It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
Blammo! That is the problem with the flipping faces on the SoA 2 models! On the Excelsior, Kvort, and a few other meshes the cones are not cylindrically mapped. they are planiar mapped from the side. This is on top of the other issues tobiwhan discussed.
on the few models i specifically built for Sins there hasnt been much issue. I try to UV map with as few shared sections as possible. The SoA 2 Ambassador is a perfect example. Most of that model is cylindrically UV mapped. The rest is planiar where it is obvious. The only shared UV coordinates are the warp nacelles, but i see no issues with them.
The other 3rd party models share tons of UV coordinates, and used cloned half sections that share a half texture. Not to mention they are open with tons of intersecting polys. No wonder there is a ton of issues.
I am making small balance modification to game, could I use Your Optimization Project as basis? Modifying it's files is more optimal, easier and faster then making separate mod and trying to make it compatible...
Your answer is towards the bottom of the OP.
Didn't notice last paragraph
Ok then, very good
TSOP is an open project. which means the community is more than welcome to use it for whatever they need from it. The community is also more than welcome to add to TSOP if they find better ways to optimize, and reduce late game lag in Sins.
Hello everyone
A friend and I used this mod last night and played all but a NON laggy game and it was AWESOME! Unfortunately... our star bases could not be upgraded at all. Any thoughts on the bug?
Add-On's, and Patches
TSOP 0.07 E, and D UI Texture fix
it is in the main post. Please read. I also included the fix in the trinity v0.071 download.
Thanks much
Not entirely sure if you guys have looked into this, I don't mean to sound redundant but I wasn't willing to browse through 35 pages of posts to see if someone had already looked into this. I've been playing this game and world of warcraft and recently I was brought to the attention of this nifty little program
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112556
The poster's claim is that this program can enable an application to become "large address aware". According to the poster an application that has been given this feature can access up to 3GB on a 32-bit operating system or 4GB on a 64-bit operating system. There are no modifications necessary to allow a 64-bit OS user to enable to feature but for 32-bit OS users you have to tweak the parameters of certain files. (The instructions are included in the linked post). I figured I'd drop the post and the link to see if you guys be able to make good use of it and if it does what it says it does hopefully others can benefit from this as well. I don't know if I'll be testing it on SoaSE for awhile but I will be testing it on World of Warcraft as my game has been experiencing a crash issue similar to the crash issues that have affected this game.
Yes many times. The consensus is it does not work. Search the modding forum for LAA. Nice try though.
I have to admit sins never crashed on me but gave me error messages saying that the ambient loop sound file could not be played because of an out of memory error (running with dev logging on)The thing is, I get this error when sins only consumes 1,8 GB of memory and I zoom towards a planet (where I should here the elevator sound)
Any Ideas why?
Can you give com specs and game settings? Seems strange that only that sound causes it. Mods running? Ent or Dip?
Diplomacy, running the B5 Mod.
Comp:MacPro Mid 2010 6-Core @ 3.33 GHz, Radeon HD5870 1024 GB, 6 GB Ram, Win7 64 Bit
Well I guess it's about time I try out your mod. I will see if I can recreate the problem. I have Vista 32 3gig ram and while my huge maps lag terribly late game I have never crashed or had sounds chop like some or your problem.
Wow, nice system.
Thanks, I've been saving money for it for a long time! And then it still made me sweat to put all that money up just for a computer. But I've already made back quarter of it with graphics works.
PS.: Enjoy the mod, but remember, it's still PreAlpha (i.e. not feature complete) though we have some good models I must say.
i'm the one who first posted it here on the sins forum, and i can assure you it really does work.
We've got many a save game where it crashes, and simply applying this fix to all players solves the problem (otherwise, only those with the fix stop crashing)
If you get crashes even after applying this fix, then its something else causing your crashes (unstable machine or something) or more likely, they did the mod on a 32 bit OS and didnt modify the OS files to boost the amount of address space available to LAA programs.
i think the TSOP is a great way to fix the memory limitations AND the performance boosts, while the LAA fix is quicker, easier, and solves the address space crashes only. They dont even go for the same goals, merely overlapping in potential cures for the minidumps.
Personally i run the TSOP + LAA fix and have a very nice time playing sins because of it.
Bug report: running 0.7 with the missing SB icon fix, starbase trade at stars is broken - 0 income.
Works in planetary systems fine, works fine without the mod enabled.
Running in diplomacy if that helps.
Thats strange as we did not change anything that I know of that would effect that. I will test it out tomorrow if I have time. Thanks for the heads up.
We probably will not update until the devs release the patch though. Should be soon I hope.
That's a game issue not a mod issue.
I thought so, thanks Ryat.
musta broke since the last patch, it used to work fine
ah well, thanks for the quick reply.
Dont miss this thread I posted for the patch
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/403793/get;2885272
edit: posted in the wrong spot somehow.
For reference in case anyone is interested.
Multiple Stars Graphics Mod have been revised from v0.2 to v0.3.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/348205/
So has anyone here looked into the new beta models? Supposedly they are optimized and fixed to some degree. Just wondered at the similarities.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account