It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
one possible soultion is to change the name of the ui texture itself. I know you would rather prefer to leave the name stock. But it should work . There would be no stock tga file to pull.
thanks jtaylorpcs
The problem with that Jay is it wont be "vanilla" sins if we change the file names. The final goal is to be able to merge the project into the game itself, and not have to run it as a mod.
Actually stress it could be merged with the mod and the files removed via a handly little installer we have used in the past. As it stands now this is the only way to achieve the final goal. , Unless the devs get up off there ARSE and help out with the hard codes a little more.
jtaylorpcs
And what of the MP peeps that will de-sync because if they use the project they will have different files than the people that do not use the project? (Holy Shit! Major Stress is actually thinking about the MP peeps. Call Ripley's). Different file names is out of the question. There must be another way.
No dev bashing! They are pretty much done with Sins, and moving on to Elemental. So it is up to US now.
ok gotcha
but we can hope they will give us a little more access
@ Stress - So you use XSI and not 3D Studio Max?
If you have access to Max, I have some quick and easy ways to simplify Polys.
I graduated in spatial animation and 3d Graphics... So i have a little bit of advanced knowledge on the iner workings on Max, Maya, Photoshop and Illustrator.
The only school i went to for modeling was the "School of hard knocks" I started with 3dsmax 2.5 back in 1999. I use 2010 now, and i STILL dont know everything yet. My XSI knowledge is limited to just what is needed to import a ship into Sins. I know a little bit of lightwave. I tossed maya the 1st time i used it. It took me 3 weeks just to figure out how to zoom the camera in maya. I dont have months or years worth of time to learn new modeling programs. I used 3dsmax for over 10 years, and will model in no other program. I am also pretty handy in photoshop.
I do things the "hard way" one poly at a time, or one section at a time. Simply because i have more control over the end result. It is long, and tedious, but the job gets done right (most of the time). I used polycruncher, and max's own optimizer, and didnt like how they chopped the models up. More like mutilated them. I only use in program optimizers for very low poly/low detail LOD meshes.
Would you like to help optimize some models SivCorp? I still dont have exact counts on all of the sins meshes yet, but the structures, and NPC craft seem to be the ones that need some reduction the most. I would like to see the trade ships at 1000 tri's if possible.. 1500 max. Orbital structures no higher than 3k. Less if at all possible. Starbases at 5k or under. I know it can be done. Especially with the advent starbase. I got a few tricks in mind for that one. I just dont have the time right now to do any kind of modeling with the hours of my RL job. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Nice Stress.
I always apprectiate the ones that learn it on there own... Its like a higher level of accomplishment.
I also am a die-hard Max fan. I only know Maya from a game company i was apart of for a little while. Its an annoying program in my opinion.
I can do the model reductions. My time is also somewhat limited, but I would like to be apart of this to make the game survive for larger battles.
I'll work on some models and get them to ya. We can discuss details if you want through PM's or here, its up to you.
(I'm gonna start with Var. )
Vasari trade ship is a good place to start. It is 3100 tri's The Advent trade ship is higher. I dont recall how much higher without looking at the mesh which i am too tired to do right now, but its a lot. I think tech is in the same ball park as well.
Trade ships shouldnt be higher than 1500. Less if at all possible.
Working on it now, I've already got it down to ~2600 faces and have only done 3 segments (1/3 of the total ship)
It should be able to go down to 1500. I'll let ya know when I got it done
Update: Now down to 2200 faces - the front and back main sections need done, and then its ready to go. (If the count is still too high, I would suggest loosing the beams between the ship pods.)
Make the beams 6 or 3 sided. i think they are 12 sided now.
Thx for this, my mod has raised the qunatity of ships by quite a lot and this could be quite usefull for it. One problem I have is that the current host for downloading is quite... troublesome. Could you give us another download link such as filefront or mediafire?
I wish i could without the file being corrupt as hell. As they were on my last several attempts to use them. Perhaps someone who has a non corrupt version can upload it and post a link.. I'll update main topic with mirror.
i yhink i have a none corrupt version ill see what i can do to help
0.03 ADrive Mirror
As soon as you uploaded I made an ADrive mirror. post 137
1 thing I did learn is ADrive free links good 30 days.
you should do a megaupload mirror its a fast host.
i could upload it i downloaded it in the first day of realese but i only have an rapidshare acc should i upload ?
I am amazed at how much detail went into a ship that would be spawned thousands of times....
The back is giving me some trouble right now - I'm taking it face by face and vertex by vertex. The negative space I'm just gonna fill in; it will need re-textured for sure.
I'll continue the updates and post the finished one soon.
That is correct without a paying subscription you have to manually update the links every thirty days. But so far A drive is more reliable than most free file sharing services.
I have tried a few and to me this is the best 1. I will keep the link updated until the next version comes out and I will mirror that also.
Good to know, myfist0. Looks like a good hosting site to use for this, thanks!
On a progressive note: It is taking me a bit longer than I would like to optimize this trade ship... due to the way it was constructed. I will get it soon, just not as soon as I had wanted, maybe tommorrow I'll have time to finish it.
(I am saving quite a few polys on it )
No rush at all. When you get free time.
Good news! I'm almost done with the vasari trade ship, and its currently at 1345 Faces, with almost now detail loss that can't be made up in good texturing. I can probably shave off another 300 faces or so too!
I'll probably have it done tomorrow, then I'll start with the other two races trade ships.
(I also found a method to quickly reduce polys via welding tolerances. I should be able to crank through the models now.)
This mod will need stickied for sure once it is done... Epic Battles will have no lag!!!
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