Was smurfing a major factor in why new people dont play Sins of a Solar Empire online?, or was it another reason?
Everyone can have there say those and Vote, but I like views on new people.
Please layout your Forum posts like this:
Yes or No (answer)
then give us a reason why you chosen your answer.
Thank you
Poll Results
Yes:
GreyFox2
GoaFan77
Derek06
Zoomers
MyFist0
ChaoticMagician
Azrak
No:
SwerydAss
Onigiri
EadTaes (Not sure if he meant no, or it didnt really matter to him)
Princeofstar
Mecha-Lenin
Quar
Twilight_Storm
DirtySanchezz
BlackHawk141
Agent of Kharma
Myles
No
Only reason for me not playing had to do with desync issues.. I like challenges... So bring it on smurfs!!
No.
I stopped playing because the online community is not kind to noobs.(Me)
Also, I see no reason why smurfs should even be an issue. If you plan your strategy off of knowing who your opponent is, then you're reactive, not intuitive. Playing someone you don't know(Or whose Ientity you don't know) encourages intuitive strategy, not "So-in-so makes all LRF, I'ma make all fighters and rape him HAHAHAHAHA!"
As it is, people spam, and if they fail they cry smurf, as if that was the reason they lost.
-Twilight Storm
twilight ask greyfox or mindseye to help you, they are friendly and are kind to new people.
I finally worked out the basics(though greyfox and me are not on god terms now i think thanks to the skirantra obligation thread. Thanks for the advice tho. I'm actually just starting out playing the Distant Stars mod for the first time and I am not foreseeing me ever going back.
This game has and has had many other issues. Right now one of the biggest issues seems to be that new players are receiving the dreaded, "Your Mesh Files Differ from the Game Host" message. Almost every night I log on I can find someone who is complaining about that.
Another problem is Impulse. Presumably there are still people out there purchasing copies of the original Sins who can't understand why the 1.05 patch they downloaded from File Storage Site will not allow them to play online.
Another problem is overall player counts--from the very start this game had low online player counts. When a game peaks at having only 280 people online just two months after its release, it's a very bad sign of things to come. It also suggests that in the future the game is going to have a difficult time retaining the bare minimum critical mass of players needed to really sustain online multiplayer activity.
Another problem that helped contribute to the low early player counts was the inability of 80% of the players to be able to host their own games. Minidumps and desyncs did not help matters much either. <Edit> Back in those days, if the game host quit the game or surrendered (or minidumped)--if the game host lost--it would end the game for everyone. The Network window would pop up and it would say "Migrating" but the games would never migrate. (I had forgotten about all of that until I read Greyfox's next post.)
This game was also plagued by a perception amongst many players that it could not possibly be played online because their 10 player FFA games against the AI on the Huge Random Multistar map took 20 hours to play, and who in their right minds would want to play a smaller map such as the Huge Random Single Star map or a smaller map with fewer players such as the Large Random Single Star.
Then the buttons are mislabeled. The Multiplayer button is for LAN games and leads to a dead-end (unless you're going to direct connect to a friend's IP). Many people probably clicked the Ironclad Online button and couldn't figure out what it was for, then clickd the Multiplayer button and concluded that the game supported LAN play only. (Remember, a large percentage of all Sins purchasers have probably never been to the Sins website and might even be playing v1.00 or 1.05.)
To top it off, this game may have appealed to purchasers who are just predisposed to playing single player and might not have appealed to the kinds of people who play online multiplayer. It could be argued that it is even the birth of a new genre (4X-RTS) and that thus there isn't a base of people who play online multiplayer in other games to really even appeal to. (They might regard it as a nursery school-paced hack of an RTS.)
So, you see, a great many other issues and problems have contributed to Sins's low online player counts. It could also be argued that if this game had the online player counts it deserves, say 300 people online at any one time, that smurfing, at least in pro games, could be eliminated by requiring players to have accounts with 100+ wins on them to play in pugs and it wouldn't be hard to actually fill those games. Friends would still smurf newer players, but not as often because they would have 4v4's and 5v5 pro games to play instead. Furthermore, if this game had an active online multiplayer community that could generate buzz on gamer forums and elsewhere, it might lead to increased sales to people who play RTS games online, perhaps resulting in a constant influx of new players, decreasing the percentage of pros who smurf relative to the overall player population.
I do agree that this game could use some sort of a CD-key based player ranking system. For example, in Savage 2 (a free to download and play melee-style FPS with some RTS elements) every player has a "Skill Factor" rating.
Yes
I would imagine you having biased results of this poll, sunny. You are asking mostly people that have remained despite the smurfing and other problems. The ones that got fed up likely no longer play or no longer check the forums if they ever did. It is a worthy attempt certainly.
As to the reasons why multiplayer has never caught on to a sizeable amount there are so many many reasons with smurfing being one. It never got a huge amount to start with due to hosting issues. Only people that port forwarded could host and when they left the game or crashed, it was game over. I remember coddling a host so many times just so the game would not end. Also big on the list were so so many crashes and desync issues. There have also been balance issues. There is no matchmaking or ranking system and of course there is the smurfing problem. Personally the smurfing problem has most made me feel like throwing in the towel and moving on. It is nice to be able to play with people I know or friends. It is also nice to have fair and even teamed games where victory is a struggle and not a foregone conclusion in either direction. It is also nice to have at least some accountability for one's behavior. With anonymity being so easy to accomplish, it gives those who behave badly free reign. Smurfing screws all that up.
As to twilight storm, I have nothing against you. I would give you pointers if you so sought them from me. I do however question your judgement considering your posts from the other thread but to each their own.
[_]-Greyfox
Smurfing never affected my decision to play or not play online.
Twilight, for what it's worth, I am also available for pointers and what not. I don't consider myself a pro, but I'm definitely not a newb. Just PM me if you want to set something up. DesConnor and I had a few rounds back and forth a while back. I hope to do more starting in May, when I get my good online connection back again.
I'm simply one of those people who never had any desire to play online.
I guess I'll vote yes.
It technically isn't why I left, but it sure kept me from even thinking about coming back.
its not newbs who piss me off online but newbs who refuse to listen and think they are not newbs that are annoying and lead to booting and negative treatment.
a couple basic tips to twighlight. build lots of ships but few capitals (1-2 is enough) keep your fleet alive by retreating when necisary and scout scout scout
i would help you on ICO twilight as long as you listened...
as for smurfing
YES it did very much contribute to the decline of sins. I myself still play (and smurf lol) but i know alot of players who stopped playing becuase of smurfing. I think the game should keep track of games played on one account. and even if your on your 20th name created it still shows that you have played however many games you have
@grayfox & Agent: Thanks for the offers. Gotta wait till I get my laptop back running again first tho. Not really comfortable using this comp online for too long(It's my sister's and I have a feeling something's up with it...) Should be able to lay online in the next 2 weeks or so, tho.
Yes.
Can you deny that it was a problem? Did people not leave because of it? Were some of those people experienced and fun to play with?
The one problem WE as a community had control over. With mini-dumps and balance, we were at the mercy of the devs and the nature of the game. With smurfing WE had a chance to choice-correct before the problem hurt the community. We didn't. Can you deny that the community was hurt because of it? No you can't. And if you did it, you were part of that pain.
Twilight shows my point. The "community", which is mostly smurfs now, is not kind to new players; for fear that everyone that isn't "known" is a smurf. That's not what it was when 100+ people were online all the time. Twilight said no, but from what he said, we have more evidence of my reason. Twilight, the community was nicer before the smurfing got out of control. I remember, when I was new, getting help from players that became the biggest smurfs. That help turned to hate and trash talked me when they started drastically smurfing. That is why I started posting about smurfing, the trash talking came BEFORE I posted anything about smurfing NOT AFTER.
Twilight is one of many proofs, Minds is another, Klemz left DT largely because of it (more correctly, because of some that are drastic smurfers), I left, Azrak, just to name a few. Smurfing brings the tendency to be a trash talking jerk, we all know examples. And who wants to play with that? Not just old players, but all players.
To be fair Sunny we should remember those that aren't around anymore because of it. I named a few.
Who should we remember that I missed?
When I say mean people, I mean saying things like "We're gonna lose" because a noob is on the team or "We lost because of the noob"
Last ICO game I played, and I've stated this elsewhere as well, I got my HW connected to an Ice, Volcanic, and Dead asteroid, with a regular roid off the Ice so I had to start Civ in order to be able to get any planets. By the time I got the Ice world, 2 Skirantra and a pack of Assailants attacked. I didn't stand a chance. And I got blamed for the whole team losing, even though the other front was being driven back too.
If the whole team was losing, it sounds like it was a stacked team to begin with. You may have gotten some of the blame because you were the "noobiest" of the bunch or who knows what reason they blamed you. It is hard to say really not seeing the game. I don't mind noobs in the game if the teams are adjusted for it. The problem with smurfing is you never know what you get until you get in game and see unless you have personal experience with that name to know whether they are good or not. You cannot compensate and adjust the teams accordingly if you have no good way of estimating skill or lackthereof. Sometimes its difficult to balance teams even in the best of conditions much less when a smurf enters the picture.
That's just idiots being idiots.
I saw the same type comments yesterday in a game I captained in VS Quar, (who has become a major smurfer).
Instead of a "good game" at the end of what I thought was a good game-we got excuses and blame from him. "Abbadon had to be baby-sat, it's because him we lost, I thought we had better team." Funny thing is ABBADON WAS QUARS FIRST PICK.
I smiled and said to myself "OH NO!!! MY PRECIOUS SMURF STATS!!!"
Do you see the connection?
The attitude of a jerk----The actions of a smurf.
Do to team stacking. Never to play online again except IP with friends.
someone smurfed Sunnys ass with 3 skintras and he is gone now
Actualy , NO Diplo killed sins. Separate lobby divide comunity into 3 parts , dissapointed all hopes for changes and new features for multiplayer online games. Also fixing lums and buffing scintras didnt help. I didnt understand haw many people play just cause then can use " i win " button and say woow i rock. Whn the button wanished, many spammers vanished too.
All the reasons on Dirtys posts reduced new players growth to almost 0.
There were no clan race, and noone to moderate it, No single player ladder, nothing to compete .
Battles between clans ended when BIA decided they lost.
This game was created for "sale and forget" policy. Even ico server cant sustain more then 200 peeps online.
The fundamental reason why they left is not smurfing, but rather low player counts to begin with. If this game had higher player counts they could easily fill games with a requirement that players have 100+ games on their account. I think smurfing may have been a factor in some people's departures, but it's really just the last straw that broke the camel's back. I almost get the sense that you had an awful, traumatic experience with smurfs. Personally, I smurf because I don't want to have any continuity between games. I don't want So-and-So to get on his high horse and tell me about how I fucked up the game we played together last week and cost our team the game.
I do wonder how much the Skinatra buff affected the player counts. (Probably not that much.)
People can blame smurfing if they want, but smurfing had been going on for ages and yet people still played the game. The large drop in player counts correlates directly to the release of Diplomacy. If smurfing is the cause, then why didn't people stop playing 6 months ago? Why did they have to wait for Diplomacy to come out to decide they no longer wanted to play the game?
No. Smurfing didn't kill sins. I think it had very negligable effect. Ironclad killed online sins by neglecting ICO and releasing single player focused Diplo. I can understand personal vendettas, BiA/DT rivalry and other crap... but FFS. It's just too obvious. DT smurfs stacking games happened how often? 1 in 20 games? Give me a break, things like that don't decrease peak player counts from 150 to 30/40. It's the system, not naughty player behaviour.
It happened more than you would like to think. There were a lot of DT out there and they smurfed a LOT. Hell, JJ probably has as many if not more smurf games than his impressive number on his main names. It wasn't all DT smurfs either. I can say that I have had at LEAST 1 smurf in 90% or more of the games I have played and many times there were more smurfs than main name regular players. It isn't all smurfing that did it but it wasn't a negligeable effect either. I can easily rattle off a half dozen people off the top of my head that quit directly because of smurfing and said so themselves. Many of those have posted on here as such in their "goodbye" threads. Whether you smurfs like to admit it or not, it is part of the problem and something you could do something about yourselves.
Combat "smurfs" for a better community » Forum Post by Nightraid3r
Let the "noobs" learn » Forum Post by Bluster23
Petition to End Smurfing: Read if you play multiplayer » Raging Amish
SMURF problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brothers In Arms = Brothers With No Class » Forum Post by Agent of ...
Why sins MP is dying » Forum Post by top vasari
just the first 2 pages when typing smurf into the search
Don't forget maybe 5% of the community post in a forum with maybe 50% coming in to view and maybe 45% not coming to the forum at all.
Nice posts. I forgot about uber and amish. Shame really. I have a few posts of my own on the subject.
I love the top one. Nightrai3r is DTStarplayer right? If so, he has no voice on the matter anymore. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Sunny has no leg to stand on either, he smurfs to "play with clan mates" yet some his clanmates left BECAUSE OF SMURFING.
myfist0, I am not sure who you are, but I am glad you can see reason.
Yes,
When I first started playing, I had the same desync problems as everyone else. I got frustrated, and left for a time. Some time ago, I returned, and it was if the whole place had changed.
I'm a rather shy person online (bad experience several years ago, working on getting over it), and when I came back I was "greeted" by a slew of questions with people wondering if I was a smurf. When they weren't asking if I was a smurf they were just silent. There were never any conversations going on when I logged on. I made a couple friends, but by and large, I got spooked, and left again. I'm hoping the friends I made are well, but I feel just too nervous to go back online again... A slow internet connection doesn't help either...
no
i am new and ive played quite a few RTS's, however i got booted from a game addmitting i was new (wtf?)
i am not one of those noobs who sits there and justs doesnt do shit and gets pissed when u yell at him...
ill build what u advise... join u in any rush that u guys tell me to pull off
just dont kik me... please
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