It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
If 1% of the gaming community were like Major Stress, all games would be free source. Watch out Iron Clutses.
Changing these would probably take more time than it's worth.
Since the difference between the two texts are only around 30 Bytes
you would have to change tens(or hundreds) of thousands to actually gain a noticable effect.
I'd be happy to take a stab at texturing. I work with photoshop and rebuild images and objects in hi def photos for print layout . I have the dds texture plug-in just need to know the specs and formats to save. I also notice there are multiple images per planet type.
I've seen your old primer but I am a little vague on some points. If it's helpful, put a step by step for dummies here and I'll start some work using your optimized files. I've got the time to do production work just not to study and master by trial and error the technical side.
I have the planet files pulled out and am using Photoshop with the Nvidia plug-in.
Stress, don't forget to convert them all to 16bit graphics sheets while you're at it. Unless that trick doesn't work for skyboxes?
woot guys that sounds awesome
im very glad somoene is doing this, in the soa2 mod theres the same problem because the got models with to much polygons on it so it seems they make the same but only for there mod maybe you and them can cooperate to help each other ore to share what you both have done
Melik, Major Stress runs the SoA2 mod, at least in theory. He is definitely trying to get the high-poly models in SoA2 reduced to a more reasonable size, especially the Borg Cubes which should need no more than 12 tris each (2 tris per side times 6 sides) since most of the detail on those can be bump/normal mapped.
lol oh if I were you stress I'd report all of those little finds to Ironclad so they can fix them... or... better yet you can give them the fixes? meh either way... your doing great work
I sure hope that you are cooperating with yourself Major Stress
I did found the SoA 2 mod, and yes i am still in charge of it, but this take priority IMO. My crew can handle the 0.4 series right now. We are well aware of the mesh issues in SoA 2.
I was told that if a program endlessly searches for something that isnt there it will cause a memory leak. I think i found sins memory leak problem then, and it is in the mesh, and particle files. Typos, Miss-naming of null points, and referencing textures that dont exist. The real kicker is that no one saw this until now. I was too busy modding SoA 2 that i didnt bother looking in original sins itself. Not that i would expect a problem like this to exist.
Yea most wouldnt bother to fix these problems, but i went and did it anyway. And removed all of the redundant text entrys.
0.03 will have Re-optimized particles. Mesh, and particle typo corrections. Strike craft, Trade ship, and starbase texture reductions. Trade ships went from 1024 to 512. Strike craft from 512 to 256, and starbases from 4096 to 2048. I could have went lower with the strike craft, and trade ships, but lets try this first and see how it works. 456 i already tried to convert them to 16 bit, it was a failure. For the record the Psi Starbase texture was so big it crashed my computer when i tried to load it in photoshop.
Marza now has planet bombing point coming from its radiation bomb port. No more dev exe error that marza is missing bombing point. Vasari scout capital now has bombing point that is named correctly. Kol has one missnamed hardpoint removed, because it wasnt needed. it was an auto canon placed on the gauss railgun barrel. Sovas nav lights now work. Akkan now has all engine points, and nav lights working. Several models were ether missing, or had their "above, center, aura, and ability". nulls missnamed. This is now corrected. Pirate siege frig now has both of its bomb points correctly named. Psi Siege capital now has all engine points working. Meshes that had issues that are now fixed are gonna be in the release. You can compare them to the original sins meshes to see the errors.
0.03 is done and tested on Max Settings except for bloom enabled. These are my results. Your milage may vary.
Original sins ram usage down to 1.2 gigs and stays there for medium large map 4 AI's
Entrenchment now HOLDS at 1.4 gigs on random medium large map. This is with upgraded defenses, minefields, tons of strike craft, and starbases all over the map.
Diplomacy is a rinse and repeat of Entrenchment. Holds at between 1.4 to 1.5 gigs. As i said your results may vary, but this is a huge improvement. My old sempron machine plays smooth until very late game when there are tons of units on the map, but i think that is more a cpu bottleneck than a ram issue.
Not ONE dev exe error. Except for that annoying "C:\projects\perforce\SinsDiplomacy\main\CodeSource\GS\Entity\Interfaces\IAbility.ccp(1663): assert! (false)" Which happens when you run dev exe with no mods anyway. so that is a Sins problem.
This is the last version i will release that is not in binary format. All of the particles are done. There is no more need to keep things in text. All that is left to do now is to optimize the meshes themselves, and to fix the UI.
Upload should be done in about 3 hours from now
I still have not got to the planet texture fix's yet.
I had noticed when running on debug in vanilla sins that there was a string of "mesh not found" type errors. I wondered why they never caught them. Good job. looking forward to the update. Yay!
0.03 is up. All that is left to do now are the meshes, and the UI itself. THAT is going to be the challenge.
Sins Imperium make a list of the "meshes not found" errors you see, and i will see what i can do about it. I havent noticed any errors like that on my end.
0.03 ADrive Mirror
Hm ... Load this one first - no Problem but when i load Distant Stars i get an Error with a Sins Bumpfile.
Anything what i can do?
http://rapidshare.com/files/369580188/Sins-Diplomacy_v1.011-2010-03-29-17-10-49-3252-2152.dmp.html
Dumps are useless to modders. We have no way to translate them. Only the sins developers can translate them. We cant read them. I am not a programmer. I am not a code monkey. I am a modeler, and texture artist. Anything that has to do with programming is all jibberish to me.
TBH i never tested activating other mods over this one. I am a one mod type person, and most games dont let you run more than one mod at once like sins does. So i never felt a need to test it. It is also disturbing since i have not changed a single vanilla file. It shouldnt dump since the optimization mod is exactly that. No vanilla files were changed at all. So there shouldnt be any conflicts. There has to be something in distant stars that is conflicting, and making it dump. That is something the distant stars team would need to look at. I never intended to support the running multiple mods with this. I did intend for other mod teams to incorporate what i have done into their mods.
Next update will include the optimized sounds posted a few pages back. I dont notice any difference between the optimized, and non optimized sounds at all.
Err, i can use DS as first Mod but then i have some glitches (see Screenshot above).
And it seems that u never have been played The Elder Scrolls ...
Simple answer... When i know. You will know
I noticed it in the last Sins version (vanilla) prior to the desync patch while testing maps. That was the unmodified files from an online Impulse installation. The game still started and ran. I'll see if I can duplicate it again and post results..
I checked out DS and i really dont know why it is crashing when it is enabled over TOP. There is obviously a conflict somewhere. No offense to the DS team but their mod is just the opposite of TOP. The volumetric explosions add on could be an issue since it overrides the explosion particles. Along with the graphic mod which overrides the rest of the particles. The planets override what i have done with TOP's planets and skybox's. There is no point in running TOP with these mods, because graphics enhancement mods override everything about this mod, and do just the opposite. They INCREASE your ram usage.
The DS team said they are looking into incorporating what i have done or at least the method of what i have done into DS.
The whole point of TOP is to enhance your Vanilla Sins experience without worrying about hitting the 2 gig brick wall. There are no graphic enhancements (other than what was intended to reduce ram usage). No changes to the out of the box gameplay. No stat tweaks, Buffs or Nerfs. It exist to only to enhance your Vanilla game (and fixes some ironclad bugs while its at it).
I still find it disturbing that the other mods would crash this one since i didnt change any files that would cause it to crash like that. At least not the naming convention. Then again like i said i wasnt expecting anyone to run other mods OVER this one.
I do not reccomend running any graphic enhancement mods over TOP for the reasons above. They override everything about this mod, and have the opposite effect on your ram usage.
You probobly did read where I updated those links with the trinity sounds (was entrenchment) and just to let everyone know that entrenchment overwriten some sounds from original and diplomacy only added a few. All sounds are still the same format. For some reason now diplomacy uses TEC 3 for the Main Menu (was opening theme).
If you like major, I can do each version for its own folder like how your mod is set up. Just post weather you prefer the 96kbs or the 112kbs.
Yes can you do that. You also found your way on the mods credits as a contributer. That way if people want to use them now they can. TIA
Could you give me the exact path to that texture? If it's simply a problem with your machine (for whatever reason) I'd be happy to try and help with resizing/saving as 16bit.
The problem is that sins doesnt like anything but dxt5 RGBA. Quite frankly i want ALL of the textures 16 bit if it could be done. The issue is with the alpha channels. Anything but dxt5 makes the alpha channels in sins useless, Particles lose transparancy. Ships turn into "ghost ships".
You are welcome to try. I used the nvidia dds photoshop plugins. If you know of another method by all means share the info.
Has anyone figured out how to "force" the UI to use only dds format? My attempts at it resulted in failure, and the mod still pulls the tga's from the vanilla game.
To those of you having issues with Distant Stars... Stress is absolute right about that mod going for the exact opposite of what he's trying to accomplish with this project. I've personally had issues with Distant Stars dumping due to the 2 gig RAM issue on larger maps. With that said, I took a page out of his book and went through the texture folder downsizing all planet textures to 1024 x 1024 and I changed all .tga files to 16 bit. I didn't take my work to anywhere near the level Stress is doing here, but I'm able to play Distant Stars without the game dumping on the largest map available now. I don't think I could finish a game since little things keep the memory usage on the rise, but Stress's work here is definitely a step in the right direction.
Long story made short, just copy all of the textures into a different mod folder, downsize them however you wish, then apply it as a mini-mod on top of the distributed DS package.
yeah, we plan on adapting TOP to DS, most likely along the lines of the models because we actually optimized the others that cause issues that deal with the video cards (the fancy effects) were as we have issues with the CPU/RAM being overloaded. An example is my computer, I have a killer video card so I never have to drop the settings down like some do but I have a so so CPU with so so RAM and have issues when too many ships are built. An dropping the effects does nothing for it, ever. So yes we will soon use Major Stress's Mod (thanks for letting us) to help with the RAM/CPU usage.
I see. That's a shame. Are you able to implement 16 bit on some things, or does it hate it for everything? If I remember correctly M456 was saving the Alpha as 16bit when he exported it, although I'd have to check with him on the specifics. I don't currently have Photoshop installed, so I can't try anything.
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