Elemental makes use of a brand new 3D engine developed specifically for PC strategy games. Its multithreaded design along with dynamic LOD (level of detail) allows for it to look great on a wide range of hardware.
To see and understand why Elemental can look good on low end hardware and yet benefit further from higher end hardware see for yourself how the dynamic LOD works:
Look very very closely here. This isn’t one 3D object. This is dozens of 3D objects. The engine determines how powerful your hardware is and based on that can choose to display objects based on that.
As more objects come into view, certain “less important” objects start to fade away:
Did something change?
Look closely. Did something change?
How about now?
As a result of the object-based system that Kumquat provides, the graphics look identical at a casual glance and yet, the polygon count is dramatically less in the third image.
And users with very low end hardware can simply play using the sprite based output (cloth map mode):
Because Kumquat is a PC-only graphics engine, it can make a different set of trade offs than the traditional cross-platform engine. Namely, it can assume players have a considerable amount of memory (1 gigabyte is the minimum total system memory to play a Kumquat based game – very little on a PC but twice what a current generation console has). Thus, a given game object can be made up of many sub-objects (which use more memory) but can be dynamically turned on or off based on 3D hardware instead of having to load up lower-quality 3D models.
Wow, what an embarassing bunch of Captain Obvious Superfriends we have here.
Totally agreed.
People going out of their way to look like hardcore purists when in fact they end up looking quite dumb. Just like the Master of Orion III fans....
If Elemental would have had graphics like Master of Magic then I would laugh at it, make fun of it and pass on it.
There are certain visual standards that need to be fulfilled. But I'm like 80% certain I won't be disappointed in the graphics. We've also been told that there will be PixelShader 4.0 effects
So you don't like the graphics. Got it.
I meant that the graphics should be better than MoM (but doesn't have to be much better, 640x480 with 256 colors and 2D sprites (like HoMM1-2) would be enough).
I like it, maybe it's not "stunning", but it's quite interesting and original. My post about MoM graphics only meant that it's not very important for me.
It's just a guess, but you probably won't get the discussion back on the topic of graphics (rather than the "dev time should be spend on X" derail) this way.
That said, I agree with you. The current screenies look boxy and lifeless compared to the early concept screenies. I don't think it's the art style as such, it looks more like it's a matter of practicality. The concept screenies were probably mock-ups of what SD wanted the game to look like, but the reality of infinite zoom, tiles, modability and how much various objects have to scale to be recognisable from any zoom level, probably necessitated the difference.
I hope it will change. I doubt it, but I really hope so. The art direction lends itself really well to map-seamlessness &.. I dunno what to call it, visual flow? - The mock-ups definitely had that. They were very evocative, really. The current shots are pretty much the opposite.
Ideally the composition should be such that any screen capture would make an interesting still image. The mock-ups manage that (but then, I assume that's exactly what they were), but I haven't seen anything current that would.
And as for the grognards: I really couldn't care if it's PixelArt, Crysis or something else entirely. As long as the visuals support the interface, the art direction is evocative, consistent and supports the gameplay, and neither visuals nor interface falls apart when windowed or in various resolutions, I'll be perfectly happy with it. Sometimes a single guy can manage that in a month. Sometimes a triple-A game with a multi-million dollar budget, piles of artists & years of development time can't manage it at all. I'm not suggesting text adventures & ASCII games aren't fun, but Elemental is neither. So let's try to offer the kind of feedback that'll make the graphics support the game in the best possible way, yeah?
Can you explain how the screenshot in reply 70 is "boxy"? I guess I'm not understanding what you're looking for.
I look at #70 and see a lot of detail.
It looks fine to me, the only issues I see is that the ore deposit looks kinda 2d, it doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the terrain, and the ridge of the hill looks weird, like there's no snow there. But I'm sure that's only because the graphics are a WIP.
Not that I'm picky about graphics.
The ridge having a line like that is part of the illustrative art style (it's not supposed to look realistic, it's supposed to look illustrated).
Ah, ok, that makes sense, it looks fine, and like I said I don't care much about graphics, I just want fun gameplay.
I can try, at least.
The screeny in #70 looks like a composite of disparate parts. I think it's mainly because the transition between tiles is too abrupt/evident, but it's also because it looks a bit.. drab isn't exactly the right word, because I think it has something to do with the colours, but I'm not sure it's to do with a lack of them. It just looks lifeless and uninteresting, I guess. I wish some artsy person would have a go at translating my gibberish into something more comprehensible, because it's a bit outside my skillset.
I find the textures enjoyable. #70 looks good but maybe it shines better in animation as opposed to a still frame. Personally, I see a huge difference in the editor movies we just got and this picture. I will still hold my judgement on good or bad graphics until release and even then I really just don't put that much into graphics.
That picture was from the editor.
I meant editor movie vs. editor screenshot.
I have from the very beginning felt like the graphics ahd almost a stained glass quality to them. I thought it was a pretty bold move and I personally like it a lot.
Yes you are not going to be able to get as sharp of an image, things are going to be more muted and the coolness factor is in the gutsy move to go with an art look that looks like art, rather than something that reaches out of the monitor and gives your retinas a sugar high.
Certainly those who don't like it are entitled to their opinion. But their opinions sound to me like 6 year olds complaining about a steak dinner because what they really really want is twinkies and soda pop. And I am not even bringing the paramount importance of gameplay into the equation, I am talking strictly art style.
I really really hope the gameplay is there. This game is never going to satisfy those that think graphics that do not strain the capabilities of a 1 Gig graphics card suck. Call me a fanboi, I think the graphics are beautiful and applaud SD for going for something non-conventional. If the gameplay is there, this game is an instant classic. And so far, SD has not disappointed in the gameplay department.
I've seen a lot of replies saying "The World looks Barren. Put some tree's or stumps or something in there.". Now, that comment does make sense, But, people need to remember the Lore. The world has been Destroyed...Laid To Waste....Totally F'Ked Up!!! I.E The Cataclysm. Think about what our world would look like after a major nuclear event. Picture Hiroshima or Nagasaki minus the rubble from the cities. If not for the rubble from the man-made buildings, there would have been Nothing Left of those cities after they were nuked. The Whole World of Elemental is supposed to look like that at the start of the game. There are No Tree's or Shrubs growing, no grass, no nothing but blasted landscape. It's Supposed to be Barren.
Then a Sovereign brings the land back to life/death (according to faction) and things can start to grow and thrive once again, or break out into smoldering lava and rock if you use Death Magic.
Point I'm making though is what I said above....
The Whole World of Elemental is supposed to look like that at the start of the game. There are No Tree's or Shrubs growing, no grass, no nothing but blasted landscape. It's Supposed to be Barren.
A big part of our objective for Elemental's art style is that in a screenshot you would say "That's Elemental". So many games go for the "Realistic" art style that it's easy to confuse one with the other.
In Elemental, you are, after all, zooming in from multi continent view down to seeing individual people living their lives in the city. That's a huge scale level that I think pays off as you are building your own world in the game.
Moreover, in a game where there are so many different kinds of "goodie huts", quests, NPCs, creatures, ruins, etc. it's important for things to look pretty but also stand out.
People who want to have a super detail looking world can certainly make that with the tools but that's not the look we're going for in the maps that get generated.
In that Civilization shot, you're seeing flat with some hills with a texture. In Elemental, because it's illustrative style, the textures are "smooth" with objects on top of it to give it more detail.
So far I like the art style in general, but more so the technical ability of this engine seem's wonderful.
There is one thing I definitely aren't fond of, however. Cell shaded isn't the right word, someone else described it as "stained glass". That's probably a lot more accurate. I don't really like the big thick outline that seems to appear on many objects, and I hope this is some sort of filter we can turn off ala Champions online.
Really looking forward to this game
While probably being a significant task, if someone really disliked the current art style. Is it possible to mod it to something more realistic?
Complete agreement on this. It's a different genre but I think Borderlands is a good example of an artsy look that served to make a game more memorable. When Gearbox announced the switch to the shaded cell approach, a lot of people whined about the lack of "realism". I think history has proven the whiners wrong.
Quite frankly, I am tired of "realistic" graphics that have become a reductio ad absurdum. I mean, is being able to see every screw in your weapon a benefit to the gameplay? Is being able to count the whiskers on the face of a soldier somehow more immersive? Not for me. In my opinion, the endless quest for hyper-realistic graphics have achieved little more than making a bunch of games that run like molasses on anything but a cutting edge PC with no real benefit to offset that detriment.
I, for one, want to see more devs become artistically expressive when it comes to gaming. A photograph has its uses, but a painting is far more interesting.
Took me a while to fully eliminate the mouse issues. The game is 10x more fun when controls aren't in the way.set bEnableMouseSmoothing=Falsein \Alpha Protocol\APGame\Config\DefaultInput.ini then 2 instances of that same var in\My Documents\Alpha Protocol\APGame\Config\APInput.ini Also set in \My Documents\Alpha Protocol\APGame\Config\APEngine.inithe following: [Engine.GameEngine]bSmoothFrameRate=FALSEMinSmoothedFrameRate=1024MaxSmoothedFrameRate=4096 [SystemSettings]UseVsync=False (The VSync option in the game does nothing, you have to change it manually) And finally after all customizations set all user config files in \My Documents\Alpha Protocol\APGame\Config\ to read only.
// Edit What this does is remove that sudden mouse speedup when your framerate drops beneath certain threshold - therefore it eliminates mouse imprecision. It really helps and seriously improves the gameplay.
Is the HDR turned off on that picture ? I remember a picture that showed hdr on/off and the difference was huge.
Well said Den!
I personally like the art style very much, it fits very well with this type of game / setting ( & the cloth map is a very nice touch as well).
"The Whole World of Elemental is supposed to look like that at the start of the game. There are No Tree's or Shrubs growing, no grass, no nothing but blasted landscape. It's Supposed to be Barren"
Just remember that :
1) Fallout 3 had a blasted landscape as well, but you couldn't say it was empty, I actually got tired from all that debris there.
2) A blasted landscape, doesn't need to be disliked just because is blasted. Props here and there make the world richer & alive. I'm sure the devs will fix this, it's just a matter of decoration & effort spent on the premade maps.
And a few comments for #70, as it seems fairly representative :
The individual elements are beautiful, but as said above, they seem 'detached'. This is because of the lack of shadows in many places. I mean, it's not that you need shadowmaps or extreme detail, but at least a bit of ambient shadowing/darkening in the terrain underneath. This is further pronounced in #70 where you have snow (white) vs rocks (really dark), and the white tone of the snow is further accentuated by what seems a specular highlight, while the other elements aren't offered any such treatment.
And a note about detail & zoom levels :
As most people seem to not care THAT much about the graphics, & the ones that do have criticised the normal view, I see the point of supporting extreme zoom levels a bit misguided.. The level of polish for a given view should be directly proportional to the time spent on that view. Yes, you can get some very pretty pictures for marketing stuff from a very zoomed in view, but that doesn't mean that everybody that will buy the game will zoom in all the time. It reminds me the screenshots in RTS in which they always show viewpoints & zoom levels that you never want to use. And that's why Civ4 had the previously shown zoom level extremely polished, as from playtesting the probably figured out that that's the zoom level everybody spends most their time on.
Summary of the above : Polish & optimize for the most used zoom levels will probably keep most people happy. That is interesting data to gather in the upcoming beta if you can inject a mechanism for monitoring time spent in each zoom level.
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