So with the new design change of food being a Global resource, i started to wonder how that food just magically gets from one town to another.
I suppose the underlying theory is "if it makes the game more fun, who cares?"
As gamers, can you accept any excuse of why something is happening as long as you get enjoyment from it?
I can't waituntil we can actually play 1Z so we can know firsthand what we're talking about when debating this shit.
Well alot of us do know 'First hand' from experience with MANY Fantasy Strategy Roleplaying games AOW CIVFFH2 etc.
Not to mention Heroes, Lords of might and magic, And many others.
Not to be dismissive towards anyone i know that everyone here has a mind and thinks and their opinion is to be respected because so long as one takes the time to formulate one at all. One at least thought about their ideal's and they deserve to be respected.
Also If we play the game before we say what to change it shows that we didn't read the DEV journal's that we didn't get involved in the Development process and that we don't care and it leaves them uncertain about what to add. Besides the debate brings in more people and gets us more involved in the game ALL good for the development process.I myself wouldn't even be involved if it wasn't for this debate.
PS. If the tone of my post is abit offensive i was mearly rebuttling 'Lavitage' for his somewhat vulgar and annoying comment i do not wish to start a fight i simply wish to point out to him that some of the people arguing here *Not just myself* Are capable of debating these things without playing the game.
"More or less, agree to disagree, or at least that's how it read to me."
Agreed. So, perhaps, that is how it should be written as well.
I have been enjoying the discussion so far and that took me aback. If I misread the intent, then apology extended and I will keep the Trade route for further discourse open. LOL
You can't do that in 1Z, but you *can* do it in a global resource system if the caravans work the way I suggested they do in previous posts. 1Z is not the be all, end all of the system they're working on. It can be modified.
I've always said that caravans shouldn't just provide a % bonus. In fact, caravans should be required to access the resource at all. It doesn't make sense that you can somehow access the imperial iron supply in some backwater town that has no trade contact with the rest of the empire. If caravans aren't going there for some reason, that settlement should be limited to whatever it has locally.
So in that case if you destroy a caravan anywhere along the route, you've cut the town off until some can get through. You can also enable it so that looting a caravan loots some resources, and that allows you to steal iron. That would work better in a local system, but it's not impossible in a global one.
Yeah, me too. There was a ton of replies in a short period and I don't have time to get to them all right now.
All of the reply's..
*Heart warms* I'm glad to see so many people taking an interest in the game and helping it shape up lol.
But seriously it's nice to have more people to discuss these things with. And to see those that are here participating more.
Not taking your suggestion != ignored.
On almost every subject that is of interest to the community, there are conflicting opinions. Nobody is being ignored, but not everything the forum majority says it wants is going to happen.
I would even settle, or hope it remains in place, for the need for the infrastructure required to build "stuff" need be in place, with Caravans being abstracted to be the delivery method if one is to be sacrificed.
Caravan pilfering does sounds oh so FUN though, but I can see it having negative FUN aspects for someone who wishes to create trade but has a neighbor bent on preventing it, even at the expense of his/her own empire, just to piss someone off. What is the word for that type of neighbor?
I don't know if I can handle another "Not this Week" post really. Pretty sad, I know, but 1Z has so many of the answers or at least a caravan full of fodder for further debate. LOL
Lol Yeah John i could sacrifice one or two complex features if i had to but in all honesty. I do not want to give one inch to simplicity.
As for Tridus I agree debate is healthy and wonderful i was simply saying that i hoped no one went all 'Bit**y' about it and decided it was too much to handle or something seen people do that before and its ridiculous.
@Seth: I doubt, as I'm sure everyone here does, that the dev's would just completely ignore one side. Even if it wasn't vocalized, (written, I guess...) I'm sure the Dev's would have at least considered all their options, and taken our ideas into their world and made as much use of them as they could, and if they work, great, if not, bummer.
@Tridus: By that same token, shouldn't the army/group that plundered the caravan also need some way to cart the plundered resources back to their empire? Another Caravan would be the most obvious solution, but that doesn't seem like a smart idea, taking a Caravan with you into enemy territory... Unfortunately, I'm too tired to think of anything even resembling a solution...
@John: Agreed, and fair enough. And I've never played before at all, so you, probably having been in my position at one point, can probably imagine how it'd suck for them to tell me "Not This Week," again.
@Seth again: Yes, people can get overly heated about what should be a civilized debate towards a mutual goal... Like how I'll probably get if I don't get some sleep soon....... But damnit, I wanna play Elemental!
Well you know they could give soldiers 'Raider packs' Which were used by the vikings in a way *Sacks and satchels to store plundered goods in divided evenly between troop's a share was taken from them upon returning home and divided by their lord' It works in a similar fashion perhaps?
Indeed, I would like to test the eco changes as soon as possible. Either way...what the hell? They gonna postpone the 1Z release again?
I was just gonna say "can't you carry them away?" but packs able to be equipped to soldiers... allowing them to store more resources than a regular soldier. By golly, I think he's got it! a truly great idea.
and usually the release is done in the late evening, at least from my experience. But should they postpone again, I might be making a drive to michigan lol
I hope we can at least get a compromise because if the Dev's ignore side b entirely it will simply cause alot of infighting possibly canceled preorders etc. and none of this really works well for us as we all want to play the game and we all want to enjoy it.
your compromise is actually kinda worse than either option. if the game goes full micro, then at least you gain some advantage by micro-ing (though lord knows I hate it). If you can click a button to abstract the micro away, then what the hell are you doing all that micro for? Why did the developers spend countless hours implementing, debugging, testing, and documenting that feature? And then spend countless more hours implementing, debugging, and testing the abstraction setting?
please keep in mind the following:
A. player time is zero-sum. Time spent micro-ing caravans is time taken away from playing other aspects of the game.
B. developer time is zero-sum. Time spent developing a feature that most players are going to choose to abstract is time taken away from developing new features that will make the game distinctive.
C. the mechanic you suggest can be abstracted to formulas saving player time and dev time.
from what I've seen posted in the forums here, you're not getting micro caravans. I'm sad for you.
honestly, I feel like you are spitting in the wind a little bit here. you want a lot of micro. I think Frogboy and Stardock are trying to take out a lot of the "needless" micro, so that player time is focused on higher level (read "fun") things like building, exploring, questing and fighting.
oh, and here's a forum pro-tip for you: if you want anyone to take you seriously, it's probably best not to threaten to cancel your pre-order.
Because Microing would mean the A.I govenor's wouldn't make all the decisions Because they would all have their own independent A.I plus leaving things up to them allows them to rebell easier or have rivalry's where as doing it yourself makes it less plus even WITH A.I turned on you COULD still micro somethings to ensure YOUR plans go ahead the way you want them it simply takes the stress off.
They gonna postpone the 1Z release again? "
No No. No word yet so I guess that is a good thing.
Don't forget. This pass they also have to process all the newest Pre-Orders before releasing the new build.
So that means they have to do Pre-orders, while compiling, confirm the Pre's are completed with , email keys sent, then Stage the Impulse Server for deployment then, hopefully, BOOM! we get to download 1HaaaZ.
Hell yeah! Here we go: https://forums.elementalgame.com/379687
Personally I see caravans as a horrendous bit of micromanagement - if I'm a king while would I be dealing with horse and carts - that's what peasants and underlings are for.
A nice system for dealing with trade routes that I've seen recently was in the Total War series - where by you could block off trade along road or sea lane by parking a unit upon said road. This effectively represents you robbing every caravan coming along, without the caravans themselves having to be dealt with.
Caravans are automated right now, and presumably in 1Z as well. There is no micro with them at all, but they provide an actual thing on the map to attack to disrupt trade rather then just standing on a road.
and can be escorted/defended, based on there content wealth, as well right?
The movement of 3 stupid asses, although neede desperately, does not garner the protection level like the weekly Gold shipment to the SOV's city, right?.
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