http://store.steampowered.com/news/3792/
I wonder if this means Brad Wardell will stop working with Civ V.
I just can't support DRM, that while not TOO bad, helps enforce a near-monopoly. This may be a blow to the other DD providers- as this is the biggest game to do this so far.
Hopefully EWOM is everything I want, because now I'm relying on it.
(Note: I do use Steam, I just won't support being forced to use it on non-Valve products)
+1 Karma for that one.
I don't care what he article says. I purchased Tropico via Impulse. Guess where I have to go to get updates... Impulse. Now I am not sure who made that decision, but it's that way now. Kudos II was the same way, different patches for different closed platforms Impulse and Steam.
Locking in Civ 5 with Steam is just a smart business decision by both companies. Steam gets a must play exclusive, and 2k gets the massive playerbase of Steam and a proven and tried platform, with reasonable DRM. Having Civ 5 blasted in the face of every Steam user after they close a game for months at a time couldn't hurt, either.The only way I can see Impulse competing is if you guys get more aggressive with your tactics. I hardly buy anything from Impulse other than your exclusives, because I have no reason to visit Impulsedriven.com. Steam, I open every day so I can play TF2 and chat with my gaming buddies. Steam also has much better prices and sales on triple-A titles. I mean, I got Borderlands and Bioshock 2 for $33 a piece ON RELEASE.Don't read my post as hating on Impulse. I actually like it as a consumer, but I just have so few reasons to use it as my main purchasing platform, and I think that's true with a lot of gamers in general.
As a consumer, you don't seem to understand the main concern here. Do you know what happens when there is a single victor in a market war, consumers get hosed. CIV 5 on Steam is not smart business for 2k, it's lazy. You act like its either or, that 2K could distribute Civ V on Steam or make it available on Impulse and retail. The truth is they could have done both. A lot of publishers do both.
Now seriously, does Tropic 3 come with Impulse Reactor?
The most aggressive decision Stardock could take is a takeover of Paradox, or at least Gamersgate.
Combine Impulse+GG marketshare, and you have around 16% I think. That's enough to have muscle against Steam.
I don't know why you bothered to comment if you couldn't even bother to look that up because you are obviously not familiar with the game.
Like Windows is completely hosing the OS market, and how all PC games are on Windows? Is Windows suddenly going to start charging developers $20 per sale to develop games on Windows? No, Microsoft is not stupid.
Steam has already won the online distribution war, as much as Windows has won the OS war.
Like I said before, if Valve gets stupid, people will flock to the consoles completely. They're not stupid. They're still a PC only company, and they're not going to dig themselves into a hole on a platform that they have so much invested in. Developers and consumers can both migrate to consoles at the drop of a hat. Steam is not going to be stupid enough to make them do that.
Here let me educate some people with the history of IMPULSE which is what we are talking about.
Impulse
The argument in question was whether or not Steam or Impulse did the 75% off deals first. Brad stated Impulse started it and nobody who said otherwise had any facts to back up what they said, then someone came back with facts backing up that Steam did it first. Why you started commenting is beyond me.
P.S. Don't use humongous words like elucidate when you have no knowledge of how to properly utilize them in a sentence. Don't be ashamed about being at a 7th grade writing level. There is no need to pretend further education.
You think Windows as is is ideal? Seriously? Did you miss that last few decades where Microsoft took its position in the market and abused it's power to the tune of court cases? What they did was illegal buddy. They're still getting fined.
I mean seriously, how old are you? You realize that Microsoft didn't start in the lead right, or were you born in MSFT world and now you think you know everything there is to know? Steam hasn't won anything. Digital distribution is barely even mainstream in a industry where technology can change the lanscape tomorrow in almost instant.
Your argument is so weak on so many levels that you have to result to console wars now? You're all over the place with this.
Oooh, resorting to age questioning. That really strengthens your argument. If you're curious, I'm only 25 and have been working as a web developer on the .NET platform for 4 years, with a little bit of tech support and network administration on the side, so that is the angle I'm coming from. I love that my entire office uses one OS. I actually wish there was only one main browser I had to work around, but that's not the way it is. Maybe when you try getting CSS to work right on 3 different browsers, and then getting certain scripts to work for different configurations, you'll appreciate the idea of working on one platform, no matter how closed it is (Steamworks, AppStore). I love what Microsoft does for developers, and find them acceptable as a consumer. Dreamspark, MCAA, Bizspark are all AMAZING developer tools. Windows is far from ideal, but for all its dominance, it is a very open platform. Steamworks is more closed, but no more than something like the AppStore.
How does Microsoft not starting in the lead have to do with anything? Obviously, no one starts in the lead unless they're the first company to make something, and that barely lasts very long.
You keep going off on tangents and fail to address my main points. Can you dispute the fact that Steam is the leader in distributed sales, by a large margin? Can you dispute the fact that MAJOR, AAA titles such as MW2 and Civ 5 are Steam exclusives? What else does Steam have to do to convince you that they've already won. You can rally against Steam's evil empire, just as many rally against Microsoft's evil empire, but at the end of the day, everyone uses Windows, and everyone uses Steam. They work. If they stopped working, people would move somewhere else. I just mention consoles because while Windows has a vice grip on the OS market (with OS X with an actual significant chunk), Steam, even if it ate up ALL the rest of PC game sales, obviously wouldn't eat up any console sales. They have everything to lose if their platform doesn't please both developers and consumers.
Console wars were brought in by several people in this thread and were validly used to support their argument standpoint.
He also never said Windows is ideal, merely that it is the dominant OS.
You're not as awesome at debate as you think you are.
Go ahead, attack willy nilly anyone that opposes your viewpoint. It makes you both real intelligent. I am actually one of the people in this thread who uses Steam and Impulse, and I have gripes about both of them. He wants one browser, one OS, one digi storefront. That viewpoint is very narrow-minded.
Console wars is not a valid viewpoint because this idea that suddenly PC gaming will die and jump to consoles only has been brought up year after year after year after year after year and still hasn't happened. Is Steam took a nose dive tomorrow, PC gaming isn't going to end as we know it. To a couple of over zealous steam users, I am sure it would feel that way.
You're need to result to insults, doesn't strengthen your viewpoints either. Do keep going though.
This thread is turning into a flame war. You lads are overracting the situation imo. If you are a Civ fanatic, buy the game...Steam or not. If I would be a big Civ fan, I would buy it...but I am not a big fan of the game actually.
That's my entire point. Steam already has a choke hold on PC digital distribution and NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED. Even if, as some people think, Steam engulfs all PC digital sales (and we ignore retail PC game sales...), gamers will still have the console gaming market.
Developers love having only one platform to publish to. The only reason to publish to multiple platforms is because it makes them more money. Unfortunately, Impulse, D2D and others are such small platforms that a few are now choosing Steam as the only PC platform they develop for, because that's where the profit is.
Keep in mind, you're the only person to insult anyone in this thread first by questioning my age. I invite you to invite some moderators into this thread to see who started insulting who.
Direct from Elemental product pages off Stardock's website (both LE and Std edition):
I'm sure there's also a serial number that I'll have to register. Hmm...... what does it register through? Oh yeah, Impulse.
I can play multiplayer on Stardock's servers? Cool where do I signup? Oh yeah, Impulse.
Hey I'm a modder too, where do I upload mods to? You mean Impulse? (That's explained in the Elemental for Dummies thread)
Seems pretty clear to me.
@DeCypher. Steam clearly does not have a chokehold on the PC digital distribution market. If it did, everyone would have to put their titles on it to be commercially viable.
According to Valve, they have 25 million accounts. That's about the number of *consumer* PCs that Dell ships each year. It's about the amount of unique visitors Gamespot.com gets per day.
Steam has a huge lead in digital distribution and is likely to lead for the foreseable future, perhaps the indefinite future. But describing digital distribution is a done deal is as silly as saying that MySpace.com has a permanent dominance for social networking.
You will know the day that Steam has a choke hold on the market - when they start making requirements on software to be carried on Steam (i.e. must use Steamworks for instance).
I can fully appreciate that Brad. Good luck with Elemental.
Yet again, the difference is that you can play your game to hearts delight right out of the box without ever touching Impulse. You can't do that with Steam.
EDIT: Yes, if you want extras such as updates you need to download Impulse. But for multiplayer, just create an account, you don't need Impulse. Unlocking games doesn't require registration, only CD key, which doesn't need Impulse.
Here's the primary problem I have with your argument. You are talking about a big fish in a swimming hole in an market that is an ocean. Steam has what... 70% of maybe 20% of the market. Steam doesn't even touch the B&M sales. Walmart gobbles up Amazon and Steam combined last I checked. You can't just ignore retail market for the sake of argument. The majority games are still being purchased physical disc. All it will take is one storefront, one idea that is more appealing to those consumers of physical discs to hop over Steam and gain the lead. Steam is not that appealing to people who like discs. It just isn't and neither impulse. Sure, they're relatively new but they're not so new that gamers are unaware of the choice.
At this point in time, a lot of consumers, the majority, still prefer actual discs. I happen to be one of those people. I will use digi stores at discounts, but Steam isn't ideal for me. My mentality, at the moment, is the majority. That can change, I know that. But right now Steam is claiming 1st place in a race that isn't even in the finales. Steam is not in this perfect position Steam supporters think they are in. Are they a good position, yes. Perfect, too big to fail, game over position... no.
As to your last point, we don't have moderators on these forums wagging fingers at people like children. Age is not an insult, it's a fact. There are ton of people on this forum that happen to be a lot older than I am. Heh, i am not even that old, but I am old enough to remember Microsoft as the big gorilla that bullied around the industry. They're not some saint company. It boggles the mind that some people would want Steam to pick up their play book and run with it.
Brad, you are entirely correct. Chokehold was a poorly chosen word. But it is still indeed the current number one digital distributor.
My very absolute, main point is this: Even if it were to dominate the digital market (which I think it already kind of is, and others are free to disagree, and do, haha), there are factors such as the brick and mortar stores selling PC games, and console games. If Valve were to abuse its power in any blatant way, consumers and developers could easily move to one of those other channels. Thus, Valve will still be forced to compete, though perhaps at the expense of other, smaller digital distributors.
The myspace comparison is actually an apt one, and a great counterpoint to my Windows comparison, though with one glaring omission: people have invested hundreds of dollars into a Steam account. I guess we will have to see where everything is in a few years.
Everything have an end. The dinosaurs ( MS and Steam ) will die out soon. The evolution continues.
I'm amazed that so many people have intermittent internet connections. I have cable internet, and it's on 99% of the time - and when there are severe storms that cause the internet to go out.. guess what? I'm not getting on my computer to play a game in offline mode, I'm turning off and unplugging what I need to to make sure nothing gets fried.
I've had Steam since HalfLife 2, and am amazed at the level of ignorance in this thread! "Oh yeah, if only Steam has the game, gamers will get screwed because there will be no competition!" - Yeah, that's why I can currently purchase Civilization 4 Complete for 75% off ($10USD), why I'm presented with numerous sales on a "specials" page, and why I'm given the opportunity to test current games via a "free weekend" deal. Also, I can easily visit specific game forums and get an idea of what consumers think of a game before I purchase it, consistently.
There are moments in a persons life where taking a stand against something is bold and admirable...people who take a stand against having to launch a program before they launch their game are missing the point, in my opinion.
I wonder if there's an alternate universe where Civ5 is being sold in a nice big box, with a nice big manual, and the special edition has a little statue of the hanging gardens, and i can play it multiplayer over my lan with just one disk, and the phantom menace was good.
I want to live there.
[quote who="KickACrip" reply="146" id="2613694"]I've had Steam since HalfLife 2, and am amazed at the level of ignorance in this thread! "Oh yeah, if only Steam has the game, gamers will get screwed because there will be no competition!" - Yeah, that's why I can currently purchase Civilization 4 Complete for 75% off ($10USD), why I'm presented with numerous sales on a "specials" page, and why I'm given the opportunity to test current games via a "free weekend" deal. Also, I can easily visit specific game forums and get an idea of what consumers think of a game before I purchase it, consistently. [/quote]
Your Civ IV argument is a pretty poor choice. Let me tell you why. First, Civ IV complete has no DRM. You can buy the physical disc and not be bothered with the disc again. This means the Steam version is almost inferior in that it adds DRM. I say almost becaause depending on where you purchase it, you may or may not have the ability to download it again at will. Civ IV is old, it's been out awhile now. It's not like Steam takes a brand new game on release day and sells it for 10 dollars. Civ IV can be purchased on sale from D2D for 9.95. Civ IV has so many choices as to where you can purchase it and still enjoy the same benefit it is actually counter intuitive to your argument.
No one here is saying Steam is crap. No one says these little benefits you are talking about is bad.
Not having a choice, always bad, always bad for the consumer even if the consumer thinks otherwise for awhile. It's not a new tactic to move into an area, undersell your competitors, try to drive them out of business so you can what exactly... oh right, when they are gone, you get to control prices again, and they will go up.
Except for the one disk thing (and the phantom menace thing), the others might still happen. I'm actually holding out to see if they announce a nice boxed copy (you still have to install Steam, though).
Yep, the retail copy will also use Steam of course. The pirates won again?
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