Ya, ya; a lot of us yell pirating is wrong (even though some of us are hypocrites who have pirated stuff, you know who you are.) But, is it so wrong to pirate and use emulators for games that are 1. no longer being made or sold, and 2. games for console not even being made anymore?
I think I have to disagree here in part at least. You are right in the fact technology can and often does make people stupid and lazy. When it comes to the time difference between now and 20 years ago though, our schools do have the upper hand in some fields. Back in my day we learned how not to get kidnapped from a talking puppet and a 15 minute "after school special" between cartoon shows in the afternoon. Today however our kids have programs like D.A.R.E. and organizations like M.A.D. and sex ed classes and seminars on sexual harassment and...etc etc. Our kids are taught a lot more early on then kids 20 years ago were. I think it's safe to say kids today learn at a faster rate as well. Your example does happen, but for just as often as it makes someone lazy and stupid it makes someone else smarter and wiser. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.
It is a contradiction, yes, but it's also true. Aside from fatherhood I was ready for sex at 15. Emotional attachment? LoL what emotional attachment? I went from girl to girl to girl just as they went from boy to boy to boy. Some girls would get emotionally attached, true, but some didn't and just wanted the sex because their girlfriend said it was good. In todays world, sadly, there are plenty of girls that don't get emotionally attached over sex. Many of our younger girls even think that sex is a required part of a relationship many years before I feel they should think that way. I think being ready for sex mentally is different from being ready for sex as in responsibility. Responsibility and Maturity more often then not go hand in hand, but there are some cases when that isn't so. 15 year old girls can be ready both mentally and physically for sex, but financially they can't take care of a child and aren't ready for parenthood. Either way at that age we all "think we know everything" and a lot of us did things just because someone else told us not to, including having sex. In the mid teenage years some people are ready for sex, some aren't. It could probably even be based on a person to person case.
As for the rest, you're right. The laws need changed but won't be because they're too profitable and there are too many parent activists that would flip out if the laws were lessened in any way. No State, especially Florida, wants to look like it's soft on pedophiles or not protecting our children adequately no matter how many people's lives it ruins.
Thats why all these rules just need to be thrown out ..(except the right of consent dealing with underage sex).Down with censorship!!!!!
I am still sick of people saying it isn't a law to sell unappropriate material to underage children.(in america). It is ....If you sell a MA rated game to a minor without consent the family can sue you which is LEGAL recourse in a court of LAW. All of you are falling for the American government's renaming of things like calling laws guidelines so that americans can feel more free and better than everyone else. Also, if you don't pay if you get sued, then you got to JAIL. Sounds pretty illegal to me. That is why most companies self censor so that they won't be sued out of business. Pretty messed up how in America you can go to jail for not following a guideline...Another example is speed limits. Its written as a guideline but, if you don't abide by it then you get fined, and if you don't pay said fine you go to jail.
Lets not forget that mortal kombat was only a few vote short from being banned. And that you won't find the first Postal game for sale anywhere is america anymore.
A bunch of guys who think they should have been able to screw freshmen girls while they were serniors in high school... shocking. I hope you all have daughters.
Being able to sue somebody is a right for every american. Getting a lawyer to take the case, to win the case, and get enough to cover your expenses is the questionable part. You are confusing legality with settlement... not the same. These corporations might settle for small amounts even when the law is on their side because its less expensive, that has nothing to do with who is actually right according to the law. It's not like those lawsuits are popping up all over the place as they parents would be slaughtered in the court of opinion.
Because all girls are victims, right? /sarcasm
I was a 'outsider' in school and didn't go down this path. What a fool I was eh?
Anyway, this has to be one of the BEST threads on 'piracy' I've ever read. Because its, like, totally not about piracy!
The "right" to sue in America has been abused more than Michael Jackson's testicles. Also, the events in the article didn't take place in America.
OK ENOUGH; BACK ON TOPIC NOW.
You'd think that IF your primary source for news on the court system was the medi. Do really think they are going to advertise the cases where a tenant sues the landlord for unsafe living considtions. What about when you take telemarkters to small claims court, or debt collectors... you think the media is going to advertise that. Every day there are thousands of legal, simple and legitmate lawsuits being carried out across the country and the only ones the media wants to talk about are the ones that cause people's emotions to trigger.
Of course not. But you know what i said to the 21 year old looking at statutory rape charges because his 15 year old girlfriend got upset with him and decided to get back at him, you were idiot to be with her in the first place. That is exactly what happens when you take some one who is mature, or getting mature and pair them up with someone who is immature and not able to give consent. We're not talking about 17 and 18 which I think is very different, very close in age and yeah, the laws for those are over reaching but there is no way in hell i think it's okay for 21 one year old to booze up a 14 or 15 year old girl, have sex with her and think it's okay. Hell these loosers who wanted that kept a tally in my high school, the number of freshmen on their belts. Total scum of the earth and if they wound up in jail, it served them right.
I've seen some 14 year old girls that seem more mature than plenty of 21 year old males I've known, lol, but you are correct. There are some people who never seem to develop any understanding of anyone but one's self.
The conversation really should get back on topic, but, just to clear up a few misconceptions.
A: That case I quoted did come from America, right here in Florida.
B: The parents aren't getting money from any kind of law suite. The State will be the ones making the profit.
They are having the State "press charges" because technically, even though all the kids went to school together, had been boyfriend and girlfriend for apparently quite a while, and the girls consented, the boys were still technically 18 years old sleeping with minors. That's also not counting the "Romeo and Juliet Act" act which states that "The victim in the case must be between 14 and 17, a willing participant in the sexual activity and no more than four years younger than the offender." which both girls fit those criteria and the boys are only 18, and recently turned 18 at that.
The State will be the ones making money off those boys for the rest of their lives, not the girls parents. The only thing the girls parents get is the satisfaction of seeing "justice" done. There isn't any justice here. If the guys would have been 25 sleeping with a 14 year old, then sure, they probably deserve to be sex offenders. These two 18 year old boys don't especially since even making them sex offenders goes against the Romeo and Juliet Act. So far in Florida only one man has had his sex offender status removed. One man....compaired to the thousands of so so called sex offenders here that didn't do anything wrong that every other guy on the planet hasn't done. The laws make no distinction between boys like these two 18 year olds and the real sickos that are out there snatching kids from buss-stops and stuff.
I took the quote about the Romeo and Juliet Act from This website.
Something that has not been brought up yet in this thread.
Let's say Elemental becomes a classic in it's genre like MoM or AoW:SM and Stardock moves on, gets merged with someone or some other thing happens (as does often in the software bussiness). Let's also say several years have passed and many still play the game, but it, like many other games from years back are unobtainable except as expensive collector's copies on ebay. In that case no issues.
Try finding thes old classics that folks still play at a reasonable (non-subscription, non-collector price gouge) prices: Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic, Sid meier's Alpha Centauri, Panzer General, etc. Yes, I pirated these. I at one time paid retail and owned these, but lost my copies and could not reaquire them any other way but piracy. Steam and Impulse seem to be getting better at keeping some titles, but for many older games with a cult following, piracy is the only things that keep these gems alive. I consider the above titles near abandonware.
I will be purchasing and not pirating Elemental. I may get a No-CD crack because I cannot stand having to keep CDs out of the case. Plus, I have a feeling Stardock will be supporting this with many patches long after release if all goes well. Plus, I want the devs to get paid. But I am sorry. If there are no updates, your game is approaching a decade old, and I cannot buy it without great inconvienience, and I at one time bought it, I believe file sharing is fair game!
Agreed. After all, they've got your money, so I see no reason why you shouldn't download the game for free if it's impossible to purchase it reasonably. (ie. not for some ridiculous $500 collectors price off ebay)
They have your money. You have a working game. Same applies for compatibility. If they won't support a game's compatibility, then it seems only fair to download a cracked compatibility version from somewhere. Once again, they have your money, and you ultimately have the game that you paid for.
Of course, the problem is when people don't buy the games at all, ever, and download all of their stuff instead of only when it's necessary.
If the game is no longer being sold in any way, shape or form - discontinued, I believe it's called - I'd be hard pressed to present a clear and definitive case against downloading it. Some companies release their older titles for free - such as the earlier Elder Scrolls and Command and Conquer games - however some don't. With Digital Distribution, this is going to be less and less frequent as any game can be sold indefinately via the magic of the internet.
All made possibe by talented women.
Oh you meant the other magic of the internet? Yes digital delivery is giving access to things that were previously unaccessable. This gives people the chance to resample what has already been sampled before. The price you pay for such is more of a conveience factor than anything.
Personally I think of games like books with the visual and audio asects of films with a direct control aspect we call gameplay. Obviously some are just 'games' like chess but many are far more involved.
The idea of a good book being unread because it is no longer sold? I would protest if I was a 'gentleman' from 1860 but now I would just get Stephen Fry to do it for me. Thats why we keep archives and great librarys stuffed full of relics from past campaigns against the orks, and eldar.
The end result is that without the ability to really see what they are capable of, how would I know how much more respect they really deserve? ... Errr, wait, I was talking about the other magic of the internet again.
If the game is no longer being sold in any way, shape or form - discontinued, I believe it's called - I'd be hard pressed to present a clear and definitive case against downloading it.
I don't feel bad about pirating pokemon red because you can't buy it in stores anymore and I already own a copy. I think there should be some real concrete laws that limit copyright. You shouldn't be able to copyright something and renew it forever, it should run out after 20-50 years.
I'm pretty sure it's not this way anymore, but, back in the day it used to be perfectly legal for you to make a "backup copy" of any disk you owned. That way you kept the backup copy in your system to play with so your original purchased copy didn't suffer wear and tare from use (scratches). I'm sure with all the DRM and everything today though that's probably not legal anymore.
What is sad is that our society idolizes being a child so much that growing up and assuming responsibilities like a mature adult is frowned upon, thus people are encouraged to stay children forever... and they do.
We have far too many 40 year old children.
I am not saying that children shouldn't be allowed to be children, but "growing up" is not "sad".
It is still legal and is how torrent sites operate.. You sign a disclaimer saying you have a hard copy at home already. Same for Limewire. Its what I do with a cd as soon as I get it home.. Make 2 copies. One for the big disc changer in the living room and another one for the car and then the original gets put away until one of the copies gets ruined.
Like was mentioned, it is still legal but getting around DRM is not which makes the point mute. So you can have a backup copy, but you can't work around DRM which means you can't get your copy legally since DRM doesn't allow it. That's what scum sucking lobbyist get us with pos legislation. I am sure its crap like this that only fuels the pirates' ranks and probably one the reasons people, in general, don't treat so called pirates as we do spammers and phishers and the other scoundrels of the internet. If the laws were actually fair for the consumer, i think public acceptance of these acts would dwindle. But hey, we'll keep doing the same old dance, more DRM, more lobbyist, more unfair legislation because it is working SO well so far.
That's the big problem. The moment a game with DRM comes out, someone finds a way to crack it. This is spread to all those that want to beat the system. Ultimately, only those who have bought the game with no intention of anything illegal suffer, while the company doesn't actually triumph over piracy.
synnworld, interesting name. The cases you mention seem ok to me.
I have never pirated a game. Furthest I have gone along those lines is to install no cd cracks for a few games. For convenience. Though in one case I found that Securom would not let me load the game. The publisher no longer supported the game. Forum could not suggest how I might get the Securom reset. So I downloaded a crack for that one too. My game, I bought it.
I think genuine piracy is the equivalent of shop lifting.
Shop lifting takes money from the retailer. Shop lifting is an obvious moral wrong because you cause harm to someone else.
Piracy is *somewhat* more of a gray area because it is a pseudo-victim-less crime. If someone who would normally pay for a game pirates it, then the producer of the game loses that sale. The biggest argument you come into is that people who pirate games wouldn't pay for them if the piracy option weren't available, which may or may not be true.
1. because there is no demo?
2. they already bought it but the DRM is preventing them from playing?
3. because the game lasts 6 hours and they have a limited monthly budget for gaming (60$ per day for entertainment?)
but the argument you were countering is not used to refer to the above three cases... it refers to the simple case of people willing to play a game for "free" but not willing to pay for the same game. Given a choice between not playing it at all, or paying to play, they will chose not to pay at all because its good enough to pass some time, but not good enough to buy.
Mostly, I think piracy is a habit. It always starts (from what I have seen) in a legal customer who is trying to get his purchased game to work despite of draconian DRM or a scratched disk...
then they move on pirating instead of buying from companies they wish to boycott (usually due to DRM, environmental issues, worker treatment, etc). Or to get it instead of demos.
Later it exacerbates to "well, only rather bad games... ones not worth the money... i will still but the good games"
Then its just a habit and you pirate everything. A habit that can be overcome.
I've always thought pirates are made up from 3 kinds of people.
Legiters
Habiteers
Freeloaders
Legiters have a valid concern (DRM stops them playing, they already own the game but the disk broke, see if it works on the computer). They will buy if they can but they hate to waste money and turn to piracy to fix things because the publisher didn't. Lan partys of 10+ people where you need a disk each is also a 'valid' concern in my opinion but publishers are trying to close this down hard.
Habiteers pirate because they always have. I had friends that were like this long ago, I even got some pirated games from them - I didn't even think about it as 'piracy'. I couldn't afford the games anyway, I wouldn't have bought them myself. Ironically I bought all the sequels to those games which actually means piracy incrased sales from me...
Freeloaders will pay the absolute least money for anything they don't deem as important. Games are usually within this catagory. If the pirated copies went away they would just play the game at a friends house and still not buy it.
Stopping 100% of piracy wouldn't incrase sales by more than 20% in my opinion based on who I think pirates but thats just some number I picked out of the air to illustrate that I don't think fighting pirates with DRM (even if it actualy worked, lol) is an efective idea. They need to continue to make things that only paying customers get that is USEFUL and rewards them for buying.
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