It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
Too bad this game can't be re-written for 64bit support. :/
This is a great game. I'm wondering why they're still updating it, considering that they're updating a 4-6 (?) year old game. Technology has skyrocketed since then.
They are updating it because it is a great game.
This is an old subject. Talked about over, and over about since TSOP was first thought of. If they did 64 bit then the dev's would have to do it all over again from scratch. Which would not be cost effective for them. They might as well make Sins 2 if that is the case. I am sure IC considered the idea, but felt it better just to leave Sins 32 bit. I can see all the problems that "could" happen if they re-wrote the game. Sins had the misfortune to be designed, and released during the major transition period between 32, and 64 bit tech. However IC did accomplish the goal of Sins being able to run on a wide range of machines.
Homeworld stayed very popular with little to no updates for a good 6-8 years. Even after HW2 was released Homeworld remained popular until its age really started to show. HW1's tech was dated within the first year of its release. HW2 was just a major upgrade of the HW1 engine. Not a new engine IIRC. Rebellions transition is similar. Though it still remains Sins.
Technology is always going to skyrocket way past what PC's that games are intended are capable of within months of release. That is just the nature of PC gaming. Its called "force upgrading".
I love this game and just recently got back into playing it a bit. I'm really confused about the current status of this mod. Can someone tell me how to download the correct version of tsop for entrenchment 1.053? Are there multiple files or just one?
Does this mod's improvements only apply to lan play, or is it also viable for ironclad online games? (I know its a dumb question but I don't care)
I also notice you are having server problems. Might I suggest this might be a time when torrent links are in order? If someone is torrent savvy they can just host the files for a few months until it gets around the community, then it should be a lot easier to find the mod files for people in the future.
thanks
the main differences between the 1.05x versions is in the string file, so the 1.051 tsop should work fine in 1.053.
harpo
thx, and fast reply too! Here, have some cookies
Thanks harpo.
A crazy busy real life doesnt help us when it comes to keeping up on things here too.
We have plans on updating TSOP. However that is all they are for now. Just plans. We know that Rebellion will most certainly need a new version of TSOP despite all of the optimizations it already has. The older versions of TSOP while they still work are getting dated, and a few patches have happened since we last updated. We discontinued TSOP for Diplomacy, because ironclad has included the core elements of TSOP in the most recent patches. However looking back i think we can conjur up a new version for Diplomacy to include the texture optimizations that IC didnt include.
Just know we got plans
Anyone know where I can find a download link for the auto dock/undock for hanger bays?
never got it to work
Ah I see, I remember when I first tried to install it, it wasn't working, thought if I could have a play around with it again. Its a shame as it really would be a good idea.
Did anyone pursue the avenue of when Cap Ships are jumping out system, fighters automatically return to the hangers on those ships, could we create something which states automatically return to hangers unless there is an enemy present?
I know there was some discussion about this a year ago but I had thought it had been solved? MajorStress may have a good idea of where to start looking if he does not have the answer outright; as I believe this was first discussed in response to his TSOP mod thread.
Thing is it was an old add on that was on Myfist0s now dead TSOP weebly. I don't have it, and i haven't a clue how they got it to work, or if it ever worked right at all. I had nothing to do with the strike craft add on. So i couldn't begin to tell you what made it tick. I also suffer from CRS (Cant Remember Shit). Who worked on that project anyway?. I am having a hard enough time re-learning what i did for the Original TSOP. It's been that long since i messed around with it lol.
Now that we got 1.03 reference files i can now start doing with rebellion what we did with trinity, and BUG hunt. Anyone care to join me?
stress, just had steam 'update' rebellion to 1.02. do not know WHY, but suggest enjoying the family a bit longer.
OK that is strange. better check my version b4 i dive into this.
BTW i plan on starting a new TSOP: Rebellion topic as soon as i get started on this. I would like all who worked with me on the previous versions of TSOP to chime in. Plus any new guys who wish to help out.
You got it.
Awesome sir.
Mod is called
SquadronAutomation
Creator:
Mystic Angel
https://forums.stardock.com/392082
if no download available it is also included in the SOTYR mod. Just look at the planet entities and the ability/buff
Yeah!
G'Kar is wise.
OK guys. This topic is now DEAD. We opened a new topic here for TSOP: Rebellion. Original TSOP will be updated as well. Lets move all discussions there.
Hi Major,
Been using your mod fomodel 2 days now.
Thanks for your work btw....
I just wanna ask you, is it a common problem that my achievements is always resetting every time I play the game with this model?
Wonder if I did something silly.
Thanks.
bribot...not so wise.
Check the reply above yours sir.
Shoot,
Dunno why I posted here.
Thought i was already in the right topic.
Pardon me
So....where exactly do I get The Sins Optimization Project? I am using Sins version 1.182, and 1.193; Diplomacy versions 1.00 and 1.34; Entrenchment version 1.042 and version 1.053. These are the folders in my modding options. Any direct links would be appreciated, all responses are useful.
~Thank You~
The link for the original Sins version, and the low resolution add on still work. Ill work on getting links back up on the TSOP: Rebellion topic, but you want to delete your obsolete mod folders.
The only mod folders that should be there if your game is current, and up to date are
Original Sins: Mods-v1.193
Entrenchment: Mods-Entrenchment v1.053
Diplomacy; Mods-Diplomacy v1.34
You do not need TSOP for Diplomacy any more. There is no current version of TSOP for Diplomacy, because Ironclad incorporated most of it into the latest Diplomacy patch.
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