It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
You can be the 1st to try and post back to let us know.
Way to much on my plate to be a beta tester.
Probably will then. I'll let you guys know whether it crashes or not.
Don't think its compatible with current beta or the beta in general. I'm still going to play with the mod though, even if the pirates have come to be a pain in the ass again. I can guess your going to do a updated one once they have finished all these beta patches and have a final patch.
It works for me--here's a list of mods I have succesfully run in current beta:
The Sins Optimization Project
Distant Stars
Celestial Bodies
Multiple Stars Graphics Mod
All are Diplomacy and latest versions of their respective mods--no issues with any except last beta, Celestial Bodies took two install tries.
I know TSOP overwrites Multiple Stars and Multiple Stars minidumps Diplomacy in TSOP when stacked in the beta. I have not stacked any other mods.
I am using the straight TSOP-D (Diplomacy) mod and not the additional optional features TSOP offers susch as additional modified textures, changes to strikecraft, etc.
In each I have run solo, 10 player slot games for at least four hours.
I have also used the Large Address Aware executable on both mods with no issues (only works in 64-bit systems)
Imperium, have you sucessfully ran the MSGM v.03 or not with TSOP? I'm very confused.
I have can run MSGM alone--but I cannot run it with TSOP. If I instal MSGM on top of TSOP, I get a minidump. If I install TSOP on top of MSGM it overwrites it and I lose the effect.
I flat out don't play without MSGM. I do a lot of large solo maps and can't live without it.
The version I ran is the TSOP 0.3 one--I didn't try the other. PM if you need more info.
Alright, Thanks Imperium. We're still on the same page then. I'm dealing with a large work load at work and health issues. It's on the top of my TO-DO list.
No worries--love your mod. When ya gots the time (make it stack with TSOP and its golden).
Not much has changed with sins itself outside of the exe, and pipeline effects i made a ballpark list of what was changed based on the file dates. I have not had any free time to research the files themselves to see what exactly was changed yet. I will do so once i get the free time.
The fact that TSOP works in the beta at game startup is a good sign, but you guys must know that TSOP was never meant to be stacked with other mods due to the nature of the graphic enhancement mods themselves. However TSOP is an open community project, and other mods are more than welcome to use, and incorporate elements of TSOP into their projects on the developer level. DS was working to incorporate TSOP into their project. I do not know how many other projects were doing so as well.
Let us see how well the new patch (and expansion) works before we proceed further.
Yep--but ya don't larn stuff ifn' ya ain't tryin' it.
Make the stellar clouds vanish as a TSOP option and I am happy too.
I'm curious to see what this new expansion will bring to the table. I agree that we shall wait and see what the details are on it.... I'll make sure to get in on the beta in order to try and get an early heads up on possible mesh optimizations.
Till then, cherio!
Having some more time and feeling a bit better (so far) I will be looking into the clouds this weekend and how they interact with the TSOP mod.
Check out the Multiple Stars Graphics Mod thread and I'll first post any new information on the problem there. I'm hoping to have an answer soon but we'll have to see.
Um how did you install it exactly? Like when I tried installed it and enabled it in game, it got rid of all of what the beta patches fixed in game.
As of Beta 4 of the 1.2 patch some elements of TSOP did indeed make it into the beta patch in the form of TSOP's mesh, and particle fix's. Not all of them because there is still one more beta patch to go before release, and not all of TSOP's fix's made it into the beta yet. No textures were touched yet.
If the final patch fixes everything else, but does not include the texture/mesh optimizations we will make a new build of TSOP for the low to mid range users.
Sorry to attempt to correct you, stress, but i believe they said that Beta 4 is the FINAL beta patch before the release of the full patch.
Hopefully not, it's bugged and needs fixed. Autocast is not working right on some abilities.
It is the last Beta before the official patch.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/406241
Thats all fine and dandy if they want to put out a broken patch. I'm assuming they didn't realize they broke some of the auto-casting when they stated this. Hopefully they test it good internally if they won't do another Beta.
Thanks for the correction. Hopefully the final patch WON'T be broken. Regardless we will see what happens. If it is broken i am sure we will find the problems, and fix it like we did before.
New patch out and incoporates TSOp (and other fixes). Nice job!
Good to see our work going to good use
OK for the guys running the Diplomacy 1.019 beta's DO NOT RUN TSOP in the beta! TSOP will cancel out all of the beta stat changes. This is because we have all of the 1.011 entity files in the mods gameinfo folder to force load all optimized and corrected files from the TSOP folders instead of the core game folders. This will override the betas core files, and revert you back to 1.011.
Give the beta itself a chance.. Find all of the bugs in the betas that you can. If IC cant fix all of the issues we found in the final release.. WE WILL FIX THEM in a community bug fix patch.
Once again DO NOT RUN TSOP WITH THE BETA. When the final release is done we will make a new build of TSOP incorporating IC's stat changes.
EDIT:
I am making plans for the future of TSOP. IC is incorporating some, but not all of what we have done with TSOP. So far they are incorporating the data error fix's, and typo's that we found over time. This is a good thing because those errors really needed to be fixed.
They are not incorporating the texture changes, nor have they standardized the textures to DDS format. However i discovered something when studying both the TGA, and DDS formatted textures. When loaded both formats use the SAME amount of memory to render. DDS is smaller in its compressed form. What this means is a 512 res texture will use the same amount memory when loaded in game in ether TGA or DDS format.
For example: The Buttons_Interface.tga file size is 1025kb, and uses 1 meg of ram (1024kb) to render. In DDS format the file size is 257kb, but STILL uses 1024kb to render! This is telling me that converting to DDS did nothing to save in game memory. However there was indeed an in game memory savings when i converted all of the TGA textures to DDS. Why is that? Could it be how Sins loads a TGA compared to a DDS?
IMO the true advantage to a DDS texture is its Mip Mapping ability. All of the Ships, Planets, Map objects, and Structures use Mip Mapped DDS textures. Obviously the UI will not benefit from this because you cant zoom the UI. Also when you chose detail settings in the game options it only effects the textures in DDS format. The TGA formatted textures have no Mip Maps, and do not change to lower resolutions. Most of the Particle textures are in TGA format. When TSOP converted the particles to DDS they too benefited from the mip mapping. Greatly increasing the game performance, because the particles also scaled down with the rest of the objects on the map.
The true test is to convert to DSS but NOT rescale the textures, and recording the results. Beta 1.2 has already eliminated the 2 gig issue. The only non balance related issue left is the late game lag.
Also Entrenchment, and Original Sins were not touched with the Diplomacy updates. So all of the errors those 2 versions have are still there. We will still be working on those two versions as well at least until Rebellion. Which Rebellion is supposed to be a stand alone game that has all 3 other versions of Sins.
Doubt it, but hang on to those meshes anyway. IC seems more interested in the data fixes. I found a way to make "cleaner" DDS textures (compared to my original conversions). The original TSOP conversions introduced some artifacts into the textures. Especially on the UI textures. Now that i know that the textures use the same amount of memory to render no matter what format they are it may not be necessary to change the UI textures.
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