It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
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Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
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Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
Hi everybody. i tested the diplomacy version with a few friends, and we found a bug. I don't know if it had always been listed.U have not read every page from the topic.
The icon for developping option in the starbase is missing. I ran test on the same mission with a save, which is loaded with and without the mod.
Here are some screen showing the bug.
Diplomacy
Diplomacy with Mod
Is there a list of bug already found ?
This bug has already been fixed. Download this.
Read the main topic much? fix is up there. Right above your post
I fixed that problem almost immediately after the 0.07 release when peeps started noticing it. That was a facepalm moment when i used an original sins texture for entrenchment/diplomacy.
Got my modeling programs re-installed. time to import some mines.
How about an ingame logo so people can title there mod in the string file. Here is a couple ideas and Im open to more.
myfist0 has a valid point.
Doesn't need to be crazy fancy, would prefer it wasn't. BTW, sins now runs on low enough resources I can run it on my buddy's ATOM 3 netbook for a good 40 minutes before it locks the system up on low settings 1 vs 1. Very neat little thing that is.
Heres the one for my mod
@SivCorp and Major Stress : Sorry men, next time i will take more time to read.
@ myfist0soo am i the only one thinking 'we were hoping this would be turned into a patch right'so if we would add that, wouldent that sort of make it not-'this will now be a patch'-able?
ps. cant we just ASK the devs how the hell we can turn the mod into a patch ?
The Devs will not use this AS-IS. They are more likely to use this as a guide to what needs patching.
Agreed.
ah, roger that myfist0, then regard my comment withdrawn, and i agree with a keeping the marking small.
maybe the 'optimised' from your own mod ?
How i see the Dev's using TSOP (This is just speculation. Not fact)...
They will probably convert all of the vanilla sins textures to DDS format. They "may" reduce the size of some particle textures. Along with some of the ridiculous sized textures like the starbases.
They definitely should use what we did with the particle, and entity code. along with the bad file fix's. They may, or may not reduce polys on some frequently used meshes that are over 3000 tri's (builders, trade ships, etc.).
What we did so far can be considered "extreme" optimization from the Dev's point of view. We made sins stop using over 2 gigs of ram, and reduced the usage down to 1.5 gigs for Diplomacy (on maximum settings). The Dev's may settle for 1.7 to 1.8 gigs for an "official" patch.
I like the idea for the logo's, but for now lets keep it in the string file.
Major Stress, could you place what you just posted in the OP as a 'realistic' mission statement? I think what you just said is a very realistic view.
Wow, this is amazing. I am new here, just got the game yesterday, and I was directed here (normally dont like using mods). I know nothing about computers, so when I read your post about the problems and what you did to fix them, I was flabbergasted. I think you are amazing. And I think it is a crying shame that people like you have to do this, volunteering, when actually the producers should be doing this (or giving you renumeration). In any case, thank you!
One question: Can I continute my saved games with this (Trinity vanilla) if I install it and try to load, or will my saved games be lost?
thank you
its compatible, you shouldnt lose any saves, and you should be able to view replays with it.
mind you, you do lose a little bit... but considering your rig, i think this will be great for you.
I dont see why saves shouldnt be compatible between Vanilla, and TSOP. TSOP is Vanilla sins, but much easier on your system. So saves, and replays should be interchangeable. Only way to find out for sure is to test it, and see. If it does fail then we need to find out why.
Boshimi It already is in the main topic in the mod description. Like i said my over-enthusiasm got the better of me. It wont happen again. We are staying true to Vanilla, and not altering any gameplay, and/or balancing.
saves are not affected, even if you make major changes to stats or sizes of units sins will alow you to load your save ( this i found out after i made my own foundy ships 40.4% bigger, game would still load no problem )
Your saves are fine, but do note that replays will NOT work with different versions of TSOP, or any other mod or update - it will minidump.
Sorry, me again. I'm a computer idiot. I DLed the package, unzipped it, and read the readme. I am confused on *exactly* what to do. I am sure that with a little work, I will find where my appdata is (using Win7, German, so everything is called different I think), but my question is this: There are 3 packages, OS, E, and D. I have Trinity. I am unsure if I need to install all 3, or only D. Would you mind being so kind and helping an idiot out? Thank you.
Trinity is all 3 games in 1 package. If you play Diplomacy which is the last expansion you would place the TSOP D in the Mods-Diplomacy v1.011 folder eg
C:\Users\myfist0\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Diplomacy v1.011\Sins Optimization Project D
AppData is hidden but unhiding folders in 7 is different than Vista
http://soase.weebly.com/placing-mods.html
The E is for Entrenchment
C:\Users\myfist0\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.051\
and OS is original sins
C:\Users\myfist0\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-v1.191\
Thank you. Got it now.
I've noticed a couple of anomolies with this thing running. Maybe it's me and I'm just new.
The first is, some buttons are black. (Like the button for upgrading starbases. At least for me. I'm playing Trinity, TEC. The button in the top right corner of the action grid is black, but the mouse-over is correct for upgrading.)
Second, my player color has switched. In the top, it is still me in blue, but all of my ships are green. I've gone back to "options" and reset it to blue, and quit and restarted, but every time I reload, I'm green.
Lastly (so far), all my fleets are still composed of the same ships, but their order is all screwed, and I cannot get the capital ships to be the first unit displayed in the fleet. I had my two main fleets set to ctrl-1 and ctrl-2, and now these both, when I hit 1 or 2, show me a standard cruiser. I cannot seem to change it, even when I make a new fleet, it always gives me some uninteresting dude as the first in the fleet group (empire tree), even if I can get the "chevron" over my capital, which is annoying because I'm used to flipping between fleets with 1 or 2 and getting my capital ship's card and abilites.
EDIT: Hmn, now that I have tried to re-load a different save, it seems that the main viewing screen will not show the image of any item selected. No matter what item I select, it only shows a picture of my faction. I don't think I'll be able to play with this....
Any tips? thank you much
From the Main Post
TSOP 0.07 E, and D UI Texture fix
Fixes missing Starbase Upgrade icons in Entrenchment, and Diplomacy.
Yes I did notice saved games will work but it does mess up the fleet tree. TAB switches the fleet leader, look for the lighter box while using tab.
Best to just start fresh.
Thank you. I did not realize that required an extra update, I thought that was "built in". I had actually deactivated the mod briefly and my fleet is still green. I started a new game and my fleet is STILL green, even though I switched the template a couple of times. Did I break something? thank you
huuuge radio silence here.
soo, did anyone have those landmines? are they easy to merge with the main mod?
I said I would import to XSI and remake the mesh file but I got no response.
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