It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
Sorry for double post, but no other way to bump the topic.
All three builds are finished, and Diplomacy build is going through "stress test" as i type. Vanilla Diplomacy 1.012 runs at about 1.3 gigs, but with TSOP 0.08 it is currently running at 1.1 gigs with FULL resolution textures. Max settings. Systems of War with 3 Vicious AI's. 1 hour into the game. No dev errors (yet). I am gonna give it another hour then i will upload all 3 builds. I am going to do File Front for now, but hopefully Myfisto and crew can find a better host and combine for the Trinity build.
0.08 changes.
All textures reverted back to Vanilla Sins resolutions. So there should be zero detail loss other than what little happens during conversion to DDS.
Pipeline Effect, and Mesh fixes from Diplomacy 1.012 incorporated into all versions of TSOP.
This will be the LAST version of TSOP released as a Mod. All future versions will be released as a Patch. Replacing core game files. This will ensure mod compatibility, and reduce the size of the download, because only the files that are fixed will be needed.
Check back later to see if i uploaded. It "should" be by this evening pacific time.
NOTE: If you already have TSOP 0.07 then SAVE IT. Especially for those with low end systems. You can just swap out the texture folders between 0.07, and 0.08 if you want the lower res textures.
An optional download will be made available with the lower res textures from the prior versions of TSOP.
EDIT: Links are up for all except Trinity. Trinity will be uploaded at a later time. Until then use the separate links.
Again, This is the FINAL version of TSOP that will be in Mod format. In about a week i will create a new topic for TSCBFP (The Sins Community Bug Fix Patch). Which will basically be TSOP (plus any new bug fix's we perform) in patch format.
Good Stuff!
Just to let you know, it Diplomacy 1.2 not 1.012
Whoopsy.
Working on core file replacement versions now. May take a while cause i am not on my main system, and will be bouncing back n forth between puters and locations. Will keep you guys informed.
Where I can find the latest download for this mod? You said you uploaded it on filefront but I didn't see it. Also just making sure, this latest is for 1.2 version of Diplomacy right?
Never mind I feel stupid. Its on this page sorry.
Just to confirm it is for Diplo 1.2? or 1.012?
also, I don't know if you are familiar with this work-around, we've used it on Elemental a bit and it seems to work, but...
would using a program like CFF Explorer, going to the games exe and changing the file header to accept ">2gb address space" work?
thank you
Dip 1.2 The other was a typo.
We all here are very familiar with the use of LAA.
Depends on your system, the gains are not very much in practice, and it's usage is impractical considering the Sins 1.2 update has reduced memory usage to a point where modders are currently not in danger of crossing the limit on a regular basis anymore.
Plus it prevents you from playing with others over ICO, and as the EULA states under the YOU MAY NOT: section...4. Decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or modify the SOFTWARE or any portion of it, or make any attempt to bypass, unlock, or disable any protective or initialization system on the SOFTWARE.
Not that anybody really cares about that though.
Lol, thank you for both answers.
one more, will TSOP stack with other mods, like Distant Stars or SOGE? or is this vanilla only?
thanks
Vanilla only
Distant Stars has incorporated a lot of these features though so no need of it.
I have been working on the nest update that will replace your core game files. So far it works like a charm with just one exception. The Vasari missiles have disappeared. The trail effects are still there but the missile mesh doesnt show in game. That is the ONLY snag. It is preventing me from moving on to Entrenchment. It is funny it works in TSOP, but not in the core game.
So, is the Diplomacy 'mod enable' version of TSOP good to go? 0.8?
Since trail effect is added via particle and hardpoint to the .mesh, it mean that the .mesh is loaded correctly... maybe check the path for the texture files... name is certainly good since it work outside the core game...
The link for the Entrenchment version appears to be broken. I get "can't find file" error on GameFront.
Okay.
I am playing Sacrifice of Angels. A TC-Mod that brings the star trek universe to Sins.
I am also playing on a map that is 38 stars and 257 planets large. This map is supposed to be the entire (as close to canon) Star Trek universe with the six major races involved.
Basically this is a few day game environment. But sadly, I can only get to about 4 or 5 hours into the game where it becomes unplayable. Funny enough, I have never mini-dumped.
I realize that it is only a 32bit game. I realize that it won't be possible to get it in a 64bit standard.
But, After I started playing a game of this magnitude, I feel bored with every other smaller game I start.
I have a very high end PC.
Is there any possible way to get the game to use multiple cores? Whenever I do play any game, it only uses one core. Sometimes a second core only when first loading.
I know with many other games that only use one core that there are either Mods or Outside Utilities used to allow multi-threading.
Would this be possible?
Sorry bud it's not really possible. There are other threads that discuss different topics like this however. Use the search function and quite a few actually come up. Also, for longer games turn your graphics down (I know, not that great of a solution from an eye-candy standpoint) and you will get a lot more travel out of your games.
Sins was built, and optimized for single core 32 bit systems. Unfortunately at the time of Sins release 64 bit, and dual/multi core systems were not the standard they are now. Vista was just released when Sins was in beta at the end of 2007. I believe quad core became the standard at that point as well. 64 bit did not really become the standard until Windows 7.
IC has improved the game with the Diplomacy 1.2 patch. Hopefully Rebellion will see some more optimizations. I am still working on incorporating what we learned with TSOP into the core game, but i am still running into problems.
Boshimi is right even with TSOP incorporated you may get a little extra mileage from a huge game like what you described, but not very much more. I think it is a cpu issue (as in sins uses only one core) and there is not much we can do about that.
TEC starbases can't be upgraded for some reason. Although the AI I play against is able to fully deploy theres with 5 digit health pools. Mine don't even get the researched stuff after I've bought it. there are no options when the razor makes it. It just sits there like a gauss.
Ah crap.. it may be the wrong UI texture again. You can upgrade but the icons dont show up. Ill look into this.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/408207 <----I did something with the diplomacy.user that seems to make the game run faster on startup and load-game times. Thought linking the topic here might help out.
EDIT: added some content to my diplomacy.user post, found some stuff with particle limitation settings in there. I know what it is, but not the knowledge to tinker with it and not worry about frying something so I leave it to you, it's the orange section
k so FIRST Shameless bump, this mod deserves front page at all times
Second, the link in the above post has been updated and the defining of the diplomacy.user file has been completed(until someone asks a question) and I found a few performance boosting thingies on there for game start-up you might wanna reference =3 anyway......
"The End" ~Gorge W. Bush
I havent had any free time to look over anything the last few weeks. Too busy at work. Its the season for bathtub refinishing, and everyone, and their mother wants it done. Just means more hours, and later days for me... wonderful. Perhaps Myfisto, or one of the other guys can check out the issues? While i go make the world safe to take a bath again.
God Speed Major >=O *salutes* anyway it isn't anything big lol just removes the galaxy that spawns int he background at the start and gets rid of the animated logos at the start. Oh, and you can change the stacking from 10 for things like strikecraft/mines/anything, I set mine to 50, nice round number at "necessity" not too high and just low enough to where the empire tree isn't a mad house even when collapsed
can u guys upload the mod to other hosts (like megaupload or mediafire) 'cause i can't download from gamefront, they block ip from my country.
Thanks.
Hmmm. The weebly site has some slightly older downloads of TSOP you should be able to acquire.
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