Adding something like steam to help folks find matches is fine, but if that precludes or makes difficult setting up our own LAN/etc. games then those of us who do so have lost out, and we move on to other games that do allow us that.

Check out the thread here regarding Activision's takeover of Blizzard and how Activision's CEO (kotick IIRC) views games and gamers.  Forcing steam fits in with kotick's 'vision' of how game publishing should go.

Benefiting publishers is fine, as long as it doesn't hurt players.  Optional steam -- benefits all players, benefits and hurts publishers.  Forcing steam -- benefits some players and hurts others, benefits publishers.

That some publishers choose the latter is unsurprising.  That some players object to it is also.

I'm sorry, Supreme Commander 1 and Forged Alliance were "niche market games"?  If SupCom is a "niche" game, then we might as well write off RTS games from any large developers now.

I don't get how it was niche.  SupCom is a lot like Sins of a Solar Empire in its scale, and Sins of a Solar Empire has had massive sales numbers, and not just for a "niche" game.  Anyone who doesn't get it hasn't played it.

Saying doing it yourself is troublesome is hard to believe, as it's old technology -- games have done it for years.  If LAN, direct IP connections, players hosting, etc. is considered from the beginning, that's troublesome?

I can see it being troublesome if the devs waited til the end to implement it.  Unbelievably, some have done that, waiting til just before release.

Regarding 'expensive':

Well, when steam hands you an API/whatever of course it's more expensive to do it yourself. But does that calculation include the cost of Steamworks (or is it free?).  Does it include lost sales that would have been made had steam be an option not a requirement?

My guess is that valve structures the deal to make forced steam cheaper for the devs, to benefit valve in the long run (for reasons I stated in a previous post -- information gathering, increasing market share, etc.).  Currently valve benefits, devs benefit and lose, and players benefit and lose.  If this continues then at some point, when steam is the rule, then things will change for the worse (for gamers and devs both), and that we're pretty much at the tipping point right now.

I've seen several. Keep in mind with Steam being the big fish in the small pond that is the digi stores, they're also a big target for hacking, fraud and other issues that may not actually be the owner of the account's fault. And their current stance seem to be disable/ban now, ask questions later.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275429

Hello Voniazmogis, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. We have found activity in the Steam account related to fraudulent credit card use. Per the Steam Subscriber Agreement, we have disabled the account and any games contained in it. The account will not be reactivated. The Steam Subscriber Agreement can be found at: http://www.steampowered.com/v/index....iber_agreement In addition to violation of contract, said activities on the account may violate state and federal law. Valve reserves the right to refer the matter to the appropriate authorities.
**

This sounded like some sort of gift giving fraud issue, and they did not remove just the games involved, the entire account was banned.

I should mention my own personal issue with Valve Customer No Service. After three months of trying to retrieve an old account, which should have been deleted but was still somehow died to one of my e-mail accounts so I couldn't create a new one with the same e-mail, I created a new one. I had the old one for a beta of some sort, no paid content but dear god, dealing with those folks was a joke. They'd send me a new reset password every three days that still didn't work. And at the time, they had no phone support. I have zero confidence in their csr, so the ban first check things out later is certainly not okay with me. (once again people I have a total of 10 dollars paid to Valve... so me being a steam member doesn't necessarily equate to me liking the service).

I mean I could fill pages with links of people who had their accounts banned or "disabled" for things like hacked games, cheats, VAC violations, chargebacks (of any kind), payment methods that don't go through properly (I think some of these can be reinstated). I have no love for cheaters, believe me. I am not sure someone caught cheating in MW2 should have their $2,000 gaming library stolen from them though. I also don't expect 13 year olds to behave like they are 30.

 I mean just look at Valve's message.

I've Been Banned

Question

I receive the error "Your connection to this secure server has been rejected. Because of past cheating violations, you have been banned from playing on all secure servers." when attempting to join a server - what does it mean?

Answer

I am sure some people know darn well why they've been banned, and don't need the details. I am sure some behavior is unforgivable. I also sure no system is 100% accurate too. I have a lot more confidence with Stardock that if my account is hacked, something weird happens that their people might actually give a shit. I have no confidence Valve does. Use any search engine you want, there are a fair amount of posts about accounts being banned or disable (I am not even sure is there is a difference between being banned or disabled). Seems like some of the prepaid cards come up a bit because they can't be charged. If someone gifts you a game and that payment falls through it effects your account (although I can see how this could be used as an act of fraud I doubt steam looks into it real well),

Valve considers ALL chargebacks as "payment fraud" by the way.

Payment Fraud

Any fraudulent credit card use, credit card chargebacks, or Paypal chargebacks (regardless of when the transaction occurred).

Redeeming Fraudulent Gifts

Never accept a gift from an unknown user. Any accounts tied to a redeemed gift from a fraudulent source may be disabled.

Here is a link from the consumerist (they tend to verify their stories to some extent)

http://consumerist.com/2009/01/help-steam-randomly-charged-me-in-pounds-instead-of-dollars.html

Notice how they suggest a chargeback. I am sure The Consumerist didn't know at the time that a chargeback is pretty much throwing away your entire Steam account out the window with no recourse. I know chargebacks should be the last option but Valve just doesn't respond.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I do not think it is acceptable that an account with 500, 1000, 2000 or whatever amount of money worth of games is disabled over one exchange. If there is a problem with an exchange, lock that content and figure it out. Valve's way is lazy and prone for abuse.

Funny seeing that banned message from Steam... so they actually do check for hackers eh?  Do you know how many hackers I see online in COD6?  Or used to see?  I quit playing it.

I hate Steam, I hate the fact I have to install 3rd party softare to play something I paid $60 for, even in single player mode.  I got ticked off at Steam the other day and removed it from the computer, and whala, Cod got removed too.  Had to put it back, because right now my 11 yo. son is addicted.

I'm waiting for the day he goes to log on and he can't because the account is banned.  We got to the 10th prestige due to hacks - not hacks we were using ourselves - but hacks nonetheless.  Every so often that 'prestige hack' pops up in a game, where you kill the person using it and it bumps you up to prestige level.  If it happens to me, I leave the game, I would leave 'without saving' and reset my level, but you can't do that.  If it happens to my son, he stays in the game and goes after that person, he likes getting all the stuff unlocked right away.  I"m more of a diyer. 

Anyway, that boy has made too many friends on Steam, everytime I see it logged on, there's at least one window saying 'so&so is playing whatever'.  If he hears that little 'bloop' meaning a chat has popped up, he comes running over "What did he say?  Tell him I'll play later!"  All I do is hit the X.  Who gives a damn?  One of his friends even made the damn pc ring like a telephone, it's bad enough there's about a half-dozen neighborhood kids ringing our house phone all day long, now kids are gonna be ringing the pc too? 

I've been threatening to pull CoD off the computer & snap the disks in half, and it just may happen.  It would feel so damn good.  /rant

So what does the game use it for, just managing updates and contacts?  I guess that explains why so many hackers abound in multi.

i hated steam back in HL2 days, as i saw it as nothing more than DRM. today, its one of the only shining beacons in PC gaming.

It doesn't...  I didn't realize Steam had a mp service that checked for hackers & banned offenders until I read this thread.  Afterwards, I incorrectly assumed that since MW2 uses Steam, then Steam must be running their mp service as well, and that's what made me laugh because here I read someone got banned, yet I used to see hackers in almost every game I joined.  But now I've been set straight.  Still hate the service though, probably not Steam's fault but more because of what my kid did to it, with his enormous friends' list and their chat windows constantly popping up.  I have to shut Steam off every day, why?  I disabled the 'start with Windows' bit, yet it still runs.  It's like a gremlin, infesting my machine.

PC gaming will end up depending on places like steam. As steam will be the biggest and most successful, it’s the most important.

Right... and Apple screwed up big time and will never amount to anything. Oh wait, that's right... a lot can change in a relatively short period of time.