It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
I don't beta test and am waiting for the final. I never heard any models were changed yet. We will need to look at the dates modified of the mesh files.
I'm pretty sure the dev's blog said planet textures had been corrected and I am not seeing the skewed ones I formerly did. Maybe I am wrong.
harpo
Thanks harpo
So basically, your mod and the post-beta in theory might stack quite nicely?
Quite impressive the improvements here guys. I personally think your work might actually have had a little to do with the revisit to the memory issue.
Or the thousand posts complaining of the lag. Also when the pole went up about a new expansion, someone made a post about it and I would say that 50% said forget it, to laggy already. I don't think it would have been addressed at all except they want to try to add another expansion. I will wait quite a while and read the reviews of the lag before I invest again as this was ignored for a year as was the hole forum.
I know from e-mail conversations with Blair Frasier that the development team was focused on another project which was consuming a large portion of their time. Blair had worked on portions of the patch on his spare time on the weekends. Only recently does it seem that their work load on the other project has lessened enough to come back to Sins.
Since they are after all in the business to make some money, I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was either a shoring up of the community support for a future sequel or at the very least making room for a third patch. Either way I am so far very grateful that Sins is at least being paid attention too.
There really is no other reason for this patch unless it was to make room for a third micro-expansion... or a new full expansion either.
The game is still very fun to play and mod with so I'm happy it's being paid attention to as well.
I'd pay for an expansion. I've dropped $60USD on games that were old a week after you paid them. Sins has been a great bargain. I would love for Sins to be an MMO in a persistent universe...I would never play anything else. I have an Eve Online account and while Eve is full of eye candy and things to do, Sins is so much more fun on a straight play basis.
I also think it's easy to forget that any game that has the depth and amount of work in Sins is loved by its developers. I think the effort here shows you guys recognized a diamon in the rough and valued it too. Kudos! Really cool community. We need video chat during combat in-game so we can make it personal
Sorry for my absence. Many things have happened since my last view.
From what i can see most of the new patch optimizations are data related, and like what was said in the exe. My diplomacy games dont go over 1.3 gigs with the new beta patch.
No changes were made to the textures from what i can see. Still TGA's, and possibly still the same particle/entity file problems. I wont know until i can see them for myself (if harpo updates his tools for the new patches) If no changes to the textures/particles occur then that is where we will take over, and update TSOP for the latest sins patch's. That is of course if it is needed.
major stress, the text bin gui from 1.191 is FULLY operational with the latest beta of diplomacy, and I have even tested it with the beta creating a personal reference set if all the latest version files from sins, entrenchment AND the diplomacy beta without ANY errors or fail to converts.
FYI--Multiple Starts Graphic Mod 0.3 that is supposedly synced with TSOp does one of two things in the Diplomacy beta for me. If TSOP is installed and then the MSGM is stacked on to it...minidump. If I install MSMG and then TSOP...TSOP overwrites and the galaxy cloud effect is still there.
The MSGM I installed was the one stated it had been made to work with TSOP.
...and "Hi" Major Stress...long time no see.
That's an issue for the MSGM thread.
If TSOP has problems with the new beta, that will be an issue for us. Can you use TSOP alone on the Beta?
Yes--TSOP has worked with the beta so far with no seeming issues. It would also be nice is TSOP could include the the same sort of graphics changes as are found in MSGM as they do affect performance but don't enhance play (hint hint). So far as I understand it, only about three texture files are involved?
I agree most people like the galaxy fix and it does increase performance a little. It is not hard to do it yourself now though. http://soase.weebly.com/spiral-galaxy-fix.html
I have not tried the mod because I already have it done so you should look at the files to see whats different from the mod to my tutorial. I think boshimi did not reduce the planet icon size like I did. I am also not testing beta.
It will be a while before i sift through the new patch files to see what exactly was done (or not done). I tested a few games with the beta patch, and i am pretty impressed with the performance considering that no texture changes were made (as far as i can see). Memory usage remained surprisingly low as well on max settings. Lag is still there, but it happens later in game than before. So IC is doing something right. I just dont know what they did. I am not a code monkey
If 1.2 does improve the game the way it is intended then i can see TSOP being used to help the very low end system users (netbooks with the UI mod from another topic).
I like to play 10 player huge multi-star systems so I am sure I will still need TSOP. As you stated, there is still late game lag.
TSOP adds extra oomph and the more oomph available, the longer this game will be a classic. I swear I read some dev blog saying some planet textures were fixed in the beta.
sin-imperium, I do not doubt that you remember seeing that, BUT all texture dates are before 18 march 2010, and NO planet textures are in the diplomacy beta textures folder.
No Mesh files were changed, or altered. Which means all of the errors, typos, and anomalys that the TSOP team found over time are still present in the game with the beta patches.
No Particle files were changed, or altered. Same as above, but add on references to missing textures still present.
No Textures were changed at all. Which means all of the inefficient TGA'a are still present. TGA also doesnt utilize the DDS formats mip mapping ability. Textures that the game no longer use are still in the textures folder, and there are textures missing that ether a particle, or mesh calls for which could cause some issues. Some textures are way to large IMO for the purpose they serve (especially for the particles). When reduced in resolution by half there is absolutely no visible difference in game, but save a ton of memory, and increase performance.
The GalaxyScenarioDef file was changed, and we did find some issues in there before (misspells, and the infamous "GuassCannon"). It might be worth a look again to see if those issues were corrected.
SoundEffects.sounddata was updated, again might be worth a look see.
All PipelineEffect files in the diplomacy beta folder have been changed. What was done i do not know. Possibly to eliminate the white line issue seen when using anti aliasing.
EnglishString has been changed obviously to correct some typos as mentioned in the change logs.
No files in the Window folder have been touched.
ConvertData, and the Diplomacy plus Dev exe's were obviously updated.
The only way i can see IC increasing the performance without altering any textures, particles, or meshes is by changing the EXE, and altering pipeline effects. I know nothing about the pipeline effects, what they do, or what each entry means.
With what i see so far TSOP should have no trouble running in the betas. Will test it myself to be sure.
If we want to help IC we should point out ALL of the errors, typos, and anomaly's we found when we did this project
It's like Tesla versus Edison all over again!
Good to see the summery of what appears to be changing. I had held off on doing more work to see what all was changing in the new patch.
It looks like I can proceed fixing the starbase meshes then....
Please post concerns on the MSGM forum. I have an idea on what might be wrong concerning the TSOP project but I will need some time to look into it, possibly later this week health and work depending (it's been crazy stupid recently and I've had medical issues that have needed looking into.) My thoughts are that it might circle around the Icons_planets.dds file in the TSOP compliant version of the mod. Please try taking the latest non-MSGM version of this file from the latest TSOP version, copy it over and see if this corrects the issue. If this DOES correct the issue I will look into it and release a fix. (With this only being the beta version I would like to clarify what the final 'optimized' versions will all be.)
This will likely be something I will need to look into in the DS mod as well. They worked pre-beta to the best of my knowledge. We will get it straightened out.
For future reference, please posts in the MSGM thread:
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/348205/
Okie--will do.
I suppose you wouldn't know if this mod would work with the latest version of the beta that came out today? I wouldn't mind reducing all the lag at late game.
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