that sell me on the visual styles, and I appreciate your patience, and your details.
Still no comment about parallax mapping? https://forums.elementalgame.com/383316
theprogress: Replied
cyrogenic: I really never get sick of talking about the art style, but the way we're developing the game (engine and game in tandum) has made 'selling' the style a real uphill battle. Most major companies have the visuals NAILED before really showing the public. You guys were along for the whole ride, of which we still have ground to make before the art team is truly happy with the result.
That said, and knowing what's in the pipeline, I can see being very pround of what gets shipped. Even if the first round of Beta 2 builds dosent knock you over, we have a few further bits to implement that should make Elemental shine.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Good one, Winter!
RofL..... is nice
I am very interested in turning up the GROUND COVER option come B2 now.
twitch twitch
No need to apologize, I think it's pretty funny. Even if it's a huge bullshit.
I haven't posted here in a long time, but somebody mentioned shadows and I have to agree that adding some simple drop shadows would lift the graphics immensely. To take a somewhat extreme example, check these screenshots of Crysis, one with low shadow settings and one with high (copy-paste the links):
http://www.tweakguides.com/images/Crysis_12a.jpghttp://www.tweakguides.com/images/Crysis_12d.jpg
There is a huge difference, but look away from the most obvious differences (such as the brightness, duh), and notice how the objects blend in to each other MUCH more naturally. The best example is probably the shack in the background in the top right corner. Notice how it "comes forth" from the jungle when shadows are enabled, instead of looking pasted onto the jungle. Without shadows it looks really 2D. I think some shadows would heighten the mood and make the game more immersive (perhaps some pseudo day/night cycles?). Case in point is the screenshot in post 70, I suppose. The things in it look good on their own, but the buildings dont feel like they're really in the landscape, but rather on the landscape, if you know what I mean.
I do realize that the game has some shadows, but from what I've seen, they're just simple blob shadows right?
(I like the artstyle and graphics other than that, though. Looking forward to beta 2!)
Zamul, most sites don't like hotlinking as you've done there with your images, and usually block it. Neither of the two linked pictures load.
Copy and paste does work though.
P.S. Why is the engine named after a (albeit awesome) fruit? BTW, if you've never had a kumquat, go get one. They're both sweet and sour depending on whether you're tasting rind or meat.
Huh, weird, it worked before. Updated the post...
I guess I'm on the other side as well, If that makes me a fanboi, so be it.
IMHO the picture you reference is just too 'cute and friendly' for a world that is in turmoil. I would agree that the newer image is not as sharp and that may or may not be fine-tuned before launch, but I do find it better suited to the hostile environment. As far as being bland/clean, I think that is just a matter of preference. At least we know that we will be able to adjust the density of 'filler objects' so that should help.
Personally I like the darker feel, but I'll want a little more detail on the map. Everyone will have their opinion on every aspect of Elemental, but the devs can only make it one way. Right now they are following their vision, but also giving us the tools to make it our own. Hopefully, you or another player will mod the game to your liking.
I do appreciate that you are speaking your mind though, especially when your 'voice' is a lonely one.
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