It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
On the DMG forums Fileosoft suggested MeshLab as a free program to check models for errors. Not being a modeler, I never tried it, but apparently it works.
I did not even notice any deleted faces. I was concentrating on the artifacts. I will have a look.
Soooo, does this mean the mines will be fine?
not sure yet but the scenes are good. OBJ is good to send to ppl with no 3DS max
PlanetModule_TechDeepSpaceMine.mesh
was NumVertices 2052
now NumVertices 1019
Here is the scene ModuleTechDeepSpaceMine.exp
Great job Siv
In game shot
The deleted face issue only happens on a random few models. only 3 so far out of the many in SoA 2. This issue happened in xsi 6.0 as well. I do think its an error that happens inside convertXSI. I use the direct x "MView" model viewer to check the meshes for errors, and fix if needed. I also have a litany of other programs to check the meshes for errors. They come up clean in all of them. So it has to be an error on the conversion to sins mesh.
I am now starting to coin up a term for this... Port, and Pray. Porti it over, and pray that it works correctly :/ If XSI 6.0 worked in windows 7 we wouldnt even be having this discussion.
ModuleTechDeepSpaceMine.exp
SpaceMine_PhaseExplosive.mesh
was NumVertices 834
now NumVertices 564
SpaceMine_PhaseExplosive.exp
SupportShip_PsiMine.mesh
was NumVertices 813
now NumVertices 289
SupportShip_PsiMine.exp
SivCorp
Can someone please test this mesh to see if it fix's the torp tube problem Klingon Battle Cruiser. Sorry you'll have to change the name as that eluded me at the time, and I don't have the texture files. Thanks.
Good deal!
So can we just drop these into the mod mesh folder? That would be easy
And any further meshes I will put into .obj format for ease of importation.
So, what next?
Well the starbases can use to lose some weight. Especially the advent SB.. It needs some digital "slimfast"
Light Frigares and Long Range Frigates are very numerous. Maybe have a look to see how bad they are.
The 3DS Max scenes are good Siv, I like the option of importing the mesh points but obj is good if its easier on ya. I had to move the mesh points on the advent mine but a couple I can do by hand.
The main combat units of sins seem pretty reasonable poly count wise. Frigates average 1500-2k. There are a few 3k frigates (cruisers), but they are "acceptable", because you dont see very many of them used. The largest cap ship is around 4500 tris. Again that is acceptable. We really dont want to screw around with the main player controlled units of sins.
The focus should be on the high poly NPC, and Structures IMO. The stuff that is NOT focused on in game, and should have no reason to be such a high poly count. Hangar Defense is one of them. Its count is pretty high, and the AI spams the hell out of them.
I do think the Starbases themselves should be a priority, because they are the highest poly units in the game right now. With a fully upgraded advent base is over 12000 tri's! WTF were they thinking putting a unit with this high of a count in game that the AI builds one at EVERY planet it owns? The Tech, and Vasari bases combined dont reach that count. I am all for eye candy, but not if it effects framerates even on the best cards.
Holy crap =O I put 4 of those at every sun and do the full culture upgrades when I'm addy. No wonder I lose the capability to look at the stuff around the suns about 3/4 of the way into the game lol
Edit: Also, congratulations on the subjugation of the biggest data spam the cruel/vicious comps like to unleash. I'm definately looking forward to the Starbase weight loss program =D (also kinda wish there was a mod to make mor abilities for them but, stupid hard code and such -.-;, unless someone could make another collapsed window into another botton like a "next page" button inside the upgrades menu but that'd still probably fight with the hard code >.> *end of rant*) so yeah, slimmed star bases sounds very nice =3
Looking forward to having the mines trimmed a bit as well. Just played two games with 86 planets. In one case the AI went mine crazy and had lag for most of the game. In the other the AI kept mines to a minimum. Only had lag when I popped out 1225 scouts.
Interesting mesh issues you managed to 'solve'. It reminds we why I started that Max mesh tool in the first place (I didn't want to deal with all those complications and bad interfaces).
How are the tangents of your new mines working out? The tangents in convertXSI or whatever are made in a kinda strange way (after you learn to do them via tangent space calculation its strange to just use the RGB values of a second set of UVs).
I would assume they are similar to the original right?
Unfortunately when you import a Sins mesh into 3dsmax the tangent data is lost. So new tangents must be made in XSI. So far it has been no trouble with the way Sins meshes are UV mapped. For the optimized models I just duplicate the UV's, Assign tangents to the second set, and leave it alone. Never had a problem. Mesh looks like nothing was changed from the original.
Sins meshes are UV mapped in a way i have never seen before. Every group, or section has its own UV map. Even where you would think "why didnt they just mirror this section of the mesh?". Look at the Vasari trade ship for an example.
This may be why we also are having such trouble with 3rd party meshes. Because most modelers. Myself included, mirror sections of their mesh to save time.
My max tools keeps both the UVs intact on import. (This means tangents would have the same source when exporting but its not that important as you mentioned).
When you say "every group or section" what aspect are you looking from? Because when you import via Stannums 3ds script (or mine) it has to use the 'UV shells' to make the geometery (because thats how its stored in the mesh format).
And er... that trade ship dosn't even have any tangents lol. But yeah theres a lot of unessesary UVing in there so im guessing that it was just a algorithim based UV shell sorting I.e. the hard part is the UV shell layout with all those shapes so just let the computer do it and do some extra copy and pasting in photoshop.
When you export from max can you export 1 or the other of the UV maps? assuming when you mention both UV's you mean both UV maps.
So say if you want export to Obj. , which unless I am mistaken can only handle 1 set of UV's at a time, you could export the model Twice out of Max, once with each UV set and then merge them in SoftImage and delete 1 model after making a copy of its UV set for use with the 1 that's left.
I guess, I never tried it though since I just export to .mesh with the tool.
Annoying Pacts Bug
gameplay.constants fix for Diplomacy 1.011
Place this file in the Mods GameInfo folder.
Thanks Z
We should have this in the DIP version
Progress Update:
I've started on the starbases.... and yeah - the advent is crazy. Original is 6424 Verts!!! I've got under 1/4th of it done, and it is already at 3758 Verts. Looks like we may gain more than expected from starbase optimization
damnit! I told them a thousand times to stop polishing the things. They're shiny enough! Next idiot out there with a spray bottle and a rag, shoot them immediately!! the shine is screwing with the monitors! lol (they really are the shiniest of the 3 starbases, too much reflection lol)
lol the more curvy the model is the more poly's it'll have
I know, still looks too shiny tho, like a giant floating thing that's saucer shaped and shiny with strange pretrusions...man what's the thing I'm thinkin of >.o
Good to see this is rolling along very well. I agree with MajorStress, leave the main combat ships alone model wise, focus on structures and npc objects. Also, try not to rag on IronClad too much, they gave us a great game and we in turn are trying to help them out also.
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